PLEASE help me diagnose this BRAKE issue! (rotational chirping/squealing)

[Seijou]

I went out for a drive with my girlfriend to record some audio/video. Previously I said it was making noise from 40MPH to 10MPH. It (now) seems to be making noise at any speed. I took two example video in a parking lot so the noise is clearly audible. As always, please listen with headphones as I think that it really helps.

Example 1 of Stopping from 35MPH in a parking lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ogGSByTww

Example 2 of Stopping from 35MPH in a parking lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrMNfjMH7k0

I'm calling ford at 7AM tomorrow, but really feel out of options. Thanks everyone for bearing with me and all of your suggestions/comments.

 

[FORZDA 2]

The noise isn't the pad-to-rotor contact. The noise is one and-only-one of the backing plates are touching the back side of the rotor. Easy fix. The original problem was likely caused by road debri or some other action that resulted in a bent/tweaked backing plate. Your dealer is staffed with idiots, although not an uncommon situation.

 

[Seijou]

The noise isn't the pad-to-rotor contact. The noise is one and-only-one of the backing plates are touching the back side of the rotor. Easy fix. The original problem was likely caused by road debri or some other action that resulted in a bent/tweaked backing plate. Your dealer is staffed with idiots, although not an uncommon situation.

FORZDA, if you would please clarify, you're talking about this item, right? Upon braking, does the backing plate somehow get moved toward (and make contact with) the rotor? (I only have noise under braking)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDE4WDUwMA==/z/cC4AAMXQrhdTVid8/$_3.JPG?set_id=2

I will mention it to them tomorrow... Hope you are right, you would be my savior.

 

[Seijou]

Update: Noise seems like its coming from both front corners (and its making an atrocious amount of noise). The right front sounds louder. I borrowed help of a friend and tools, we raised front wheels & turned them by hand. On both sides, it sounds like the rotors are warped (runout), because as you spin the wheels you can hear the pitch change as the pads contact the rotor. This doesn't make sense, since the rotors should be brand new, but we also commented that they may be within factory specification for runout. We can't tell without a dial gauge. The friend noticed on the right front, as you turn the wheel you feel more resistance at certain part of the rotor.

We also conclude it's hard to emulate any issues because the vehicle isn't under load (while jacked up).

He's a retired mechanic and had no idea. We looked at the backing plate, and decided it can't be the issue. Since that would cause consistent metallic noise regards of whether you're coasting or braking. Back to the drawing board...

They could measure hub run out with a dial indicator, but will they? Probably not. Working at a dealer myself, I've seen a lot of hacks come and go. Some shops are worse than others, I'd try a different one or contact Ford corporate. Sorry man.

Can you measure hub runout? Do you mean rotor runout?

 

[Thirty-Two]

No problem, just offering some experience.

Entire brake upgrade, meaning calipers, pads, and rotors, it was a whole kit.

Hub-run out as 1azst wrote needs somebody who really knows their stuff. It requires a really touchy calibration tool. But with Hub-run out you'll also get a pulsating and vibrating under braking. Perhaps it enough within specs that the vibrating doesn't occur but the noise does?

Rotor run-out is simply warp. Again you'll get a pulsating and vibration. But then again it may be enough under specs it won't vibrate but the noise will still be there.

I'd recommend driving for as much miles as the dealer will let you on the brakes to put some wear into them. Maybe the issue goes away and everything is fine or it becomes worse and as a result the issue should become much more apparent and obvious.

 

[Jesse]

Didn't read through your whole post sequence, but if they have machined the rotors more than once they are probably under discard already and need to be replaced along with a NEW set of pads. New cars barely give you enough room to machine one time, then it usually goes to discard after that.

Lubrication and a correct break-in of the pads/rotors are 2 very important things when dealing with brake noise.

Break-in can takeup to a couple hundred miles, its normal to hear a little noise until they are fully embedded... break-in is 30 times of 30mph to 5mph moderate braking (not hard) if you overheat pads and rotors during break-in you are going to have brake noise throughout the life of the pad.

LUbrication needs to be applyed at all sliding points of the brake pad (mostly just the ends that fit into the caliper bracket and caliper hold points & piston to back of each brake pad)

 

[Seijou]

Didn't read through your whole post sequence, but if they have machined the rotors more than once they are probably under discard already and need to be replaced along with a NEW set of pads. New cars barely give you enough room to machine one time, then it usually goes to discard after that.

Lubrication and a correct break-in of the pads/rotors are 2 very important things when dealing with brake noise.

Break-in can takeup to a couple hundred miles, its normal to hear a little noise until they are fully embedded... break-in is 30 times of 30mph to 5mph moderate braking (not hard) if you overheat pads and rotors during break-in you are going to have brake noise throughout the life of the pad.

LUbrication needs to be applyed at all sliding points of the brake pad (mostly just the ends that fit into the caliper bracket and caliper hold points & piston to back of each brake pad)

This last service included new front rotors (after previous ones were cut twice). I don't have documentation stating so, but that's what I was told. I am asking for the service documentation for my own records.

I hope and assume the tech is doing all proper lubrication. I have asked about this previous and their response seem to be something along the lines of "of course we do that stuff."

Not 'a little noise'... IMHO, an atrocious amount of noise. Not sure what to do. Have not been able to contact Ford this morning (although I have tried).

 

[wspec]

I would try replacing the hub bearing, those sounds can easily come out of the bearing. And depending on how a bearing is going out you may get noises under acceleration or under braking or can vary depending on the current heat of the bearing.

 

[Seijou]

I would try replacing the hub bearing, those sounds can easily come out of the bearing. And depending on how a bearing is going out you may get noises under acceleration or under braking or can vary depending on the current heat of the bearing.

I just got off the phone with Ford and suggested replacement of the hub bearing or hub, but they said 'that would be more of a growl'. I made an appointment and I'm taking the car in tomorrow, here we go again... At least they are trying...

 

[wspec]

I just got off the phone with Ford and suggested replacement of the hub bearing or hub, but they said 'that would be more of a growl'. I made an appointment and I'm taking the car in tomorrow, here we go again... At least they are trying...

I have had 3 hub bearing failures on mine and you sure as shit can get squeeks

 

[Seijou]

Could you confirm it sounds exactly (or similar) to the noise in my YouTube videos (Post #21 at the top of page 3)?

 

[Seijou]

I dropped off the FiST at the dealer today. I spoke with the tech briefly, and he (visibly frustrated) said he had no idea at this point. I brought up the hub, hub bearing, and calipers but he thinks those issues would be unlikely. He will contact Ford Hotline.

Edit: Took some videos this morning on the way to the dealer. Sounds like it is getting worse.

Another example of 30 to stop - lots of 'chirping', sounds like a ton of birds, and some low growling scraping sound at very low speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMe_lDwWSKM

35 to Stop on downhill incline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blYGRpJ3GEE

Another edit: for some reason, when I upload to youtube it really ruins the sound quality. The sound is very obvious and loud in person. As always, please use headphones if you're listening. It really helps.

 

[boocake]

Seijou,

Which dealer in SD are you bringing your ride in for work?

 

[BlueBullet]

The hub bearings explains nearly all of your symptoms. Specifically the change in frequency as you change speed.

 

[Seijou]

Seijou,

Which dealer in SD are you bringing your ride in for work?

Sorry, I don't think it's appropriate to disclose.

The hub bearings explains nearly all of your symptoms. Specifically the change in frequency as you change speed.

I wanted them to use a dial gauge to check for excess play (above factory specification) in the hub and/or check for issues with the hub bearing (I guess the latter is very hard to do, you either pull it out entirely or leave it in). The tech responded, "if it was the hub or hub bearing, the noise would occur at any speed, not just while braking". The noise I have only occurs while I am braking. I think braking is putting a greater load at each wheel and possibly the best explanation for my issue...

I think they also mentioned that I should have pulling to one side if one hub is bad (not sure if bearing would cause any left or right pull).

They have been test driving the vehicle after each brake service, and each time they reported the issue was resolve. But by the time I drive it home, the issue comes back. Sometimes, by the time I leave their parking lot it comes back. They questioned this, but I am not trying to waste their time (or mine). I wonder if excess play is messing up the brake components (warping the rotors and putting uneven wear on the pads, etc.) One thing I know for sure is that it seems to be getting worse.

 

[boocake]

Sorry, I don't think it's appropriate to disclose.

No worries, I didn't mean to thread-jack. I just got my car from a dealer in Los Angeles directly, so I'm just not familiar with SD dealers in general for decent servicing.

 

[Seijou]

No worries, I didn't mean to thread-jack. I just got my car from a dealer in Los Angeles directly, so I'm just not familiar with SD dealers in general for decent servicing.

I understand, I just didn't want to point any fingers. The dealer (and Ford Corporate) have been trying to resolve the issue.

I appreciate all of the help from members who have responded and tried to help me troubleshoot. If you guys have any other suggestions, comments, etc. please by all means post them. I really just want to have the issue fixed.

 

[Seijou]

Update: I received the vehicle back this morning. They told me there was dried paint on brake components (brake pads) and slight glazing of rotor. Driver's side front. Explanation for paint contamination was from the roads. This, supposedly, was causing all of my brake noise.

[Side note.. Previous to this (during the last service)... I picked up the car on Saturday morning. Drove it home and as soon as got off the freeway, I started hearing squeaking right away. I'm not sure how contamination can occur during that commute. I didn't call dealer that same day because my normal service advisor was out of the office. I decided I would call Monday morning. Needless to say, I was very confused -- I didn't think the reason they gave me was the culprit.]

Service performed: Pads were cleaned and rotors received slight resurface. They test drove and found no noise. I asked them to bed-in the pads.

I came this morning to pick up the vehicle and express some uncertainty (and a lot of confusion) about the whole story. I told the service advisor I would drive it around the block once or twice to see if the noise is still there, and if it was, I will head back to the office. No more waiting until I get home, and no more calling the next day. Instead, my policy now is to test it thoroughly as I can and bring it back to the office immediately, as this takes blame off my shoulders.

I left the driveway and heard the same noise issue on three occurrences while driving down a short distance down the street. Kept driving and the same familiar noise became more and more frequent. I headed back, grabbed service advisor, and we went for a drive. I was able to reproduce the noise on almost every braking occasion (accelerate safety to 40 and start braking). Noise had been cut down about 60% since last time, but still definitely present and issue has not been resolved. Still chirping like there are a lot of birds in my brakes. I keep thinking it's something other than my brakes BUT is affected by increased load on the front wheels (which is occurring during braking), and also when going downhill (and braking). Left the car with them.

I was told that they didn't know what to do. They tried everything. I am hoping they will start investigating other components of the suspension. I suggested hub, hub bearing, CV joint, etc.

If ya'll got suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

[wspec]

Could you confirm it sounds exactly (or similar) to the noise in my YouTube videos (Post #21 at the top of page 3)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvlS4ufPC9E

 

[Seijou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvlS4ufPC9E

wspec -- Thanks for your video!

Can you clarify a few things?

1- In the video, are you accelerating and then braking? Or accelerating, and then just coasting?
2- At what speed(s) were you traveling in this video?
3- Does your squeak 'frequency' change based on your speed? Does the pitch of the squeak ever change? (My squeak is associated with speed, so if I'm traveling fast and then braking, it will be a rapid repetitive squeak with a certain pitch. As I slow down, you can hear the squeak occurrence decrease with slight pitch change).

I notice some similarities and some differences, but it's really hard to say definitely based on the video. Your clarification will help!