Big brake kits BBK’s

[M-Sport fan]

I run RBF600 all year with no issues - works well enough for me...

How often do you flush it out completely, and replace with new, once a year, or much less often??

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yeah I don't really understand what you're talking about. My ABS works fine. I flush it frequently so water/moisture isn't an issue. My car isn't daily driven. I don't put Type 200 in my street cars haha. That would be a waste of money.

Just what I had heard from some members on here over the years as concerning our ABS/ESC/whatever needing an LV brake fluid to function as designed, that's all.

I am GLAD to hear that you've had no problems with those systems, as I want to use the Typ 200 for STREET use, so that I do NOT have to flush it out as often as either any pure racing fluids (Ate claims it is good for 2 years+ in most street scenarios), OR lesser DOT3/4/LV fluids require.
(It would NOT be a 'waste' for me since it is still less than half to a third the co$t of most pure racing fluids, and only slightly more than basic DOT3/4s.)

 

[shouldbeasy]

How often do you flush it out completely, and replace with new, once a year, or much less often??

Probably once a year. Do a full bleed before summer - hitting the 4 corners is easy when changing over tires.

No power bleeder needed, just keep the reservoir full / topped up and check after each pump (I think I got to 4 pumps before having to add more fluid to the reservoir and then kept going).

 

[MRX430]

So what would be the best bf on a high hp street car occasionally tracked and a lot of runs in “Mexico” ?

 

[shouldbeasy]

So what would be the best bf on a high hp street car occasionally tracked and a lot of runs in “Mexico” ?

I don't see any need to go above RBF660 but my knowledge of brake fluids isn't what it could be.

 

[WutApex]

Most of the pure racing, very high temp brake fluids (with the exception of the 'liquid gold' co$ting Castrol React) actually take on moisture MUCH quicker than even a 'pedestrian' street fluid like the Motorcraft OEM fill, despite their higher wet boiling points.
The logic/expectation is that it will be bled, and flushed out MUCH MORE often for a track use car (which it was designed for) than a street car owner would ever do, so hence, hygroscopicity is not a major concern with these companies (save for the Castrol, which does carry the highest WET boiling point available out there).

Oh, I'm definitely aware of the hygroscopic properties of these fluids - So two points: (a) I just sold the racecar so I have some available, and (b) I've also been on the big end of the straight with boiled fluid and if I can help it, that won't happen again...

I'm so used to bleeding brakes on the racecar (prior to every event, actually), it's no big deal using up my supply on the DD, knowing at least a springtime flush would be required - I do the same on the Cobra. I'm more concerned with your "proper ABS/nanny system functions" comment with the LV-type fluid - any empirical data on this? I just want to make sure the "they" you mentioned are reliable sources and have basis in those claims.
Don't take that as argumentative - I truly want to know

 

[CFRmotorsports]

So what would be the best bf on a high hp street car occasionally tracked and a lot of runs in “Mexico” ?

Rbf600 will do more then what you need it to 😊

 

[MRX430]

Rbf600 will do more then what you need it to 😊

That’s what’s been in it so good to know 👍

 

[M-Sport fan]

Oh, I'm definitely aware of the hygroscopic properties of these fluids - So two points: (a) I just sold the racecar so I have some available, and (b) I've also been on the big end of the straight with boiled fluid and if I can help it, that won't happen again...

I'm so used to bleeding brakes on the racecar (prior to every event, actually), it's no big deal using up my supply on the DD, knowing at least a springtime flush would be required - I do the same on the Cobra. I'm more concerned with your "proper ABS/nanny system functions" comment with the LV-type fluid - any empirical data on this? I just want to make sure the "they" you mentioned are reliable sources and have basis in those claims.
Don't take that as argumentative - I truly want to know

I believe that it was @D1JL, and a few others who have brought this up in the past, and maybe they will chime in.
IF I were open tracking my car, especially with upped power levels, and gumball tires, I would use one of the pure racing fluids anyway.
But since it is solely a street car for me, I was concerned with using a non-LV DOT 4, but do want to use the Typ200 for it's superior anti-hygroscopic properties, when not bleeding/flushing it out every month.

Did CMC racing just get way too prohibitive in cost (the reason for selling the race 'stang)??

 

[WutApex]

...Did CMC racing just get way too prohibitive in cost (the reason for selling the race 'stang)??

Couple reasons:
1. I'm in the middle of my graduate studies and can't make any of the races
2. My work schedule (shift work in a 24/7 shop) meant I could only make a couple races a year - I can't compete with guys that hit every race weekend; many do track days or test & tunes in between race weekends too. And when they win, they get contingency money for tires, etc which means they are always on fresh rubber. (Not to mention those top three guys are fast as hell!)
3. And of course money played into it too. The price of the car wasn't bad, but the consumables added up over time, especially tires. I also don't have the mechanical expertise to tweak the car to the nth degree (especially for different tracks and changing conditions), so I either payed a race shop to help out within my budget or I most of the time just run what I brung.

I'm gonna miss it - nothing more exciting than we all pull holeshots
during a standing start and come into the first couple turns three wide, fighting for position.

 

[Economatic]

Great discussion here and very timely as I'm looking to do a brake upgrade soon. I'm hoping some of the members here with experience with BBK setups specific to the FiST can clarify a few things for me.

First...some background on what I'm doing with my FiST. It's my DD but I also plan to do around 5-6 track days a year. I did my first track day in October on a cool day with upgraded pads on the stock brakes. They performed well but the last session of the day when I was starting to get a bit faster the stock brakes started to discolor from the heat so I know I'll need to do a BBK soon. I don't plan to keep the car long term (3-4 years?) or do any other performance upgrades to the car. That said, I'm thinking of getting a middle of the road BBK like Wilwood or V-MAXX. My firm requirement is clearing the stock wheels without ridiculous spacers. I have a preference for no spacers but I would compromise and do ~10mm spacer if needed for a quality kit. And I have specific questions...

Wilwood: I've read a lot about how these are just budget BBKs and I've also read plenty of horror stories. But those could be overblown because Wilwood has so many kits out there for so many cars. I know all about the issue of no dust boots and would plan to rebuild the calipers each winter. It sounds like these clear my wheels no problem so that's a plus. But what about rotors and pads? Are they standard sizes where I can buy other brands? And I've read about rotors cracking and needing to be replaced often...but there are a few different options that hit many price points. I'm wondering if the high quality/expensive rotors are up to the task of track days. My biggest concern is an all out failure at the track like a seized piston where I'm a 2 hour drive away from home and I don't trailer the car.

V-MAXX: I really like what I've read about this kit on the forum with the exception of the tapered pad issue. Minor in my opinion especially with the removable bridge to quickly swap pads. But what about wheel clearance? Anyone try to fit these with the stock 17'' wheels? If anything I can shoot Ron at Whoosh Motorsports to see if he has any insight. I suppose I could print out one of those wheel fitment templates but that can easily go wrong with printer scaling or user error.

Stoptech: I almost pulled the trigger on this kit when I found a sale for $1,500 on Sunday night. I've run Stoptechs in the past on a Subaru and had no complaints. But after more research it sounds like a spacer of around 20mm would be required, right? Or I'd have to get a different wheelset and that is a non-starter for me.

Others(?): I'm trying to keep the price under around $1,500 so that kicks out the top tier options like Alcon, AP, & EBC. I think there are a couple other options as well (Ksport?) but I'm back into big spacers and I haven't found many reviews on those.

Sorry for the wall of text and all the questions but I'm hoping some of the track rats here can chime in on some my specific questions, especially with the Wilwoods. Thanks!

 

[MRX430]

Joe of 2JRacing runs the Willies with Spec37’s on his track FiST.

 

[Economatic]

Joe of 2JRacing runs the Willies with Spec37’s on his track FiST.

Yes! I actually saw that in a previous post and noticed on the 2J Racing website you can request those rotors. Although I was slightly confused after digging around on the Wilwood site and I believe the normal slotted and drilled rotors are more expensive than the Spec 37 ones. Perhaps I need to contact 2J Racing...

 

[MRX430]

Yes! I actually saw that in a previous post and noticed on the 2J Racing website you can request those rotors. Although I was slightly confused after digging around on the Wilwood site and I believe the normal slotted and drilled rotors are more expensive than the Spec 37 ones. Perhaps I need to contact 2J Racing...

I think it’s an extra $150 per end or something close.

 

[kevinatfms]

Great discussion here and very timely as I'm looking to do a brake upgrade soon. I'm hoping some of the members here with experience with BBK setups specific to the FiST can clarify a few things for me.

First...some background on what I'm doing with my FiST. It's my DD but I also plan to do around 5-6 track days a year. I did my first track day in October on a cool day with upgraded pads on the stock brakes. They performed well but the last session of the day when I was starting to get a bit faster the stock brakes started to discolor from the heat so I know I'll need to do a BBK soon. I don't plan to keep the car long term (3-4 years?) or do any other performance upgrades to the car. That said, I'm thinking of getting a middle of the road BBK like Wilwood or V-MAXX. My firm requirement is clearing the stock wheels without ridiculous spacers. I have a preference for no spacers but I would compromise and do ~10mm spacer if needed for a quality kit. And I have specific questions...

Wilwood: I've read a lot about how these are just budget BBKs and I've also read plenty of horror stories. But those could be overblown because Wilwood has so many kits out there for so many cars. I know all about the issue of no dust boots and would plan to rebuild the calipers each winter. It sounds like these clear my wheels no problem so that's a plus. But what about rotors and pads? Are they standard sizes where I can buy other brands? And I've read about rotors cracking and needing to be replaced often...but there are a few different options that hit many price points. I'm wondering if the high quality/expensive rotors are up to the task of track days. My biggest concern is an all out failure at the track like a seized piston where I'm a 2 hour drive away from home and I don't trailer the car.

V-MAXX: I really like what I've read about this kit on the forum with the exception of the tapered pad issue. Minor in my opinion especially with the removable bridge to quickly swap pads. But what about wheel clearance? Anyone try to fit these with the stock 17'' wheels? If anything I can shoot Ron at Whoosh Motorsports to see if he has any insight. I suppose I could print out one of those wheel fitment templates but that can easily go wrong with printer scaling or user error.

Stoptech: I almost pulled the trigger on this kit when I found a sale for $1,500 on Sunday night. I've run Stoptechs in the past on a Subaru and had no complaints. But after more research it sounds like a spacer of around 20mm would be required, right? Or I'd have to get a different wheelset and that is a non-starter for me.

Others(?): I'm trying to keep the price under around $1,500 so that kicks out the top tier options like Alcon, AP, & EBC. I think there are a couple other options as well (Ksport?) but I'm back into big spacers and I haven't found many reviews on those.

Sorry for the wall of text and all the questions but I'm hoping some of the track rats here can chime in on some my specific questions, especially with the Wilwoods. Thanks!

From your description of the event you could probably beef up the stock brake package and be good to go. Throw some ducting on it(this is so important and not many people think about it), braided lines, high temp fluid and a more aggressive set of pads(depending on what youre running now?).

Grab some rotor temp strips and see what the brake temps look like before/after and see. You would be surprised at what a little work can accomplish on the stock system.

If youre set on buying a brake kit no matter what, the Wilwood system is extremely nice and fits under the stock wheels without spacers. Pad selection is also best in the business for aftermarket kits short of Brembo.

With that, if you do go with Wilwoods, i still suggest investing in ducting or adding air deflectors to bring more air through the rotor hat/wheel bearing/hub area.

 

[WutApex]

Yup - upgraded pads, fluid, and ducting would likely suffice for most, even for occasional track use.

From my perspective through years of open tracking and racing, I don't see too many people running Wilwoods and even less so with the W2W crowd.

 

[Economatic]

Thanks guys, this is great info

I didn't even think about the temp strips to get an idea of how hot things are getting. I'll definitely buy some of those no matter what I set up I run.

I'm definitely not set on a BBK. My initial plan was to just keep everything stock with upgraded fluid and use track pads, and expect to burn through rotors and do regular caliper rebuilds. Just trying to balance the overall costs of each option, time I'll have to spend replacing and fixing things, and of course safety.

I worked with Ken at KNS Brakes to get pads for my first track day. He asked some other FiST owners and recommended Hawk DTC-60 front and HP Plus rear. He also suggested I upgrade the fluid but I just didn't have time before the track day. Even with the stock fluid there was minimal fade but the car was damn near brand new--the odo rolled to 1,000 miles on my way to the track that day. Overall, I was really impressed how the stock brakes with upgraded pads performed. But...this was also my first time tracking a FWD car and the learning curve was steep. It was after the last session that day that the front calipers were starting to turn brown (not bad, just at the bottom where they touch the pads) and the paint on the back of the pads was flaking. The dust boots didn't melt though.

I don't want to do ducting so I can keep the fog lights but I am planning on deflectors, removing the heat shields, and then wrapping things with reflective tape. Not sure how much I'll benefit from that but I'm guessing it'll be better than nothing.

Hmm...still undecided. I'm leaning towards keep it the way it is and gather some data with temp strips and the deflectors then reassess after the track day in March. I might need another round of opinions from you guys in a month

 

[MRX430]

Brake kit now stateside. 👌

 

[MRX430]

Brake kit now stateside. 👌

Edit: They shipped from California lol

 

[MRX430]

So I am having the Ford ABS bleed procedure done. My last brake setup with Mountune pads, Mountune ss lines and RBF 600 fluid didn’t feel like I thought it should.
So having this done removes any possibility there is air in the system. I wanted peace of mind and also wanted to be able to remark solely based on the performance of the kit without question.