Ford recalls 440k vehicles due to fire risk

[jmrtsus]

The issue is the effected vehicles have a localized heating issue in a single cooling passage in the head. The design flaw was later corrected. We are not getting the new head, just a dummy light that tells us we're doomed. [emoji16]

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As long as the coolant level is correct you have no problem......the head only overheats and warps on low coolant levels. All aluminum heads are likely to warp on severe overheating, the early Rotary engine was very sensitive to temps, if the temp gauge hit "H" you were buying an engine. I see the recall does more than add the light so I would think if there is an inherent flaw in the expansion tank plumbing leaking they will fix that. As to changing heads or engines......NHTSA had to agree the recall addresses the issue and what was required to insure the safety of the car. The Recall in a safety Recall for fires that were caused when the coolant could no longer reach the head due to a low level. In other words changing the engine or head was not the correction, the cooling system is. As I understand it these failures showed that a change was a good idea in the heads so Ford made a change and incorporated it into the assembly line in 2016. So the recall is for a cooling system not the engine or head according to both Ford and the Fed's. My '16 is not affected on this recall. I thought something new had come out.

 

[GAbOS]

As long as the coolant level is correct you have no problem......the head only overheats and warps on low coolant levels. All aluminum heads are likely to warp on severe overheating, the early Rotary engine was very sensitive to temps, if the temp gauge hit "H" you were buying an engine. I see the recall does more than add the light so I would think if there is an inherent flaw in the expansion tank plumbing leaking they will fix that. As to changing heads or engines......NHTSA had to agree the recall addresses the issue and what was required to insure the safety of the car. The Recall in a safety Recall for fires that were caused when the coolant could no longer reach the head due to a low level. In other words changing the engine or head was not the correction, the cooling system is. As I understand it these failures showed that a change was a good idea in the heads so Ford made a change and incorporated it into the assembly line in 2016. So the recall is for a cooling system not the engine or head according to both Ford and the Fed's. My '16 is not affected on this recall. I thought something new had come out.

Now I have to keep an eye on my coolant level because it burns up over time due to bad design that they obviously wanted to fix in later models. Just saying. They knew it was/is an issue.

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[jmrtsus]

Now I have to keep an eye on my coolant level because it burns up over time due to bad design that they obviously wanted to fix in later models. Just saying. They knew it was/is an issue.

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Of course "they" knew it was an issue ....multiple fires are hard to ignore, that is why the Recall was issued. Is you car affected by this recall?

"Now I have to keep an eye on my coolant level because it burns up over time due to bad design"........you mean you did not check fluid levels before?

If your car "burns up" coolant what is the Ford Service people telling you?

 

[GAbOS]

Of course "they" knew it was an issue ....multiple fires are hard to ignore, that is why the Recall was issued. Is you car affected by this recall?

"Now I have to keep an eye on my coolant level because it burns up over time due to bad design"........you mean you did not check fluid levels before?

If your car "burns up" coolant what is the Ford Service people telling you?

Of course I do! Change my on oil and swap my winter wheels every winter too. You're missing the point that it bothers some people that know what a bandaid fix is versus a root cause. I want a root cause repair.

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[jmrtsus]

Of course I do! Change my on oil and swap my winter wheels every winter too. You're missing the point that it bothers some people that know what a bandaid fix is versus a root cause. I want a root cause repair.

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Have you by any chance read the recall? The "root" cause is the cooling system. I doubt you have the data, experience or the burnt out cars to examine that NHTSA and Ford had in analyzing and correcting this problem. Sorry, I don't think "they", which I guess is a secret cabal between Ford and NHTSA, put a "bandaid" fix in a life threatening U.S. Government administered Safety Recall. I am also sure that if any additional fires occur due to your so called "bandaid" both Ford and NHTSA would be sued to hell and back especially after the record settlements in the Pinto fire lawsuits years ago. Ford would also have to have pulled the wool over all of the other countries government agencies where the cars are recalled. You know the reason we have NHTSA is in part to oversee and approve Recalls. Just not buying Ford, US Feds and foreign governments are promoting a "bandaid" for some kind of gain.

 

[Alkoran]

Would you please explain us how a new coolant bottle and a sensor will prevent coolant burning/evaporation? And why did Ford make a revision of the head if it was not the cause of said burning.

If there is no coolant evaporation, there's no need for a low level sensor. The fire risk is only present because of overheating which then cause cracking which cause oil leaking and then fire hazard. But at the beginning, if there is no overheating, there's no fire risk.

 

[GAbOS]

Have you by any chance read the recall? The "root" cause is the cooling system. I doubt you have the data, experience or the burnt out cars to examine that NHTSA and Ford had in analyzing and correcting this problem. Sorry, I don't think "they", which I guess is a secret cabal between Ford and NHTSA, put a "bandaid" fix in a life threatening U.S. Government administered Safety Recall. I am also sure that if any additional fires occur due to your so called "bandaid" both Ford and NHTSA would be sued to hell and back especially after the record settlements in the Pinto fire lawsuits years ago. Ford would also have to have pulled the wool over all of the other countries government agencies where the cars are recalled. You know the reason we have NHTSA is in part to oversee and approve Recalls. Just not buying Ford, US Feds and foreign governments are promoting a "bandaid" for some kind of gain.

I would just like the note that I have NOT used any of the words: FIRE/FLAME/HELLFIRE in any of my remarks to this issue. The key words I do used are 'Baindaid' and 'Root Cause'.

To answer your first question(s?)..

Yes, Agree, (compound question), Agreed[you have the same as me], yes, hell yes,.. who's NASHTA and or FORD and your relation?

"They" Is exactly who the forum context is about, let alone the entire thread! You wanna bring more groups into this issue, your thing. I'm sure the alien blood runs deep. Zero doubt there.

Fuq dood. Argue all you want. Shit "FIX" PERIOD.


Can't wait for your next post to interject more obscure facts into my previous posts. Next, I'll be a drifting, no oil changing, stancer that can't setup an Alexa.

 

[jmrtsus]

I would just like the note that I have NOT used any of the words: FIRE/in any of my remarks to this issue. The key words I do used are 'Baindaid' and 'Root Cause'.

To answer your first question(s?)..

Yes, Agree, (compound question), Agreed[you have the same as me], yes, hell yes,.. who's NASHTA and or FORD and your relation?

"They" Is exactly who the forum context is about, let alone the entire thread! You wanna bring more groups into this issue, your thing. I'm sure the alien blood runs deep. Zero doubt there.

Fuq dood. Argue all you want. Shit "FIX" PERIOD.


Can't wait for your next post to interject more obscure facts into my previous posts. Next, I'll be a drifting, no oil changing, stancer that can't setup an Alexa.

My relationship is since you have never read the recall, is I READ! I understand English. You don't you apparently have never heard of NHTSA so talking to you is moot. In you mind Oswald did not kill Kennedy, we faked the Moon landing and the Russians elected Trump. Common factors to ignorant comments is they blame "they"! Grow up and get an a big person to explain recalls and the role of NHTSA. Or more likely keep blaming "they" for all of your ignorance. Where did I say anything about FLAME/HELLFIRE ...proves you can't read. Done with you....learn to read!

 

[GAbOS]

My relationship is since you have never read the recall, is I READ! I understand English. You don't you apparently have never heard of NHTSA so talking to you is moot. In you mind Oswald did not kill Kennedy, we faked the Moon landing and the Russians elected Trump. Common factors to ignorant comments is they blame "they"! Grow up and get an a big person to explain recalls and the role of NHTSA. Or more likely keep blaming "they" for all of your ignorance. Where did I say anything about FLAME/HELLFIRE ...proves you can't read. Done with you....learn to read!

Man, you are off your rocker. I don't think it's a root cause fix and you do. Just deal with it and get off my ass.

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[ykalil]

Hello,

My 2014 fiesta is part of the recall due to over heating problems. Got 80,000 miles.I always work between 210-230 F. Once a month the coolant was lower than usual so I filled it out. Then I started losing power and it did not go over 15psi, and I heard an air leak. Finally started a missfire on cylinder # 2 and it was coolant. Without knowing that I had a recall, I opened the engine thinking that the head gasket was damaged and I found this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vn3JjU7TbqLi0ZMI8DB4g9F1BkijBl5l/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W9-7SMmdJf7CEWUItn8DE23PGQtjMbGm/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 2 (This cylinder had water)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eyD7qo3G4zT6JGsuiFnpTagL5DbiWYLh/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 3
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SRZNa8ygYe41pm5uFTGcgrSk1jFHsYGr/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 4

I was curious and verified the VIN on the ford page and I find the recall. Call the dealer where i buy the car and tell them about what happened to me. It turns out that since I opened the engine outside the Ford workshops, they do not want to accept the car to fix it. Now I am looking for a lawyer to work on this case.

This recall is a major problem with the cylinder head. If your cars have the recall do not wait and take them to the dealer. In many cases they are changing the entire engine.

Very disappointed

 

[Alkoran]

Can't you just rebolt everything and have it towed to an other dealer?

 

[Intuit]

Many if not most mechanics will outright refuse to touch a vehicle that has knowingly been disassembled by an amateur and/or brought to them in pieces.

Does Ford have a 100k or 5 year power train warranty? What is the warranty for your 2014 and did you have the running-hot condition documented within that warranty period?

Yeah that's tantamount to, "we didn't discover the problem, so the problem is yours." Do you have paperwork to support the current diagnosis or was this DIY? If this was my DIY, I would grab a template for a mechanic's estimate and draw it up, just as they would. You can also get other official diagnosis and estimates from third parties.

In court, I understand that precedence weighs heavily. Search for past cases where warranty issues were diagnosed by a third party and subsequently covered by Ford because the diagnosis fit the parameters of the warranty.

 

[zanethan]

Yeah not gonna lie, while I sympathize with your case, I can't blame Ford for not accepting the recall on a vehicle that's been half disassembled by the customer. I'm in no way insinuating that you did this, but what's to stop someone from just tearing apart a blown engine and making it look like it was a recall issue.

 

[jmrtsus]

Hello,

My 2014 fiesta is part of the recall due to over heating problems. Got 80,000 miles.I always work between 210-230 F. Once a month the coolant was lower than usual so I filled it out. Then I started losing power and it did not go over 15psi, and I heard an air leak. Finally started a missfire on cylinder # 2 and it was coolant. Without knowing that I had a recall, I opened the engine thinking that the head gasket was damaged and I found this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vn3JjU7TbqLi0ZMI8DB4g9F1BkijBl5l/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W9-7SMmdJf7CEWUItn8DE23PGQtjMbGm/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 2 (This cylinder had water)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eyD7qo3G4zT6JGsuiFnpTagL5DbiWYLh/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 3
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SRZNa8ygYe41pm5uFTGcgrSk1jFHsYGr/view?usp=sharing Cylinder 4

I was curious and verified the VIN on the ford page and I find the recall. Call the dealer where i buy the car and tell them about what happened to me. It turns out that since I opened the engine outside the Ford workshops, they do not want to accept the car to fix it. Now I am looking for a lawyer to work on this case.

This recall is a major problem with the cylinder head. If your cars have the recall do not wait and take them to the dealer. In many cases they are changing the entire engine.

Very disappointed

I take it you have not read the recall yet?

 

[worker88]

I take it you have not read the recall yet?

What does this response mean?

He was not aware of a recall when he began working on the car. It’s a bummer he did work on it before Ford could diagnose and collect data.

Keep in mind this is at least the 3rd US recall specifically related to the 1.6 ecoboost and the potential of its cooling system to cause catastrophic engine and/or property damage.

 

[jmrtsus]

What does this response mean?

He was not aware of a recall when he began working on the car. It’s a bummer he did work on it before Ford could diagnose and collect data.

Keep in mind this is at least the 3rd US recall specifically related to the 1.6 ecoboost and the potential of its cooling system to cause catastrophic engine and/or property damage.

His post implies he has not read it, I simply mean he should read it. It may help him get it fixed if Ford failed to notify him of the recall before he tore it down. I believe it also provides info to contact NHTSA who administers the recall if you have problems or questions. Seem to recall it also addresses reimbursement to the owner for repairs done before the recall. He has the option to go through Ford Customer care. No intelligent, reputable Lawyer will file a suit against Ford without following the proper steps to handle the issue first. If you as the plaintiff do not attempt to resolve the issues before going to court the Judge can and will dismiss the suit. I had a suit against me and my business dismissed with prejudice which meant they could not refile the suit for just that reason. What smart Lawyer takes on an unlimited budget legal team with the car owners Lawyer footing the bill himself with no promise of a penny in return? Just trying to help and save him time and money. The local dealer wants nothing to do with it, there is no guarantee they will be reimbursed by Ford with it torn down already unless they hear from Ford. This is between him and Ford, better to work with Ford without legal threats and the Feds through NHTSA. I have faith in Ford Customer Care as they resolved two problem I had with my dealer. Both were resolved by Customer Care that put checks in my hand. I feel sure this is something Ford Corporate will want to resolve if approached in the right manner. That is where Customer Care comes in. They are your voice with the people that make the decisions on the issues. Ford has allocated many millions of dollars to resolve this issue to NHTSA's satisfaction. He is free to file an online complaint to NHTSA on the issue. Repairing his car is small change, but getting to the person to authorize it is best left to Customer Care, they also have the option of paying for the repairs from their "Customer Satisfaction Fund". One of my issues was resolved from that fund. I believe he can get his car repaired by working with Ford ( and NHTSA if needed) if he gives them a chance. And a customer service tip, ask for help......do not demand something. Contact the Ford Rep on the site and ask for help.

I know of only one recall, this one. What are the other two?

 

[meFiSTo]

Safety Recall 17S09 and aftermarket tunes

After reading through most of the recall PDF, it appears that the fix for the Escape involves a PCM update. AFAIK, that involves overwriting the current tune with a new tune. There's no other way to "change" programmable attributes in the PCM programming, right?

That's fine for a stock box, but cars with tunes might have a problem with that. Is there something else that can be done that sticks with the car without regard to the installed tune?

If the "final" fix for the Fiesta ST (coolant sensor, plumbing, wire routing, PCM rework, etc.) is the analogous, which I suspect it will be, then does that not exclude any even mildly "tuned" cars from getting this update (without losing every bit of their tune)?

Here are the notes to the dealers/repair shops related to the Fiesta ST repair procedure timing from the Dec. 2017 Supplement #1 update (nothing in this bit about the PCM):

Transit Connect, Fusion and Fiesta ST Vehicles:

Service parts and repair procedures are not currently available to address this safety recall. A Dealer
Bulletin Supplement will be provided to dealers in January 2018 when it is anticipated that parts
ordering information and repair instructions will be available to complete this recall for Transit Connect
and Fusion vehicles and again in February 2018 for Fiesta ST vehicles.

In the interim period, some customers may arrive at your dealership if their vehicle exhibits a coolant
leak, overheating, or frequently needs coolant added. If the vehicle arrives with any of these
symptoms, dealers are to use the Transit Connect, Fusion and Fiesta ST technical information in
Attachment III to perform a cooling system pressure test and repairs, as necessary.

OWNER NOTIFICATION MAILING SCHEDULE

Owners of record were notified of this safety recall via first-class mail the week of April 24, 2017.
Owners of Escape vehicles will be notified of the final repair the week of January 1, 2018.

For all others, in the interim period, dealers are to address customer symptoms described in the
Service Action, whether or not the customer has received a letter.​

I would like to be wrong about the PCM reprogramming concern. Maybe someone can chime in and correct me with actual knowledge about the implications of this overall fix. I have not yet reached out to Ford on this one. My RS is going in for the BIG head gasket recall pressure check next week.

This is one instance where maybe a level sensor installed in the coolant tank and wired to an idiot light on the dash would be acceptalbe!

Recall supplemental update link: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCMN-17V209-7886.pdf

 

[jmrtsus]

After reading through most of the recall PDF, it appears that the fix for the Escape involves a PCM update. AFAIK, that involves overwriting the current tune with a new tune. There's no other way to "change" programmable attributes in the PCM programming, right?

That's fine for a stock box, but cars with tunes might have a problem with that. Is there something else that can be done that sticks with the car without regard to the installed tune?

If the "final" fix for the Fiesta ST (coolant sensor, plumbing, wire routing, PCM rework, etc.) is the analogous, which I suspect it will be, then does that not exclude any even mildly "tuned" cars from getting this update (without losing every bit of their tune)?

Here are the notes to the dealers/repair shops related to the Fiesta ST repair procedure timing from the Dec. 2017 Supplement #1 update (nothing in this bit about the PCM):

Transit Connect, Fusion and Fiesta ST Vehicles:

Service parts and repair procedures are not currently available to address this safety recall. A Dealer
Bulletin Supplement will be provided to dealers in January 2018 when it is anticipated that parts
ordering information and repair instructions will be available to complete this recall for Transit Connect
and Fusion vehicles and again in February 2018 for Fiesta ST vehicles.

In the interim period, some customers may arrive at your dealership if their vehicle exhibits a coolant
leak, overheating, or frequently needs coolant added. If the vehicle arrives with any of these
symptoms, dealers are to use the Transit Connect, Fusion and Fiesta ST technical information in
Attachment III to perform a cooling system pressure test and repairs, as necessary.

OWNER NOTIFICATION MAILING SCHEDULE

Owners of record were notified of this safety recall via first-class mail the week of April 24, 2017.
Owners of Escape vehicles will be notified of the final repair the week of January 1, 2018.

For all others, in the interim period, dealers are to address customer symptoms described in the
Service Action, whether or not the customer has received a letter.​

I would like to be wrong about the PCM reprogramming concern. Maybe someone can chime in and correct me with actual knowledge about the implications of this overall fix. I have not yet reached out to Ford on this one. My RS is going in for the BIG head gasket recall pressure check next week.

This is one instance where maybe a level sensor installed in the coolant tank and wired to an idiot light on the dash would be acceptalbe!

Recall supplemental update link: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCMN-17V209-7886.pdf

I am pretty sure the software change is to address the new light........not alter the "tune", why would they? The tune has nothing to do with the low coolant level. However if I had any tune other than the Mountune MP-215 I would remove it before service to prevent problems and any hard time about it. Since the recall does not mention it yet I would not worry until the shop instructions come out. Ford installs and warrants the MP-215 so if the "tune" is modified in any way as to performance Mountune would be working on a patch for Ford already. Again, I don't think the "tune" for the engine parameters will be altered, it would require EPA certification to change the operational characteristics of the Engine. So I don't think Ford will be doing that. Both the ST factory "tune" and the MP-215 "tune" are EPA approved. So reapproval here in the USA would be required and I am sure the rest of the world also would be affected by their regulatory agencies. Adding lamps or warning indications do not affect performance but will need software changes to the PCM but not engine performance data. I saw nothing that addressed "tunes" at all in the recall as of yet.

 

[marc89gti]

I am pretty sure the software change is to address the new light........not alter the "tune", why would they? The tune has nothing to do with the low coolant level. However if I had any tune other than the Mountune MP-215 I would remove it before service to prevent problems and any hard time about it. Since the recall does not mention it yet I would not worry until the shop instructions come out. Ford installs and warrants the MP-215 so if the "tune" is modified in any way as to performance Mountune would be working on a patch for Ford already. Again, I don't think the "tune" for the engine parameters will be altered, it would require EPA certification to change the operational characteristics of the Engine. So I don't think Ford will be doing that. Both the ST factory "tune" and the MP-215 "tune" are EPA approved. So reapproval here in the USA would be required and I am sure the rest of the world also would be affected by their regulatory agencies. Adding lamps or warning indications do not affect performance but will need software changes to the PCM but not engine performance data. I saw nothing that addressed "tunes" at all in the recall as of yet.

It’s my understanding talking to my Ford mechanic at the dealer the mp215 tune only over writes part of the factory tune. They have had to flash ecu in the past for other updates then they reload mp215, in this case would be no different with the addition of the low level coolant dummy light


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[jmrtsus]

It’s my understanding talking to my Ford mechanic at the dealer the mp215 tune only over writes part of the factory tune. They have had to flash ecu in the past for other updates then they reload mp215, in this case would be no different with the addition of the low level coolant dummy light


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Could be the 14-15's had to be reflashed but my 16' has not.....yet!