Feisty the "Family Car"

[Dialcaliper]

Could you elaborate on how you performed the test? Was the phone attached somewhere at the front/rear of the car for separate measurements? Did you just drive around for a bit to get the data?

Set the phone on a flat surface as close to the axle as possible (basically flat in the trunk, and on the sill in front of the windshield or on the dash works).

Bounce the axle for several seconds (I think I had it set to 25 sec) by pushing down on the car. You may need to practice, as if you’re not pushing “in time” with the bounce you can skew the measurement. You don’t have to push that hard. It’s easier with two people, especially with stiffer than stock springs.

Technically the damping in the shocks can throw off the measurement a bit, but it will be close enough to verify that you’re in the right ballpark.

Shaikh has a useful video on doing it the old fashioned way without the app - (counting with a stopwatch) which also works

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F-n60O2PmUg

 

[Dialcaliper]

That above total car weight is with a FULL interior (everything factory still in place behind the front seats), correct?

Completely factory interior (w/Recaros), lightweight Fiesta spare and jumper cables in the back, mostly full tank of gas.

Major weight difference parts are the Mountune intercooler and radiator, the Bilstein shocks, ADF Skidplate and Swave/Summit 4 point brace. Braille 21lb battery, 16” Dekagrams w/ 215’s and 150lb me. I think that’s pretty much it - other mods are pretty much noise.

Previously I got the weight of the car with less gas (1/4 tank) with just the intercooler (and Pierce 2-point) at 100lb lighter (2839 lb)

 

[foodtruck]

Bilstein actually did a decent job choosing spring rates and is a pretty great set - among the best available for that market segment, but I think the B14’s main flaw is most people in that price range want “lowered cars” because that’s “what you do”.

FWIW, I'm on 215/45r16 and max perch height and the bushing height is at around 6.4in, so it seems like the roll centre is still within the optimal range. That puts my mind at ease; thanks again for sharing that spreadsheet!

 

[Dialcaliper]

More fun experiments. After looking at the corner weights, decided to play with some Speedthane spring rubbers I was able to borrow to stiffen up the left side and see if frequency matching makes a difference. The difference at stock springs rates is pretty negligible, but with increased spring rates, it appears that to match right and left frequency on the same axle, it’s actually a step stiffer on the left rear (+25lb), and a bit less on the Left front (+15lb).

The weight difference isn’t large, and obviously it will change with passengers in the car, but this is an experiment. The spring rubbers come in assorted stiffnesses for tuning. Values are really approximate (and change depending on how many winds the installed spring has), but “nominally” they are something like 5,10,15 and 20 and 50lb increments. In reality they are just rated by durometer and at high compression are progressive, but the rates are low enough to not matter and just like bumpstops of the same material, they are initially fairy linear. Race teams that want to really dial them in will run the actual spring with different rubbers installed on a spring tester to check the actual rates that result.

Already using 2 of the “20lb” rubbers in the rear to get “close” a 224(4k) spring on the 200lb springs I have. Went a little conservative and added a “10lb” to the left front, and a “15lb” in the left rear which should get closer to balanced frequency.

The car has had a very “busy” rocking side to side wobble going over bumps. I had just chalked it up to one-wheel bumps combined with the stiffer sway bars.

It might just be my imagination, but I feel like it might have improved slightly.

The theory would be that if the left/right sides have significantly different natural frequency, after a bump, which is an input, the suspension will oscillate until damped by the shocks. This is why there’s a “bounce” after any road feature - you’re not feeling 100% of the road feature, just a small jolt reduced by the suspension, followed by a “settling” bounce

This is why natural frequency is important - because a car never tracks the road features perfectly. That would require zero stiffness springs, massless unsprung wheels and/or an infinte mass vehicle

One theory is that when one corner of the car is heavier, the two sides may get “out of sync” which may show up as a side to side wobble - much like the “pitching” front to back you get from a suspension with overly stiff front springs because the rear that hits the bump later never catches up.

Alternately, it could be that the spring rubbers are providing some slight extra compression damping. Either way, it seemingly helped.

The nice thing about the rubbers is that you can in theory install and remove them without unbolting anything, or even removing the wheels. You just need to jack up the car so the suspension can droop. (They can be a bit tight going in)

 

[Dialcaliper]

Lesson learned time. I went through the trouble of contacting Bilstein to get replacements for the fancy, hard to find stud mount zip tie anchors for the ABS wheel speed sensor wire. I tied down the wire where it seemed logical - on the rubber but that is normally anchored to the strut.

Unfortunately, that was the wrong choice. It turns out that it was just wrong enough that in hard corners, the ABS wire started rubbing on the tire and wearing right into the insulation until wires were exposed. That triggered an intermittent short/code for the ABS unit.

It turns out that when it throws that code, the ABS and traction control lights come on, disabling the ABS. I guess that’s fine. But being intermittent, it only takes a couple minutes for the code to clear and the ABS to reset.

Unfortunately, this also resets the traction/stability control. Which promptly came on mid corner, combined with a faulty sensor caused the tail of the car to kick out on an interchange. Fortunately not going that fast, but gave me quite a surprise.

Moral of the story. Always check clearances and range of motion on moving chassis parts. Also - probably a couple hundred grams of road gravel came out when I opened the fender liner! Maybe good for some weight reduction 🤣

 

[Dialcaliper]

Finally put wrench to car again even if it was a little thing. Installed a TB trunk brace. Oddly, I’m not a fan of the way a lot of their other parts are made, but this one with the simple straight bar that clears the seatback support just fine seems a lot better designed than even the Mishimoto and Swave braces. I dislike the unnecessarily bent tubes and the Swave pivot design when all it’s doing is stiffening between two bolts locations.

Not entirely happy with the seatback bolts themselves though, it seemed like it was really hard to turn them to full torque - felt like they wanted to strip out, so I tightened them as much as I was comfortable doing. Anyone else have issues with this?

Took it out for a first “real” drive today, and I feel like it’s very subtle but still noticable difference - the rear end doesn’t bounce around quite so much.

As a side-note, just passed 7500 miles with the “Rally” springs, as my custom Bilsteins aren’t quite done yet. So far everything is holding up just fine - haven’t had any problems with the spacer bearings or rubber rings up front like I was worried about. The B6’s up front seem to pair well. The only thing I’m noticing is that with the stock almost 70k mile rear shocks, the rear end is a little underdamped. Anyone looking to duplicate it, (or use the Swifts for that matter) I’d highly recommend at the least fresh shocks like OEM, B4, KYB, etc (or at least less than 30k miles), or upgrade to a B6. Been too cheap to buy a new set of rear B6’s since I’m not going to use them for very long before I swap them back out, though I’m still keeping an eye out for a used set.

 

[tri-pedaler]

Finally put wrench to car again even if it was a little thing. Installed a TB trunk brace. Oddly, I’m not a fan of the way a lot of their other parts are made, but this one with the simple straight bar that clears the seatback support just fine seems a lot better designed than even the Mishimoto and Swave braces. I dislike the unnecessarily bent tubes and the Swave pivot design when all it’s doing is stiffening between two bolts locations.

Not entirely happy with the seatback bolts themselves though, it seemed like it was really hard to turn them to full torque - felt like they wanted to strip out, so I tightened them as much as I was comfortable doing. Anyone else have issues with this?

Took it out for a first “real” drive today, and I feel like it’s very subtle but still noticable difference - the rear end doesn’t bounce around quite so much.

As a side-note, just passed 7500 miles with the “Rally” springs, as my custom Bilsteins aren’t quite done yet. So far everything is holding up just fine - haven’t had any problems with the spacer bearings or rubber rings up front like I was worried about. The B6’s up front seem to pair well. The only thing I’m noticing is that with the stock almost 70k mile rear shocks, the rear end is a little underdamped. Anyone looking to duplicate it, (or use the Swifts for that matter) I’d highly recommend at the least fresh shocks like OEM, B4, KYB, etc (or at least less than 30k miles), or upgrade to a B6. Been too cheap to buy a new set of rear B6’s since I’m not going to use them for very long before I swap them back out, though I’m still keeping an eye out for a used set.

@Dialcaliper I’m waffling about whether to put my new B6s up here. I put them on to help with bouncing on the highway, but unfortunately it is likely a spring rate issue on my ‘15 more than anything.

I was going to take them off yesterday, but got sidetracked. 500 miles on them, bought in February. They’ll likely be up soon, if you’re interested.

 

[Dialcaliper]

@Dialcaliper I’m waffling about whether to put my new B6s up here. I put them on to help with bouncing on the highway, but unfortunately it is likely a spring rate issue on my ‘15 more than anything.

I was going to take them off yesterday, but got sidetracked. 500 miles on them, bought in February. They’ll likely be up soon, if you’re interested.

Tempting. Let me know when you do.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Finally put wrench to car again even if it was a little thing. Installed a TB trunk brace. Oddly, I’m not a fan of the way a lot of their other parts are made, but this one with the simple straight bar that clears the seatback support just fine seems a lot better designed than even the Mishimoto and Swave braces. I dislike the unnecessarily bent tubes and the Swave pivot design when all it’s doing is stiffening between two bolts locations.

Not entirely happy with the seatback bolts themselves though, it seemed like it was really hard to turn them to full torque - felt like they wanted to strip out, so I tightened them as much as I was comfortable doing. Anyone else have issues with this?

Took it out for a first “real” drive today, and I feel like it’s very subtle but still noticeable difference - the rear end doesn’t bounce around quite so much.

As a side-note, just passed 7500 miles with the “Rally” springs, as my custom Bilsteins aren’t quite done yet. So far everything is holding up just fine - haven’t had any problems with the spacer bearings or rubber rings up front like I was worried about. The B6’s up front seem to pair well. The only thing I’m noticing is that with the stock almost 70k mile rear shocks, the rear end is a little underdamped. Anyone looking to duplicate it, (or use the Swifts for that matter) I’d highly recommend at the least fresh shocks like OEM, B4, KYB, etc (or at least less than 30k miles), or upgrade to a B6. Been too cheap to buy a new set of rear B6’s since I’m not going to use them for very long before I swap them back out, though I’m still keeping an eye out for a used set.

I only liked the Mishimoto design for that trunk brace because it is the flattest, and lowest profile of the lot of them, but I went with the SWAVE/Summit one anyway, being the next lowest profile.
(My hatch area is gutted, so I need something which does not cause any cargo I might carry back there to 'teeter' on a fulcrum of that brace. )

I found some higher strength stainless bolts at McMaster-Carr to use, albeit still a pan head Torx (like the factory ones), because the narrow pocket for that bolt on the SWAVE/Summit end mounts will not allow for a hex socket to work.

Even though it is the 'wrong way' to do it, I may just go with the B6/Swift setup with spacers on the front top mounts, and some sort of weight jackers in the back, when I do decide to swap out the factory suspension.
(IF that setup actually does lower the car way too much for my tastes and needs, initially. )

 

[Dialcaliper]

I only liked the Mishimoto design for that trunk brace because it is the flattest, and lowest profile of the lot of them, but I went with the SWAVE/Summit one anyway, being the next lowest profile.
(My hatch area is gutted, so I need something which does not cause any cargo I might carry back there to 'teeter' on a fulcrum of that brace. )

I found some higher strength stainless bolts at McMaster-Carr to use, albeit still a pan head Torx (like the factory ones), because the narrow pocket for that bolt on the SWAVE/Summit end mounts will not allow for a hex socket to work.

Even though it is the 'wrong way' to do it, I may just go with the B6/Swift setup with spacers on the front top mounts, and some sort of weight jackers in the back, when I do decide to swap out the factory suspension.
(IF that setup actually does lower the car way too much for my tastes and needs, initially. )

Yeah, I’m thinking I might swap out for longer bolts, and maybe run a thread repair tap down the hole in case there’s some lock patch/threadlocker stuck in there.

Also, I’m telling you, Rally springs. All the fun, none of the drop. It’s way easier than it sounds, all off-the-shelf parts and definitely simpler than the strut spacers and weight jackers you’re talking about. Also the front struts can be preloaded by hand and no messing with spring compressors. Just recently updated the thread to make sure all the links still work.

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...-rally-springs-for-stock-b6-suspension.30829/

 

[Dialcaliper]

The last couple of weeks, my braille battery appears to have been toasted after only a bit over a year.

Had the battery tested at the parts store and it came up “bad” with only 321 CCA (rated 550CCA)

Fortunately still under warranty, but it’s weird. At first I though my alternator because the car would start twice and then be too dead to start again, but the “smart” alternator appears to be coming up to 15V for a short charge time and then settling back down.

I was recommended by @1nsanity that our charging system is not kind to AGM batteries that charging at higher voltage and lower amperage, and also like higher “float” voltages, so I bought a Ctek 4.3A MUS “test and charge” charger and when the replacement comes, I’ll try giving it periodic charging and see if that keeps it happier.

https://smartercharger.com/products/ctek-mus-4-3-test-and-charge

The “bad” battery is only holding 12.6V, when full charge is supposed to be closer to 13.2V. Interestingly since I’m getting a replacement I ran it through a reconditioning cycle with the fancy new charger (that you’re not supposed to do with most AGMs) and it appears to be starting the car again. Charge voltage has dropped even more (12.5V) which is bad, but a second trip to the parts store post charging got me back to 474CCA again. Probably damaged the battery, but at least it seems like it will not leave me stranded until the new one shows up.

Lastly, while searching around for a cheap or used 96R in case I needed something temporarily, I came across this Ford battery blanket that was OEM on S197 Mustangs and similar vintage Ford Foci that also used 96R’s, but in an open tray

It seems to tuck into our battery box nicely and I think it will fit even with a full sized 96R. I figure a bit more insulation from the rest of the hot engine bay. Can’t be a bad thing.

Part number is AR3Z10A687A if anyone is curious.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Thanks for that blanket part number.

I most likely killed my first Odyssey full size/capacity/weight 96R AGM due to overcharging it on the bespoke Odyssey/Schumacher AGM charger back when I still could pull up to a garage door with an outlet in order to charge the battery.

Now I would have to remove the battery and carry it inside the apartment in order to charge it currently, which has most likely saved the replacement, despite our ride's charging system not 'getting along' with any AGM, (supposedly).

 

[Dialcaliper]

Thanks for that blanket part number.

I most likely killed my first Odyssey full size/capacity/weight 96R AGM due to overcharging it on the bespoke Odyssey/Schumacher AGM charger back when I still could pull up to a garage door with an outlet in order to charge the battery.

That I would have to remove the battery and carry it inside the apartment in order to charge it currently has most likely saved the replacement, despite our ride's charging system not 'getting along' with any AGM, (supposedly).

When you were charging, did you charge with ground directly on the negative battery terminal or on the ground point? I’m seeing info suggesting that the ground point needs to be used - keeping the BMS in the loop, so it knows the battery received charge current and doesn’t overcharge when the battery is already near full.

 

[M-Sport fan]

ALWAYS on that ground point near the brake/clutch fluid reservoir!

My fault was constantly re-setting the charger in order to get to that 14.5-16.9 volt 'de-sulfating' rate, thinking that multiple cycles of that was absolutely necessary for battery life, even though AGMs are much less prone to the sulfating current killer than flooded lead acid batteries.

Live and learn.
But, at least it was fully covered anyway by Summit Racing, without even having to ship back the bad, case swollen unit.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Warranty replacement for the Braille finally arrived. I’ve installed last weekend and everything seems fine now with starting and charging. Returning the $$$ Motorcraft Alternator to Rockauto for a refund!

Took the opportunity to remove, clean and apply anti corrosive zinc paste (supposed to be better than normal dielectric grease on copper and steel connections.) to the 4x ground points in the engine bay, although they seem to actually be in good shape.

This time I’m going to try taking good advice and give the battery a proper AGM charge with the new wall charger

 

[Dialcaliper]

Electrical Gremlins!

I’ve been having an odd, intermittent and frustrating problem that. Seems to be with the ABS module. If anyone has any experience with this issue or thoughts on other places to check, let me know

Even with ESC turned completely off, the TC light in the top right of the instrument panel has started flickering on during some corners. No codes are showing up, and maybe nothing dangerous, but puzzling. (See image for the light I’m talking about)

At first I thought it might be another wheel speed sensor issue since I had to replace damaged from sensors, but I had a chance to log the ABS module, and there doesn’t seem to be any obvious issue with the sensors.

What is happening is totally weird. When logging with Forscan, as soon as the flickering happens, communication between laptop and ABS module is being lost!

I was able to reproduce the comm dropout 3 times. Twice right away and a third time I logged a second or two with the flicker, before it eventually also lost communication.

I’m now thinking that the problem may be a loosening connector or splice somewhere in the canbus.

I’m going to see if I can provoke the communications dropout by logging with Forscan (vehicle at rest), and jostle the relevant harnesses and connectors to see if the comm problem happens without driving around

If anyone’s seen a similar issue and found a solution to it, let me now. My leading theory is that it might be the splice (S160-S161). that connects the ABS module to the Canbus network. There’s a suspicious splice is located in the engine bay firewall harness, so not great for heat exposure.

The harness is a pain to get to. (See image below)

 

[Intuit]

TC light in the top right of the instrument panel has started flickering on during some corners

So tell us Dialcaliper... just HOW hard are you cornering? 😄
Usually I'm too busy driving to notice but there has been a few times I've caught it flickering as an indicator of stability control activation.
I don't think they allow stability control to be fully turned off? (because, lawyers)
With suspension and other changes, it's possible that it may be a tad sensitive.
Is it normal for the ABS module to briefly 'ignore' the bus during a triggered event? (because it's busy?)
Do a fast reverse then lock up the brakes while monitoring. (it's easy to lock up the front in reverse)

ALWAYS on that ground point near the brake/clutch fluid reservoir!

My fault was constantly re-setting the charger in order to get to that 14.5-16.9 volt 'de-sulfating' rate, thinking that multiple cycles of that was absolutely necessary for battery life, even though AGMs are much less prone to the sulfating current killer than flooded lead acid batteries.

Live and learn.
But, at least it was fully covered anyway by Summit Racing, without even having to ship back the bad, case swollen unit.

Speaking of gremlin, that turn sig / wiper gremlin showed up the same year I decided to be lazy and charge the battery while connected to the vehicle... which is something I never do. Reason I didn't before was, fear of creating an electrical gremlin. Could be coincidence but regardless, I've resumed my prior rule of never charging while connected. I'll just reset the BCM after charging... even though this has the unintended side affect of resetting the age of the battery with the BCM. Oh.. I'll also never do a full charge anymore. Just partial charges.

 

[Dialcaliper]

So tell us Dialcaliper... just HOW hard are you cornering? 😄
Usually I'm too busy driving to notice but there has been a few times I've caught it flickering as an indicator of stability control activation.
I don't think they allow stability control to be fully turned off? (because, lawyers)
With suspension and other changes, it's possible that it may be a tad sensitive.
Is it normal for the ABS module to briefly 'ignore' the bus during a triggered event? (because it's busy?)
Do a fast reverse then lock up the brakes while monitoring. (it's easy to lock up the front in reverse)



Speaking of gremlin, that turn sig / wiper gremlin showed up the same year I decided to be lazy and charge the battery while connected to the vehicle... which is something I never do. Reason I didn't before was, fear of creating an electrical gremlin. Could be coincidence but regardless, I've resumed my prior rule of never charging while connected. I'll just reset the BCM after charging... even though this has the unintended side affect of resetting the age of the battery with the BCM. Oh.. I'll also never do a full charge anymore. Just partial charges.

FYI the service manual actually mentions that you should charge with the positive on the battery and the ground on the chassis (the bracket where the battery ground is fine, just not on the battery terminal. Apparently the BMS somehow keeps track of current flowing in and out of the battery for whatever nefarious purposes.

The gremlin in the TC light appears to happen even on some light corners. Just went back over the Forscan datalog, and even with the TC turned back on (tested all 3 modes), none of the traction control or AYC activated, nor any of the ABS valves, so I’m more certain now that it’s a wiring or communication error.

That said, I am getting some weird wear patterns on the front tires. Pretty sure it’s not from low pressure but I’m wearing off both the inside and the outside shoulders of the tires. I don’t think they’re rolling over, but definitely using all of the shoulder on the tread. Front camber at -2.0 currently (wondering if I need more). The mostly worn tires on the bottom of the stack were fronts just swapped to the rear with wear on both shoulders (looks like 2/32 more on the inside and outside vs the middle)


Either that or I screwed up with too much toe-in last time I set it. Could also be rubbing on that stupid fender liner flange. Might be time to trim it back like some other people seem to be doing.

Photos

 

[Intuit]

FYI the service manual actually mentions that you should charge with the positive on the battery and the ground on the chassis (the bracket where the battery ground is fine, just not on the battery terminal. Apparently the BMS somehow keeps track of current flowing in and out of the battery for whatever nefarious purposes.

Yip I's already awares...
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/poll-battery-monitor-system-bms-reset.31882/

Here's the thread on that gremlin I mentioned... (cause: failing load resistor circuit in an LED headlamp)
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/delayed-wipers-turn-signal-flash-wiper-stop-resolved.29473/

The reasoning for my hesitation about connected-charging has to do with the potential for very dirty power output of AC battery chargers. Most of the vehicle's electronics remain off during this charging and the battery has the potential to absorb damaging fluctuations, but if there's any risk at all, I'd rather not risk what can easily be avoided.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Photos

For tires which have a fairly narrow tread width (7.5"), and only ~ 0.3" taller diameter than OEM 205/40-17s, those look A LOT wider than they should, even on an 8" wide wheel.
But then every wheel/tire setup looks wider to me off of the car than on it.

In any case, there should be NO rubbing whatsoever going on with that setup, especially with your even higher than factory (static) ride height, and higher rate springs on top of that!