Fiesta ST autocross accident

[Ford ST]

Why would I sell a car I love? A car I have pushed extremely hard on mountain roads at high speeds, and the car never complained.

I'm sorry for your friend, but he modified the car in a poor way and chose to push it as hard as he could in a parking lot. What someone does in a parking lot with a modified car does not apply to how the car behaves on the road. Parking lot racing is a lot different than a track. Parking lot racing is a lot different than having fun on a back road they are not the same. He put probably the worse springs he could put on the car, he put a over grippy tire with a thick sidewall and he dug in and it pulled the car over. Yes it is a little top heavy, but all of this could have been prevented with different modifications.

I've had this car for over three and a half years. I have seen many people modify the hell out of these things drag racing, track racing, parking lot racing and back road racing.


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[The_Ryan]

Why would I sell a car I love? A car I have pushed extremely hard on mountain roads at high speeds, and the car never complained.

I'm sorry for your friend, but he modified the car in a poor way and chose to push it as hard as he could in a parking lot. What someone does in a parking lot with a modified car does not apply to how the car behaves on the road. Parking lot racing is a lot different than a track. Parking lot racing is a lot different than having fun on a back road they are not the same. He put probably the worse springs he could put on the car, he put a over grippy tire with a thick sidewall and he dug in and it pulled the car over. Yes it is a little top heavy, but all of this could have been prevented with different modifications.

I've had this car for over three and a half years. I have seen many people modify the hell out of these things drag racing, track racing, parking lot racing and back road racing.


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While I agree with most of your points here, in his defense, he was specifically warning people about auto-xing the car. Maybe the conversation should be steered from “don’t auto-x your Fiesta” to ”How to safely auto-x your Fiesta“.

 

[Ford ST]

While I agree with most of your points here, in his defense, he was specifically warning people about auto-xing the car. Maybe the conversation should be steered from “don’t auto-x your Fiesta” to ”How to safely auto-x your Fiesta“.

If you're working in the kitchen and using a knife can you cut your finger off yes you can. Does that mean you shouldn't use knives of course not. Everything has a risk parking lot racing has a risk.

Now I do agree with you the conversation should be changed to how to safely do this. Maybe even a list of parts to not install that includes the crappy springs he put on that car. I personally hate that brand they try to make springs for every car on the planet but they are not good.

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[CSM]

The reason I posted the incident is that I don't think it is a good idea to autocross a FiST. If my Type R could roll just by turning the steering wheel I would sell it.

If you truly feel that way, you should file a request with SCCA here https://www.crbscca.com/.

 

[The_Ryan]

48 second mark, it looks like the rear caught that patched pot-hole mess there. If the rear can't slide, I presume any car will flip.

View attachment 37318

@the duke brings a good point about the base Fiesta. Regarding the Fiesta ST, a lot of people make changes to wheels, tires and suspension without fully understanding the results of such changes. After damaging a rim, I just bought slightly larger sidewall tires but I don't autocross. Never the less, I'll do some parking lot exercises to get a feel for the limits and changes to handling characteristics. On stock setup, it does nothing but slide.

Playing back at 0.25x speed it totally looked like it did

 

[M-Sport fan]

I personally hate that brand they try to make springs for every car on the planet but they are not good.

Their coil over sized/use springs are not too bad, but yeah, I personally would never use their OEM replacement/factory sized, progressive rate springs on anything.

 

[pixelzombie]

Glad he's ok, but that looked awful. I've yet to find the breaking point of this vehicle, which is why I'm careful despite my very spirited driving. I'll be curious to hear which mods that would contribute to this happening.

 

[Dpro]

To the OP I am glad your friend is ok. But.. like others have said your friend made some bad choices sorry if that bothers you that I point it out.

First off its well known that the Eibach lowering springs pretty much suck. Its also well known that RE71’s are some of the stickiest tires in autocross and should be put on a car with more suspension then your friend had. I can also attest to the fact that our cars may not even need a rear sway. I have run both with one and without out.
I would add to me this is ( eibach springs on stock shocks or even Koni’s with a eibach rear sway and RE71r’s ) a bad suspension combo in the making.

I also agree with what others pointed out about the condition of what is obviously an old airport runway and the patched pothole section.

These factors all add up to a poorly setup car on a pretty poor surface. The factory setup stock was set to perform at a pretty damn decent extent.

Having driven in a factory setup FiST in a Autocross enviroment at Octane Academy(they did have cages in the cars) I can attest to A its fun and B I prefer track and canyons to Auotcross myself.
Now with that said ya there are people who get the cars on two wheels at Autocross championships and those guys are actually on the forum and knowingly go for it.
Its kinda of a kids do not do this at home only professionals thing.

Any car can be dangerous in the inexperienced hands or with not thought out mods. Then pushed to the extreme.

I appreciate you wanting to come out and warn people but it also comes off by your own words as some kind of evangelical type ( Ralph Nader comes to mind) crusade.
I will also say one has to know ones limits and learn to be able to read the car. Not saying crashes won’t happen Formula 1 car drivers crash their cars. It kinda comes with the territory and is an expected part of racing.
You race you know there is a chance for crashing, be it rollovers or missing a apex or underbraking and going off.

I am not discounting the fact that the FiST can roll over. Only that one should not drive it in a performance situation just because that possibility is there. Fact is its driven in Pro Rally to quite a lot of wins. Its fast on the track as well .

Perhaps it should be more of a do not autocross this car without the knowledge of the fact situation. As it seems to be this kinda of thing only seems to be happening in Autocross. Oh and the one time the Vudu (AET racing) guys in England rolled theirs in a race pushing it so hard it was nuts.

 

[David Price]

I am very sorry that a started this thread. It was my first on this forum and it will be my last.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I DO appreciate the 'PSA', even though I will never autocross this car myself (more so for the crappy 'coin to seat time' factors involved with my local SCCA region's entry fees, than any actual fear of a rollover ).

No one on here has gotten too acerbic with you about the post (IMHO) to give up any/all discussions on the topic, so PLEASE stay!

 

[Ecmdrw5]

Sorry to hear about your friend and I’m glad he’ll be okay. Do we know what his speed was at the time of roll over?

Vehicle suspension has to be setup to handle weight transfer also, not just to maximize grip.

What I see is a combination of things. Yes our cars are narrower but those combination of springs and tires along with speed and a patchy spot in the concrete. Yes I think that played a part. I watched it 6 times on reduced speeds and if the back tires don’t hit it at the exact moment the roll over happened, they come very very close.

Still less risk than doing track days in a R1. I’ve never flipped a car but I’ve binned a ZX6R.


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[The_Ryan]

I am very sorry that a started this thread. It was my first on this forum and it will be my last.

I hope not. I don‘t think we mean to be so negative or to push you away. I think the conversation you brought up was important to talk about and important to think about and reflect on for all of us. I feel most people here certainly feel that way and appreciated you for starting this thread.

Thank you again.

 

[FORZDA 2]

My friend rolled his FiST at an autocross last year. He and I both want everyone to know that the car will roll with just steering input. He ended up on the roof after 3 and a half rolls. Took more than 20 minutes to free him from the wreak. He survived, but incurred significant financial loss since the car was totaled and hospital bills were high.
View: https://youtu.be/mtS3-uSTx4c

Just watched your friend's video. As a 50+ year autocrosser with many win trophies with my `91 Escort GT, several wins with my 2014 FiST, I can tell you for sure that your friend's car setup is/was wrong for the high speed slalom with his severe, rapid steering inputs PLUS if he was more experienced, he would not have carried so much speed into the slalom that required him to make such large steering inputs to try and avoid the cones. You seldom make up time in a slalom, but you can sure lose a lot trying to carry too much speed.

Almost every car that rolls in that manner had several causal factors in setup and driver. I've seen first-hand several rollovers almost identical to it. If I could inspect his car, I could determine the exact cause, but all I can do from here is an educated guess.

Although most people don't do it and don't realize the actual need on ANY FWD car is a HUGE front sway bar. There are a plethora of reasons, but I'll stay within the context of this incident. The big front bar prevents the severe front corner nose diving on initial cornering input left and/or right. The severe front angular suspension compressions and the rapid reversal of steering input causes the suspension to go into the left/right rebounding that lifts the rear of the car over the front. Think of a twisting resonant frequency reaction in the chassis.

Like I said, there are MANY cars that will roll with improper setup, even on street tires. Mostly when people just bolt-on aftermarket parts without considering the whole package. I can't check from here, but with his lack of giant front bar, he should have the front Koni yellows cranked up to max.

 

[Intuit]

This setup doesn't look right either... I mean, wow...

View: https://youtu.be/F69KIVqr7PQ?t=496

 

[LionsTooth]

This setup doesn't look right either... I mean, wow...

View: https://youtu.be/F69KIVqr7PQ?t=496

Yikes....his/her initial turn-in is scary. Crank-a-handful, saw, saw. Oh, man.

 

[kevinatfms]

This setup doesn't look right either... I mean, wow...

View: https://youtu.be/F69KIVqr7PQ?t=496

That is 100% driver. What an idiot.

 

[Ecmdrw5]

What time are we looking at?


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[Intuit]

That is 100% driver. What an idiot.

Watch it from the beginning at slower speeds. The amount of steering input just doesn't match typical vehicle response. That setup is altered for sure.

 

[PunkST]

Funny, ive run 195 width r comps on a stock fist with zero problems. Also run higher rear tire pressure. Car can get the back loose no matter the circumstances. That may also be how i drive. Keeping the car a bit loose has its advantages. Id rather spin out than tumble over. And i drive like i want it to break if im tracking it.

 

[Jabbit]

Glad your friend is OK after that.