Big brake kits BBK’s

[MRX430]

I also wanted to say that anyone buying/installing this kit should seek out Joe@2Jracing or Mitch@CP-E with any questions.

 

[Economatic]

A few days ago I emailed Wilwood about what rotors and pads to use with their kits. It took a while but they finally got back to me today and the response is interesting. Basically, they said what I need is more of a race oriented setup and sent me to one of their dealers that has kits with custom hardware to fit 13'' rotors. And the Plus 3 option uses FSL calipers with thicker 13'' rotors. Reading the descriptions of the kits explains why some people have reported problems with the entry-level Wilwood kit.

https://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/fiesta/kits-24/

 

[TDavis]

Sure. I have the StopTech 83.343.4300.71 Front Big Brake Kit along with the Ford Focus SVT rear caliper brackets and StopTech 126.61074SL/SR rear slotted rotors. I use StopTech 309.06090 Street Performance Front Brake Pads in the front and StopTech 309.08860 Street Performance Rear Brake Pads in the rear for track. The front pads cost $64.15 rear pads are $50.99 on Amazon. I paid around $220.00 online for the rear rotors. Front replacement rings are extremely expensive but after two seasons, they’re still fine. I’ve been using Type 200 fluid since the car was new. I also built custom ducts, which you can see on my build page. I’d have to confirm with my logbook, but I likely have over 25 track hours on these brakes along with trips to/from the tracks toting my little tire trailer. In all that time, I’ve changed the front pads twice and rear pads four times. Crazy.

My home tracks are Road Atlanta, Barber and Atlanta Motorsports Park. To give an idea of my pace, I usually run around 1:46 at Road Atlanta on 200TW tires. Spec Miata is a bit quicker at around 1:43. Aero and lateral grip are the car's biggest problems at the moment. AMP is brutal on brakes because it's technical and there isn’t a long straight to cool them. Before the BBK upgrade I’d suffer fade after 2-2.5 hot laps at AMP. I never pushed above 7/10 there or Barber because fade came on quick. With the current brake setup, I can easily run my sessions as fast as I'm mentally comfortable going, without concern for brake issues. I usually get at least one to two laps at 10/10 if I grid early.
Adding a Limited Slip Diff (I have the MFactory from Whooshmotorsports) significantly reduces brake stress as well. Torque Vectoring cannot be disabled in this car. Without the LSD my front brakes would constantly fight for traction at turn exit. I have no idea how I tracked this car without a LSD for so long.

Here’s the bad part: The brakes are huge. You have to run a 17” wheel at minimum. Most 4x108 wheels won’t fit without custom spacers. TDavis is running the Stoptech kit and proved Team Dynamics 1.2 will fit without spacers. Maybe he will comment with the exact specs. I have a few sets of wheels and all required spacers, which I had custom made by Motorsport-Tech.com. There is more detail about this on my build page as well. I would prefer a 16” wheel and more tire but it is impossible with this BBK. The cost of consumables is simply too good to justify a change. If you have any other questions, please let me know.

You use Street or Sport performance for the Rear Stoptech pads? I ask because you said street performance but gave a Sport performance part#

 

[Woods247]

You use Street or Sport performance for the Rear Stoptech pads? I ask because you said street performance but gave a Sport performance part#

I use whatever the part numbers translate too. They changed the name at some point.

 

[TDavis]

I use whatever the part numbers translate too. They changed the name at some point.

Gotcha, looks like I'll be getting some of them. Still on stock Ford rear pads and need to change soon

 

[Economatic]

I just wanted to give a quick update on my setup for those who might go down the path of a BBK. I ended up going with a Wilwood kit specifically for the FiST so I could use my factory wheels. When I ordered the kit I also got Spec 37 rotors, Polymatrix E pads, and an extra set of rotor hats so I can have separate rotors and pads for street vs track days.

I installed the kit about 3 weeks ago and have put both the street and track setups through their normal use. I'm up to about 1,000 miles total.

Street setup is great. The BP-10 (?) pads and blank rotors work well without a lot of dust and no noise. Initial bite with the pads is great. 100% happy with kit for this use and it looks great, filling in the wheels a bit better. My wife said the brakes look 'cute', so there's that.

The track setup got put through its paces yesterday at Oregon Raceway Park. I'm a member there now so it was an open track day where I got to put in as many laps as I wanted. I went through nearly 2 tanks of fuel and the car got a workout! Note that the car is completely stock aside from the BBK, Boomba deflectors for the brakes, lighter wheels and 340 treadwear tires. I ran the Polymatrix E pads with stock rear brakes with Hawk HP+ pads. There was really no thought process on the rear pads--just what KNS recommended last year with DTC-60 from pads on stock brakes. Here are my thoughts on the setup...

-Polymatrix E pads are have a ridiculous initial bite when cold. I'm too lazy to change pads at the track so I deal with my track setup on the 100 mile drive to/from the track. If you're not paying attention the bite will...well...bite you. Not good.
-The pads are also a bit too aggressive with some heat in them. It took a couple sessions to get used to how touchy they are. Apply the brakes too hard and ABS lets you know. I had an ass puckering moment when I was too heavy footed at the end of the straightaway at about 95 mph.
-Heat wasn't any issue at all but admittedly air temps were on the cool side at only around 65 for a high. I used heat strips on the calipers and they barely registered a change. That was a welcomed surprise after dealing with repeated overheated brakes at the same track on my '18 STI even on cool days.
-Front to rear brake balance isn't very good with the rear brakes hardly doing anything. Not really surprising as I didn't think they did enough even with the stock brakes.

Overall, I'm happy with the setup for my mostly stock car. I need to do some tweaking to get things dialed in better. Maybe I'll do the Gold Coast rear rotor upsizing kit with the factory calipers to get more from the rear brakes. I was also talking to an instructor at the track who runs Minis and was using his daily driver with Wilwoods yesterday. Surprisingly he was using BP-20 pads and they worked great for his Mini with similar power and weight. I might have to try those or a similar less aggressive pad if I continue to dislike the Polymatrix E's.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I just wanted to give a quick update on my setup for those who might go down the path of a BBK. I ended up going with a Wilwood kit specifically for the FiST so I could use my factory wheels. When I ordered the kit I also got Spec 37 rotors, Polymatrix E pads, and an extra set of rotor hats so I can have separate rotors and pads for street vs track days.

I installed the kit about 3 weeks ago and have put both the street and track setups through their normal use. I'm up to about 1,000 miles total.

Street setup is great. The BP-10 (?) pads and blank rotors work well without a lot of dust and no noise. Initial bite with the pads is great. 100% happy with kit for this use and it looks great, filling in the wheels a bit better. My wife said the brakes look 'cute', so there's that.

The track setup got put through its paces yesterday at Oregon Raceway Park. I'm a member there now so it was an open track day where I got to put in as many laps as I wanted. I went through nearly 2 tanks of fuel and the car got a workout! Note that the car is completely stock aside from the BBK, Boomba deflectors for the brakes, lighter wheels and 340 treadwear tires. I ran the Polymatrix E pads with stock rear brakes with Hawk HP+ pads. There was really no thought process on the rear pads--just what KNS recommended last year with DTC-60 from pads on stock brakes. Here are my thoughts on the setup...

-Polymatrix E pads are have a ridiculous initial bite when cold. I'm too lazy to change pads at the track so I deal with my track setup on the 100 mile drive to/from the track. If you're not paying attention the bite will...well...bite you. Not good.
-The pads are also a bit too aggressive with some heat in them. It took a couple sessions to get used to how touchy they are. Apply the brakes too hard and ABS lets you know. I had an ass puckering moment when I was too heavy footed at the end of the straightaway at about 95 mph.
-Heat wasn't any issue at all but admittedly air temps were on the cool side at only around 65 for a high. I used heat strips on the calipers and they barely registered a change. That was a welcomed surprise after dealing with repeated overheated brakes at the same track on my '18 STI even on cool days.
-Front to rear brake balance isn't very good with the rear brakes hardly doing anything. Not really surprising as I didn't think they did enough even with the stock brakes.

Overall, I'm happy with the setup for my mostly stock car. I need to do some tweaking to get things dialed in better. Maybe I'll do the Gold Coast rear rotor upsizing kit with the factory calipers to get more from the rear brakes. I was also talking to an instructor at the track who runs Minis and was using his daily driver with Wilwoods yesterday. Surprisingly he was using BP-20 pads and they worked great for his Mini with similar power and weight. I might have to try those or a similar less aggressive pad if I continue to dislike the Polymatrix E's.

How much all together was the BBK? And where did ya get it from?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[WutApex]

Nice review. I'm not familiar with Polymatrix E pads, but I'm surprised DTC60s were suggested...not usually recommend for a street car.
Do you have a before and after assessment of the Boomba deflectors? Obviously not as efficient as ducting, but have you noticed any noticable difference in brake fade?

 

[Economatic]

How much all together was the BBK? And where did ya get it from?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

It wasn't cheap considering the extra pads and rotors. I originally ordered the BBK with brake lines, Spec 37 rotors, and then the Polymatrix E pads and it came to around $1,100 at Summit with a coupon. Then after getting it installed I realized it would be a huge pain in the ass to swap over the rotors and hats so another set of hats was $230. 20/20 hindsight I would have skipped that expense. I wanted spares to change out quickly after I read so many horror stories about cracked rotors. I have to wonder if those stories were from a lot higher HP cars with significant mods. From what I've seen so far this kit should work for my mostly stock car. But I'll share updates if anything goes wrong with this BBK.

Nice review. I'm not familiar with Polymatrix E pads, but I'm surprised DTC60s were suggested...not usually recommend for a street car.
Do you have a before and after assessment of the Boomba deflectors? Obviously not as efficient as ducting, but have you noticed any noticable difference in brake fade?

Unfortunately, I changed everything at once so I have no clue how much the Boomba deflectors helped. I doubt a lot but from one of their videos it does appear to move air around decently. I'll take any benefit when it comes to preventing brake fade.

The DTC-60 recommendation I got from KNS was for track days with the stock brakes. But you're right--those would have been awful for street driving. I got plenty of attention driving around on those pads with the terrible noises they make!

 

[WutApex]

I was actually looking at it from the perspective of using such aggressive pads on a street car. I'd expect these pads to be used for a B-Spec Fiesta or a World Challenge TCB, not a full interior ST that sees occasional track days. I'd be surprised if the DTC60 would even get within its optimum temperature range.

However, I'm certainly no expert on the topic so take my comments with a grain of salt. I freely admit I've never tracked my ST, nor any front wheel drive car for that matter so I don't know the limitations of the ST stock brake system. Although I'll probably take the ST to the track, it's my DD so I won't be near as hard on it as if were my track car or the race car, but I'll likely use temperature-indicating paint (which will only indicates the highest temp, not average) so at least I'll get a better idea of the temp range of the stock system for optimal pad selection.

Maybe step down to a Hawk Blue or HT-10, especially considering the weight of the ST. For my heavier Mustangs, I really liked the Raybestos ST-series pads. I've also been impressed with a little known company that makes brake pads, KFP. I even used them on the CMC. Maybe give them a call to see what they suggest. I know a couple Spec Miata guys that like the Carbotech pads but I have no experience with them.

Regardless, I'm willing to bet a lower friction pad that operates within your temp range would give you better modulation and would likely lead to more confidence in the braking zones. And as you know, true brake ducting and proper brake fluid offer incredible benefits that often allow you to run a slightly less aggressive pad.

 

[Economatic]

Thanks for the input, @WutApex . I'll definitely be doing more research on pad selection and talk to guys running similar cars to see what they use. I don't have a ton of track experience so I admit I have a lot to learn. Getting out there and figuring out what works is part of the fun.

As for the stock brake system, I was concerned about heat after the first day I tracked the FiST last September. After the last session of the day when I was finally getting comfortable with the car and faster I found the front calipers were already starting to turn brown.

 

[CFRmotorsports]

I was actually looking at it from the perspective of using such aggressive pads on a street car. I'd expect these pads to be used for a B-Spec Fiesta or a World Challenge TCB, not a full interior ST that sees occasional track days. I'd be surprised if the DTC60 would even get within its optimum temperature range.

However, I'm certainly no expert on the topic so take my comments with a grain of salt. I freely admit I've never tracked my ST, nor any front wheel drive car for that matter so I don't know the limitations of the ST stock brake system. Although I'll probably take the ST to the track, it's my DD so I won't be near as hard on it as if were my track car or the race car, but I'll likely use temperature-indicating paint (which will only indicates the highest temp, not average) so at least I'll get a better idea of the temp range of the stock system for optimal pad selection.

Maybe step down to a Hawk Blue or HT-10, especially considering the weight of the ST. For my heavier Mustangs, I really liked the Raybestos ST-series pads. I've also been impressed with a little known company that makes brake pads, KFP. I even used them on the CMC. Maybe give them a call to see what they suggest. I know a couple Spec Miata guys that like the Carbotech pads but I have no experience with them.

Regardless, I'm willing to bet a lower friction pad that operates within your temp range would give you better modulation and would likely lead to more confidence in the braking zones. And as you know, true brake ducting and proper brake fluid offer incredible benefits that often allow you to run a slightly less aggressive pad.

For what it’s worth, with our tq vectoring on the ST the dct60s will get within the optimal temp range if ran hard enough on a track that’s hard on brakes. That’s what I currently run on my fiesta

 

[Fusion Works]

I have cooked the BP-20s on the fronts. I built my own kit using a 12.88 x 1.10 rotor and a Superlite 6 caliper. In the rear I used a 12in rotor in the back with a stock caliper. Just wanted more rear rotor leverage. I turned the rear rotors bluish at Barber. The brakes held up fine, no fluid boiling, but there was pretty serious pad build up on the rotors. For a track car, DTC60 is definitely a good choice.

I have run DTC 60s and 70s on my race car with good success. Reality is if you are tracking the car, get 3in ducting to the front brakes. It will make the brakes better all around.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I have cooked the BP-20s on the fronts. I built my own kit using a 12.88 x 1.10 rotor and a Superlite 6 caliper. In the rear I used a 12in rotor in the back with a stock caliper. Just wanted more rear rotor leverage. I turned the rear rotors bluish at Barber. The brakes held up fine, no fluid boiling, but there was pretty serious pad build up on the rotors. For a track car, DTC60 is definitely a good choice.

I have run DTC 60s and 70s on my race car with good success. Reality is if you are tracking the car, get 3in ducting to the front brakes. It will make the brakes better all around.

I'm guessing that those Superlite 6 calipers will not work with a rotor size which could possibly fit under a 15" wheel, if not fit that size wheel with ANY size rotor, correct?

 

[Fusion Works]

Wilwood says it would fit on a 11.75 rotor.
https://www.wilwood.com/Images/Cali...Forged_Narrow_Superlite_6_Radial_Mt-cm-lg.jpg

It was picked because it fit the hydraulic ratio of the OE setup. Pedal feel is phenomenal.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yeah, sadly that's a 298mm rotor which will not fit under almost any 15" wheel, regardless of how the barrel and spokes are shaped, or the offset/spacers used.

 

[Fusion Works]

Whatcho Talkin Bout Willis? I can fit a four piston Wilwood Superlite 2A on an 11.75in rotor under a Team Dynamics 15x7in +30 and a Kosei K4R 15x8 +35 wheel easily. The newer calipers are actually smaller.

I think those might be a 12.19in rotor. That may be an experiment. The 11.75 actually fits better. These are 1.25in rotors. If you were tracking the car, I would run the heavy 11.75x.810 with the directional vanes. Plus its a bit easier to try to package. When I built my brake package, the 1.25in thick rotor is tough to clear the ball joint housing on the control arm.

 

[Economatic]

I have cooked the BP-20s on the fronts. I built my own kit using a 12.88 x 1.10 rotor and a Superlite 6 caliper. In the rear I used a 12in rotor in the back with a stock caliper. Just wanted more rear rotor leverage. I turned the rear rotors bluish at Barber. The brakes held up fine, no fluid boiling, but there was pretty serious pad build up on the rotors. For a track car, DTC60 is definitely a good choice.

I have run DTC 60s and 70s on my race car with good success. Reality is if you are tracking the car, get 3in ducting to the front brakes. It will make the brakes better all around.

It sounds like I should have talked with you before going with the off the shelf kit from Wilwood. Can you give a track day front/rear pad recommendation for with the 12.19'' Dynapro 6 BBK and larger 12'' rear rotors with stock calipers?

Last weekend I went for another track day with some minor upgrades from the last sessions I did in May. I wanted a bit more from the rear brakes so I did the Gold Coast larger rear rotor kit and I also added some minor chassis bracing. Not much to say about the changes other than I definitely need to sort out the pad selection. I was hoping I'd be able to talk to some other more experience drivers for pad recommendations but I was the only one with a lowly FWD economy car in a sea of Porsches. It was still fun but with my skill level improving and getting faster I realized that there might need to be some suspension changes.

 

[Fusion Works]

If you are going to the track use a BP40 or Willwood A or B compound. The A will make your eyeballs pop out, but its not a street pad by any measure. The BP40 is also not a street pad. I'm running the BP20 and its awesome on the street. Infact it dusts less than the OE rear pads. I would stick with the OE rear pad as its good throughout its temp range. Plus it behaves nicely on the street. Besides, FWD doesn't use the rear brakes much in normal use. It will however get hot enough on track to turn the rotors blue.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I also need suggestions on where to buy pads for my Wilwood kit, looks like EBC no longer supplies theirs. Carbotech is supposed to email me back about buying a set of their pads to use for the street, but I haven't figured out track pads yet. I'd also like to upgrade the rotor... but have no idea where to get better rings.