Fiesta ST Intercooler Info Thread

[CanadianGuy]

Most importantly what the hell are they talking about "Removal of the vehicles original cooling pack and using a larger intercooler core would cause a dramatic increase in engine coolant temperature" This is the first I have heard of this from anyone installing different intercoolers.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

The concept is that a large intercooler would block more of the fresh air going straight to the radiator. The air would first hit the FMIC, warm up, than hit the radiator sitting behind the FMIC. There is only so much real estate in the nose. Now the rate of affect on the radiator is up for debate but if you notice large rigs in winter they have partial blankets/covers on the radiator cowls to hold the heat in. The inverse would be true. Lastly the nose of the FiST is not as open as one thinks. The Honeycomb are only half open and the bumper guard for the airbag detect is quite a huge blocking even more air to the radiator. The deadhook solution for FMIC and crash bar LINKY replacement is a great option to address this but the honeycomb grill still needs to be opened.

Hope this clears up the statement. Not saying I agree with the "dramatic" part though

 

[RAAMaudio]

The main thing would be removing what seals the air flow to the IC and radiator and not putting it back in or making new parts to maintain a proper seal allowing air to escape around the IC and other coolers.

I believe it quite important to not only seal what air comes in to ensure it flows where it is needed but also to increase the air flow as in opening up more of the grill and or area in front of the IC.

Just swapping parts, not doing the above, certainly likely to have a negative effect, taking steps like above will negate or even improve the results.

UP TO A POINT, then a larger radiator and or oil cooler come into play as the HP goes up and the IC size increases.

Some might get away with things but not all will I am sure, why I am taking care of it all now, radiator, oil cooler, ducting, air flow, and heat wrapping and a big arse IC as my car will see very hard use on road race tracks in all kinds of weather.

 

[Siestarider]

I have intercooler data and thought maybe some data would add value to this thread. Or not, you decide.

Cobb S3, 93 oct fuel, 2J DP, Cobb IC, Mountune intake, fog vents opened up, I logged 6 laps at PBIR running as hard as my reflexes allow. Ambient temp 80 F, CAT at idle waiting in line for green hit high of 98 F, similar to what I see with this setup in heavy stop/go traffic on street.

Charge air temps on track varied from 86 F to 97 F, highest temps on back straight in 5th gear over 5000 rpm WOT. WOT 4th gear CAT max 93 at 5000 rpm. WOT 3rd CAT max 90 F at 5000 rpm.

I just picked 5000 rpm out of spreadsheet because I was always at WOT before and after in every gear on every lap, so temps are stable.

I conclude the Cobb IC works pretty well for tracking. Will learn more at Sebring next month.

Then going to work with Matt at Panda on some tunes, see if Cobb IC becomes a limiting factor with stock turbo in our hot humid climate. Or not.

 

[Sourskittle]

What day you going to Sebring?

 

[Siestarider]

May 2 and 3, but on NASA waiting list so not certain yet.

 

[Young L]

im lost on what this donut thing is people are referring too.

 

[dyn085]

im lost on what this donut thing is people are referring too.

It's a resonator in the hot-side charge pipe. People think it impedes flow despite it being fully open for air to pass through. It's about a foot downstream of the turbo and looks like a small coffee can in the charge pipe.

Edit-If you zoom in on the pipe right in front of the FMIC, you can see the resonator just to the left of the black section of pipe.

 

[iso100]

im lost on what this donut thing is people are referring too.

It's a resonator on the hot side charge pipe designed to reduce turbo noise.

 

[Young L]

ahh so changing that pipe with a ATP or full Cobb kit takes it out then?

 

[Sourskittle]

I think the biggest concern about the dough nut isn't so much about flow resistance as it is about turbulence. Weather or not its worth messing with is debatable, and its still an un-answered question. I think depending on your mod/power level, I wouldn't be looking at it with a stock turbo unless i had pretty much maxed the car out on other mods. I'm actually still running it on my car right now.

 

[BrokenSVT]

My Panda intercooler is on the way! Yay!

 

[dyn085]

ahh so changing that pipe with a ATP or full Cobb kit takes it out then?

Correct.

I think the biggest concern about the dough nut isn't so much about flow resistance as it is about turbulence. Weather or not its worth messing with is debatable, and its still an un-answered question. I think depending on your mod/power level, I wouldn't be looking at it with a stock turbo unless i had pretty much maxed the car out on other mods. I'm actually still running it on my car right now.

I would hardly consider it debatable as ATP has even said that it's not going to affect flow and there is no legitimate datalogging evidence to the contrary. If someone wants to waste $20-30 removing it for no reason or is planning/preparing for a big-turbo application is one thing, but thinking it's going to do anything other than affect noise on the OEM turbo is another.

 

[Sourskittle]

Correct.



I would hardly consider it debatable as ATP has even said that it's not going to affect flow and there is no legitimate datalogging evidence to the contrary. If someone wants to waste $20-30 removing it for no reason or is planning/preparing for a big-turbo application is one thing, but thinking it's going to do anything other than affect noise on the OEM turbo is another.

Your the one always asking for numbers... Show me numbers proving it doesn't do anything to a stg3 car. Other wise... It is debatable (until proven otherwise). But I'm not interested in debating it because I don't care.

 

[Sekred]

One of the first things I did was to replace this compressor outlet pipe. The first time I look at it I thought WTF is that. Its not only the resonator thing but the rubber hose and extra joint making what should be a single tube into two tubes plus stepped changes in diameter, 1.5" to 2.125" over its length.
Is it restrictive?, stick it on a flow bench and gets some numbers.

 

[antarctica24]

Hey,

I saw your picture you posted about creating the one piece air splitter and covering up the engine. Nice move, you beat me to it. So in regards to my previous question, now that the bottom is sealed, if you had a bigger intercooler, and opened up the hood to create a vacuum to draw air out, would the size of the IC matter at that point? Whats your thoughts? I have been eyeballing the race cars with the vents on the sides of the hood/fenders as a potential exit for air under the hood if I decide to block off the whole undercarriage.

 

[dyn085]

Your the one always asking for numbers... Show me numbers proving it doesn't do anything to a stg3 car. Other wise... It is debatable (until proven otherwise). But I'm not interested in debating it because I don't care.

You can say you're not interested in debating it because you don't care, but you're still trying to defend it and are, in turn, debating it.

Why would I datalog it when ATP has already said it isn't a restriction? I datalog to verify gains, not the lack thereof. No one that legitimately understands what they're talking about would think there is a gain to be had be replacing the resonator.

As taken directly from their charge pipe description (also posted by Koozy in post #121)-

*NOTE: ATP Turbo high flow charge air pipe NOT recommended or necessary for Fiesta ST owners without turbo upgrade plans. Stock charge pipe system provides adequate flow for stock turbo and bolt-on performance modifications.*

Considering the fact that they, being the manufacturer of the part, could have easily attempted to mislead people into thinking it would promote gains for sales and didn't, I'm much more likely to believe them over someone that thinks you can add four 5hp mods to get an additional 20 hp. If they can't recommend changing the entire hot side pipe for a larger diameter to get gains, I don't know why you would think it's reasonable to only swap a foot out of the OEM section to get them.

 

[Sourskittle]

The stock air intake is also not a restriction. Well.... Unless you mod the car.

 

[dyn085]

The stock air intake is also not a restriction. Well.... Unless you mod the car.

Stock intake.

Considering the fact that I've seen plenty of logs from members that have substantially higher numbers on the stock intake, it definitely doesn't seem to be a restriction on a modified car. Again, the FiST community is wrought with misinformation, there's no need to spread more.

I'm sure there's a good reason that there are no datalogs to substantiate a hp gain from the resonator delete.

 

[iso100]

I was looking at some old logs today after uploading a recent one. Decided to look at my charge temps for a 3rd gear pull on the stock intercooler.

I measured a 29?F rise in charge temps with the stock intercooler on Stage 1.

With the Mishimoto J-Line I saw 3?F rise and that's pushing 24psi.

Amazeballs.

 

[Sekred]

Stock intake.

Considering the fact that I've seen plenty of logs from members that have substantially higher numbers on the stock intake, it definitely doesn't seem to be a restriction on a modified car. Again, the FiST community is wrought with misinformation, there's no need to spread more.

I'm sure there's a good reason that there are no datalogs to substantiate a hp gain from the resonator delete.

Hi Dyno

So what are we looking at with the AP here?
I'm interested in how it shows restriction in the intake system?.