Ford recalls 440k vehicles due to fire risk

[me32]

The open or closed deck thing is poor excuse.

Anyone ever heard of a Honda K-series? It’s open deck. And they make in the 750whp range on a fairly regular bases.

While I agree, I’d rather have a closed deck. It’s not a deal breaker or un-fixable design.

Old school SOHC Honda guys would simply “post” the engine blocks. Which means they would actually drill a hole from the outside of the engine block and run a bolt/hex screw from the outside of the block, to the upper part of the cylinder sleeve. It keeps the cylinders from walking around under big power. And that’s why they developed “block guards” that are/were CNC machines plates that would press into that entire area and support it. The first company that builds a “block guard” could prob make a mint off these Ford Focus RS guys to fix an issue that likely isn’t the real problem.

Lots of people talk about how it’s just part of the deal when your making 350hp with ONLY 2.3L of engine. To those people, I point towards the rarely noticed AMG 2.0L in the GLA45. It’s a smaller engine making 380hp that pulls around a heavier body, yet.... it doesn’t randomly break cylinder walls or head gaskets in stock form.

Fact is.... the RS is another ford with a lot of greatness but also a lot of big short comings. And people will still ignore those short comings and buy them. Bitch about the problems. Then go buy another ford. I’m reminded of how crappy ford’s build quality is every time I start my car and TWO HVAC actuators click for 15 seconds.

Ford is going to wait out the warranties on the 1.6L over heating thing. Once they are clear of all warranties, they will sell you a fix for the cylinder head hot spots. Why fix it now and pay out on warranties ? Just wait till the customer has to pay for it.

Someone sounds little salty

 

[me32]

The open or closed deck thing is poor excuse.

Anyone ever heard of a Honda K-series? It’s open deck. And they make in the 750whp range on a fairly regular bases.

While I agree, I’d rather have a closed deck. It’s not a deal breaker or un-fixable design.

Old school SOHC Honda guys would simply “post” the engine blocks. Which means they would actually drill a hole from the outside of the engine block and run a bolt/hex screw from the outside of the block, to the upper part of the cylinder sleeve. It keeps the cylinders from walking around under big power. And that’s why they developed “block guards” that are/were CNC machines plates that would press into that entire area and support it. The first company that builds a “block guard” could prob make a mint off these Ford Focus RS guys to fix an issue that likely isn’t the real problem.

Lots of people talk about how it’s just part of the deal when your making 350hp with ONLY 2.3L of engine. To those people, I point towards the rarely noticed AMG 2.0L in the GLA45. It’s a smaller engine making 380hp that pulls around a heavier body, yet.... it doesn’t randomly break cylinder walls or head gaskets in stock form.

Fact is.... the RS is another ford with a lot of greatness but also a lot of big short comings. And people will still ignore those short comings and buy them. Bitch about the problems. Then go buy another ford. I’m reminded of how crappy ford’s build quality is every time I start my car and TWO HVAC actuators click for 15 seconds.

Ford is going to wait out the warranties on the 1.6L over heating thing. Once they are clear of all warranties, they will sell you a fix for the cylinder head hot spots. Why fix it now and pay out on warranties ? Just wait till the customer has to pay for it.

Someone sounds little salty

 

[Intuit]

Someone sounds little salty

Yep... and the power difference between the two vehicles is just 1.4%. (355 vs 350) Yet the price difference is near 20%. (41 vs 50)

What would you do with an 18% raise in your pay check?

 

[me32]

Yep... and the power difference between the two vehicles is just 1.4%. (355 vs 350) Yet the price difference is near 20%. (41 vs 50)

What would you do with an 18% raise in your pay check?

Save more. 18% more out of my pocket is too much for my blood

 

[Jamie Ross]

lol. 18% more for a car that doesn’t need a new engine after 5-20k miles ? Or a car that has a DSG 7 speed, more power with a smaller smaller more refined engine, and a Benz interior.

I wasn’t dumb enough to buy a RS ( only dumb enough to buy a ford at all ).

Truth be told. I don’t like Mercedes much either. But it’s totally un-acceptable for the RS to have these issues. And ford fan boys can excuse it away or detract from it like STi nut swingers do about piston rings or broken driveline parts.

Look in the junk yard listings, you can find countless 1.6L engines for super cheap because ford has had this same issue since 2013 (engines built in 2012). Yet..... what is the fix ? A light on the dash to let you know you need to stop at Walgreens to buy some lube on your way to the dealer for a new engine/head. Anyone defending that or the $41k Ford Focus that needs a new engine every 20k miles it just confusing to me... the same people will go buy another ford lol.

I still love my junk ass fiesta lol, clicking HVAC actuators and all.

I’m not even gonna bring up the many many fost engines that just randomly broke ring lands.

 

[Jamie Ross]

Per Wiki 380hp is concept design. 355hp is production, which nearly matches the Focus RS 350hp. There's a near 20% difference in starting price between the RS ($41k) and GLA 45 AMG ($50k).

Before assuming perfection on a build, it's always a good idea to check the forums.
http://www.glaowners.com/forum/mercedes-benz-gla45-amg-forum/

375HP PRODUCTION 2.0L (355hp was the original model a few years ago ).
So yea.... smaller engine. More power. Pulling a heavier car. That is more reliable ( no model or brand is without some set backs, but fixable issues at launch is a little different than engines that completely need replaced in 20k miles over multiple model years now.

 

[captainmorbid]

375HP PRODUCTION 2.0L (355hp was the original model a few years ago ).
So yea.... smaller engine. More power. Pulling a heavier car. That is more reliable ( no model or brand is without some set backs, but fixable issues at launch is a little different than engines that completely need replaced in 20k miles over multiple model years now.

Only advice I’ve ever been given about German automobile ownership, “sell before the warranty expires”. For what it’s worth, I lusted after Merc A Class AMG when it launched, and the only RS I want has fwd and 5 cylinders...


Sent from my iPhone using Glue and macaroni

 

[RAAMaudio]

I just bought an 03 4runner, v8, LTD, real full time AWD with low range, real off road credentials, rides and handles great, 245k miles in mint condition, no squeaks, rattles, rust with perfect maintenance history and it only had one repair outside of standard upkeep, seal leaking out of the transfer case with over 200k miles when it was done. Everything works perfectly, just a little clear fade on the fender flares and a littlecrack on the side of the drivers seat. Paid $4600 in cash and I can buy a used engine, trans, transfer case, diff, etc for cheap and easy to find since none hardly ever break, I will keep it as long as I can drive as there is simply nothing else to even compare it to.

I really like my ST but poor cooling system, HVAC flapper, temp gauge failure that lead to a broken engine and other little things that should just not be a problem on any car with 20k miles on it.

Ford is building some very inspired cars and trucks but doing some very stupid things along the way and then not taking proper care of the owners, I really cannot comprehend the idiocy of their actions.

Rick

 

[Intuit]

375HP PRODUCTION 2.0L (355hp was the original model a few years ago ).
So yea.... smaller engine. More power. Pulling a heavier car. That is more reliable ( no model or brand is without some set backs, but fixable issues at launch is a little different than engines that completely need replaced in 20k miles over multiple model years now.

Had checked several different sources before posting and they were all saying the same 355 or rounded 360. This time I went directly to the horse's mouth...
https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehi...&class=GLA&model=GLA45W4&waypoint=model-specs
<<2018 AMG GLA 45 (cross-over) SUV | Engine Handcrafted AMG 2.0L inline-4 turbo | Power 375 hp @ 6,000 rpm>>



One of prior sources...

<<The 2016 Concept GLA45 AMG with an AMG 2.0-litre four-cylinder twin-scroll turbocharged petrol engine rated 280 kW; 381 hp and 475 N·m, 4Matic all wheel drive, AMG Speedshift DCT 7-speed transmission ...........>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_GLA-Class#Engines
<<Petrol engines -- GLA 45 AMG 2014– 1,991 cc (121.5 cu in) I4 twin-scroll turbo (M 133 DE 20 AL), BorgWarner turbocharger (180 kPa (26.1 psi)) 360 PS (265 kW; 355 hp)@6000, 450 N⋅m (332 lbf⋅ft)@2250-5000 >>

lol. 18% more for a car that doesn’t need a new engine after 5-20k miles ? Or a car that has a DSG 7 speed, more power with a smaller smaller more refined engine, and a Benz interior.

I wasn’t dumb enough to buy a RS ( only dumb enough to buy a ford at all ).

Truth be told. I don’t like Mercedes much either. But it’s totally un-acceptable for the RS to have these issues. And ford fan boys can excuse it away or detract from it like STi nut swingers do about piston rings or broken driveline parts.

Look in the junk yard listings, you can find countless 1.6L engines for super cheap because ford has had this same issue since 2013 (engines built in 2012). Yet..... what is the fix ? A light on the dash to let you know you need to stop at Walgreens to buy some lube on your way to the dealer for a new engine/head. Anyone defending that or the $41k Ford Focus that needs a new engine every 20k miles it just confusing to me... the same people will go buy another ford lol.

I still love my junk ass fiesta lol, clicking HVAC actuators and all.

I’m not even gonna bring up the many many fost engines that just randomly broke ring lands.

Why don't you tell us how you *really* feel LoL!?
I don't own one and it's no skin off my back. I'm only interested in keeping things honest. The RS has a 2.3L engine. If you're saying they routinely break in 5k to 20k without severe abuse? Now I'm curious.
http://www.focusrsforum.com/forum/t...cus-RS-Head-Gasket-Issues-Has-Been-Discovered
...well if that's the case, they'll make it right... free repairs, correct?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...-gasket-issues-has-been-discovered/ar-BBHsodR
Seems they do. This wasn't a design flaw, it was a manufacturing mistake; installed the wrong head gasket. A stupid one, but they unfortunately happen, and they're attempting to make it right with folks. As far as "needing a engine every 20k", I don't know if this is the truth or not. Presumably they'd stick an engine in with the correct h-gasket after replacing the first one. One such mistake would be costly enough.

Re "countless 1.6L" in junkyards, for the local ones that keep their inventory online, stock is quiet scarce. (Earlier Escape SUV used the same 1.6L...)
https://upullandpay.com/cincinnati/search-inventory/?Make=Ford&Model=Fiesta
https://upullandpay.com/cincinnati/search-inventory/?Make=Ford&Model=Escape
Junkyards here have limited space. So they generally avoid stocking what isn't in demand. It doesn't mean they don't take them, it simply means that the crush and scrap what does come in. (or maybe trade/sell off to another yard) Personally, I think they're still yet too new for them to stock. The newer vehicles simply don't generate enough demand for anything other than exterior parts such as body-panels.

My prior vehicle was of the early bi-metal engine era. (iron block, aluminum head) Due to the vastly different expansion rates and lack of long-term accountability in testing, head gasket failures were common in bi-metal engines across all manufacturers. Early gasket designs still operated on old concepts regarding friction. Anyway, when I went to pickup my new head gasket, I took it home and compared it to my original... they didn't match. Puzzled, I took my original back with the new one, still in it's vacuum sealed plastic packaging. They handed me a gasket for the 1.8L engine instead of the 1.9L engine. Oooops. The parts guy was relieved that I caught the mistake before installing the part LoL.

 

[Jamie Ross]

4G63T motors are “bi-metal”. They seem to do ok without head gasket issues.

Just saying..... it’s 2017 ( ok 2018 for two hours now ). The excuses of 1985 have come and gone. This isn’t a dodge Omni GLH. It’s a $41k car.

“The wrong head gasket” is just a band aid to get those owners to 37k miles (the same way a low coolant light is just a band aid for our cars).

I just found my friend a 2.0L focus ST motor for $450. And I bought a 1.6L from a fiesta ST for $500. They are pretty plentiful if you know where to look. In Michigan, you can get the 1.6L from an escape for like $275 because they figure they are selling you a motor that will likely burn your car down lol. Fords fix for the escape 1.6L was a tray or shield or something that diverted oil away from the turbo when the head cracked from the hot spot. Why fix the problem when you can just collect money from them when it breaks ?

 

[me32]

Jamie Ross if the ford cars are so bad why did you buy one??? The other year ford sold more vehicles in america than any other car maker. Thats not luck. Your gonna have a few bad apples. Most *Mercedes*,BMW, ect owners dont buy they lease so they can dump those cars before they break down outside of warrenty.

 

[Intuit]

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=site:www.focusrsforum.com+head+gasket+failure
http://www.focusrsforum.com/forum/threads/226-Building-a-Bulletproof-EcoBoost
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2009/10/uncovering-the-culprits-that-cause-head-gaskets-to-fail/
<<............ In the case of the Mitsubishi 3.0L V6, the armor around the combustion
chambers on the OEM gasket has a tendency to crack. The cracking occurs
as a result of metal fatigue caused by the head scrubbing back and
forth on the block because the engine has aluminum heads and a
cast-iron block. Aluminum expands at a much higher rate than cast iron,
which causes the head surface to move more than the block surface. If
the head gasket can’t accommodate the movement, or lacks any built-in
lubricity (such as a non-stick coating), thermal expansion and
contraction can literally tear the head gasket apart as the miles
accumulate. The fix is to replace the OEM head gasket with an improved
and redesigned aftermarket head gasket that has stronger combustion
armor, better materials and an anti-friction coating that can handle
the movement. ..................>>

EDIT:
http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/12289-Poll-How-many-have-blown-a-FiST-engine

 

[Intuit]

Jamie Ross if the ford cars are so bad why did you buy one??? The other year ford sold more vehicles in america than any other car maker. Thats not luck. Your gonna have a few bad apples. Most *Mercedes*,BMW, ect owners dont buy they lease so they can dump those cars before they break down outside of warrenty.

There's a marked difference between the average dollar spent on a Ford vs most Mercedes or BMW. For the type of dime spent, a Lincoln (Ford's luxury arm) might be a more on-par comparison.

Regardless, whether the base price is a $18k or $81k, there should be a reasonable expectation of reliability and more importantly, a hassle-free experience *when* something does go wrong.

The flip-side, the company really is innocent in some portion of the cases. There are absolutely no shortage of people that abuse said product then refuse to take any responsibility for the consequences. (http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...d-feista-clutch-warranty-denied-by-ford/page2) Check this out... https://youtu.be/Y7jBnltZIrk There's no better place to test A/C than in a traffic jam or drive-through. Yet, this mechanic was dinged for "joy riding" when there was no such video evidence. He was doing his job. The mechanic did nothing wrong, but was publicly hung out to dry by reporters and management. Assuming innocence, hope he found a better place to work.

 

[Quisp]

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=site:www.focusrsforum.com+head+gasket+failure
http://www.focusrsforum.com/forum/threads/226-Building-a-Bulletproof-EcoBoost
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2009/10/uncovering-the-culprits-that-cause-head-gaskets-to-fail/
<<............ In the case of the Mitsubishi 3.0L V6, the armor around the combustion
chambers on the OEM gasket has a tendency to crack. The cracking occurs
as a result of metal fatigue caused by the head scrubbing back and
forth on the block because the engine has aluminum heads and a
cast-iron block. Aluminum expands at a much higher rate than cast iron,
which causes the head surface to move more than the block surface. If
the head gasket can’t accommodate the movement, or lacks any built-in
lubricity (such as a non-stick coating), thermal expansion and
contraction can literally tear the head gasket apart as the miles
accumulate. The fix is to replace the OEM head gasket with an improved
and redesigned aftermarket head gasket that has stronger combustion
armor, better materials and an anti-friction coating that can handle
the movement. ..................>>

EDIT:
http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/12289-Poll-How-many-have-blown-a-FiST-engine

QR25 had separate thermostat for head and block to control expansion rates.

 

[worker88]

The repair procedure is out for the Escape. It will probably be similar for our cars: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCMN-17V209-7886.pdf

 

[me32]

The repair procedure is out for the Escape. It will probably be similar for our cars: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCMN-17V209-7886.pdf

Thanks for the download

 

[me32]

There's a marked difference between the average dollar spent on a Ford vs most Mercedes or BMW. For the type of dime spent, a Lincoln (Ford's luxury arm) might be a more on-par comparison.

Regardless, whether the base price is a $18k or $81k, there should be a reasonable expectation of reliability and more importantly, a hassle-free experience *when* something does go wrong.

The flip-side, the company really is innocent in some portion of the cases. There are absolutely no shortage of people that abuse said product then refuse to take any responsibility for the consequences. (http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...d-feista-clutch-warranty-denied-by-ford/page2) Check this out... https://youtu.be/Y7jBnltZIrk There's no better place to test A/C than in a traffic jam or drive-through. Yet, this mechanic was dinged for "joy riding" when there was no such video evidence. He was doing his job. The mechanic did nothing wrong, but was publicly hung out to dry by reporters and management. Assuming innocence, hope he found a better place to work.

Thanks for the links.

 

[Ronbo]

The repair procedure is out for the Escape. It will probably be similar for our cars: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RCMN-17V209-7886.pdf

This "fix" is way more invasive than I expected.


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[Dpro]

This "fix" is way more invasive than I expected.


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Who cares how much stuff they have to remove. Fact is they are issuing stuff to do it. Fact is they are doing something about it. It's called standing behind the product and not telling the customer to take a hike.

Or are you just surprised? It sounds like your freaked? If not excuse my response.

 

[GAbOS]

It's just a sensor and new hoses right? ..to band-aid poor cooling passage in the head, or am I reading it wrong.

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