Turbo Technics S280

[wetwea33]

Hate to be the one but not true that only applies to the Fost and the RS you can upgrade JUST the injectors and see some gains on the fiesta but the HPFP by itself is not enough ... just finished installing and dyno tuning my HPFP needless to say a week later and injectors went in and also DYNO tuned deff need both or aux

Depends all on the turbo and fuel mixture. The hpfp is defiently the limiting factor. You can stretch the stock hpfp with the injectors. It would be best to do both at the same time.

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[SwissLime]

From Whoosh:

At last a set of direct drop in injectors to suit the new 1.6 Ecoboost engine. With an additional flow rate of 30% these units are intended for all very high powered 1.6 Ecoboost engines.

• Will fuel up to 350whp on Stock HPFP fuel Pump (in good condition)
• Compatible with ALL fuel types

It sounds like if the goal is 300hp or something closer to that rather than 275, that injectors alone could help the fuel system get you there without the need for aux. Does that sound right?

Ideally my end goal is to have the upgraded hpfp in addition to the injectors one day further down the road and make 350ish.

 

[Eddie0513]

Depends all on the turbo and fuel mixture. The hpfp is defiently the limiting factor. You can stretch the stock hpfp with the injectors. It would be best to do both at the same time.

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yeah i have the whoosh hybrid (for now) i did just the HPFP first, we were tuning on ethanol and the HPFP by itself wasnt enough to tune for E50 also no gains were had on E30 its kind of a new discovery with the upgrade but injectors are still a limiting factor top end my tuner talked to the owner of XDI and also consulted with adam seems like we cant get away with just a HPFP upgrade

 

[Eddie0513]

From Whoosh:

At last a set of direct drop in injectors to suit the new 1.6 Ecoboost engine. With an additional flow rate of 30% these units are intended for all very high powered 1.6 Ecoboost engines.

• Will fuel up to 350whp on Stock HPFP fuel Pump (in good condition)
• Compatible with ALL fuel types

It sounds like if the goal is 300hp or something closer to that rather than 275, that injectors alone could help the fuel system get you there without the need for aux. Does that sound right?

Ideally my end goal is to have the upgraded hpfp in addition to the injectors one day further down the road and make 350ish.

thats sounds about right ofcourse take in to factor elevation/fuel type etc.. if you have access to ethanol id do that with the injectors

 

[ywgbandit]

I think one of the big advantages to Aux Fuel, besides more fuel, is the fact the back side of intake valves get washed. This helps to prevents the carbon build up and the possibility of detonation from that build up. It's such an issue that all the 2021 Fords that have direct injected engines are going to also have some kind of port or throttle body injection too. I think this is a much safer way to make power, because more HPFP pressure or bigger injectors won't help prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves....and that could grenade an engine that's putting out big hp. Just my opinion

 

[ywgbandit]

I've read through the 72 pages of this thread at least twice now, I understand I should expect 270 to 285ish or something like that on the stock fueling system when I put my newly purchased S280 on my car. I'm curious though where the bottleneck lies with fueling in these cars, would upgrading the HPFP give me more room on its own, would just the uprated injectors do the same, do I need both to get more out of this turbo? From everything I'm reading it sounds like the best solutions involve aux fuel however I'm not sure that is the route I want to take.

I think one of the big advantages to Aux Fuel, besides more fuel, is the fact the back side of intake valves get washed. This helps to prevents the carbon build up and the possibility of detonation from that build up. It's such an issue that all the 2021 Fords that have direct injected engines are going to also have some kind of port or throttle body injection too. I think this is a much safer way to make power, because more HPFP pressure or bigger injectors won't help prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves....and that could grenade an engine that's putting out big hp. Just my opinion

 

[MagnetiseST]

I think one of the big advantages to Aux Fuel, besides more fuel, is the fact the back side of intake valves get washed. This helps to prevents the carbon build up and the possibility of detonation from that build up. It's such an issue that all the 2021 Fords that have direct injected engines are going to also have some kind of port or throttle body injection too. I think this is a much safer way to make power, because more HPFP pressure or bigger injectors won't help prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves....and that could grenade an engine that's putting out big hp. Just my opinion

Alternatively you could look at the VW guys who go 100k before cleaning their valves manually, making shit tons more power than we do. If you can keep the intake and charge pipes free of oil, the carbon will take longer to build up.

I think this is such a terrible reason to list as a boon to aux. Aux requires running a system entirely independent of the ECU, the aux does not "speak" to the factory computer in any way at all. This begs for long term issues, if connectors come loose or anything at all happens its not like your CEL will pop on and let you know. You will just blow the engine. The "guardian angel" system only works for over boost issues, it does not prevent against aux failures. Are they common? Probably not but I don't think there is anyone who has been doing extreme amounts of driving with it. Single port kits can backfire into the intake manifold and blow it apart (that has happened), 4pa is arguably better, but still lacks communication with the OE ecu. Until there is an option where the aux injectors / system can communicate with the same ECU that runs the engine, I'm not interested.

In my opinion you are more likely to blow your engine up from an aux fuel related failure / issue vs carbon build up. You will notice the signs of carbon build up long before you damage anything, but an aux fuel kit could just decide to not work properly one day and then *boom*

 

[wetwea33]

I think one of the big advantages to Aux Fuel, besides more fuel, is the fact the back side of intake valves get washed. This helps to prevents the carbon build up and the possibility of detonation from that build up. It's such an issue that all the 2021 Fords that have direct injected engines are going to also have some kind of port or throttle body injection too. I think this is a much safer way to make power, because more HPFP pressure or bigger injectors won't help prevent the carbon build up on the intake valves....and that could grenade an engine that's putting out big hp. Just my opinion

Your gonna get carbon cleanup from running ethanol from either. The all di route is 100% the more reliable and more efficient way to go. The split second controllers are literally from the 90s. It's old tech and having 2 separate ecus is dumb.

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[Dpro]

Your gonna get carbon cleanup from running ethanol from either. The all di route is 100% the more reliable and more efficient way to go. The split second controllers are literally from the 90s. It's old tech and having 2 separate ecus is dumb.

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This is a pretty solid conclusion that a lot do not take into account. I would say its spot on. If our cars had come with port injection beside DI like on the MK8 it would make sense as its all tied into the factory ECU.
I did not stop to think about this before now and I do not think a lot do.

 

[ywgbandit]

If I had E85 or meth available I'd probably go that route to, but I don't. I actually have to drive an hour one way to buy 93 octane fuel. I have ordered some Boostane to try, so that I can convert 91 octane to 100. The fact that that controller has been around since the 90's I see as a plus. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If the aux fuel controller took over from the ECU I'd be worried, but it doesn't, it only augments it and it does address a know issue. If I had read on this or any other forum that guys were blowing up their engines because of an Aux Fuel system failure or known issue I'd have gone another way. I haven't read anything negative about Aux-Fuel other than unsubstantiated opinion. If you know of an actual issue, I would very much like to read about it? My car is street only daily driver for the summer, no track time or sustained high rpm. I was having a timing issue with #3 cyl and my engine only has 12K miles on it. I pulled the intake manifold and I could not believe how much carbon had already adheared to all the intake valves. It took me 4 hours with a spray cleaner and scraper and three brass brushes to clean it all off. If my Whoosh Aux-Fuel doesn't do anything more than keep the valves clean, it's worth it for me.

 

[MagnetiseST]

If I had E85 or meth available I'd probably go that route to, but I don't. I actually have to drive an hour one way to buy 93 octane fuel. I have ordered some Boostane to try, so that I can convert 91 octane to 100.

I will never believe that an octane booster can raise the octane that high. Maybe 93 > 96 ish but not 91 > 100. Their website advertises 91 > 110 oct. I do not buy that at all.

The fact that that controller has been around since the 90's I see as a plus. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If the aux fuel controller took over from the ECU I'd be worried, but it doesn't, it only augments it and it does address a know issue.

OEM ECUs were not as complex back in the day, but it was easier to run a SSAFC than it was to re-program the OE ECU. Current ECU tech allows for far greater manipulation and control than that system does. I was speaking to my tuner about getting an aux fuel system to communicate with the factory ecu, and it just can't be done. With a stand alone like Syvecs or something it certainly can be though. "If it ain't broke dont fix it" works great for tried and tested tech, but applying 90s tech to cars built in the last 5 or so years is like using a horse to pull your car around, it works but its inefficient. SSAFCs are "batch fire" controllers, that means all 4 injectors spray at the same time and can pool fuel up on the cylinders that are closed, combine that with no way to monitor it directly is asking for trouble eventually.

If I had read on this or any other forum that guys were blowing up their engines because of an Aux Fuel system failure or known issue I'd have gone another way. I haven't read anything negative about Aux-Fuel other than unsubstantiated opinion. If you know of an actual issue, I would very much like to read about it?

There have been issues with the single ports, as far as intake side backfires. The same goes for meth injection if the backfire happens while its spraying. I believe in time there will be failures of some type, whether it be the hose, pump, injector seals etc. Its an additional point of (potentially major) failure in the car and I don't think its worth it anymore.

My car is street only daily driver for the summer, no track time or sustained high rpm. I was having a timing issue with #3 cyl and my engine only has 12K miles on it. I pulled the intake manifold and I could not believe how much carbon had already adheared to all the intake valves. It took me 4 hours with a spray cleaner and scraper and three brass brushes to clean it all off. If my Whoosh Aux-Fuel doesn't do anything more than keep the valves clean, it's worth it for me.

Well thats your opinion and we all have our own. If you don't want to undo the minimal amount of bolts to remove the IM and clean it every once in a while, well ok. My partners fiesta has 75k miles on it, we took the IM off at 52k to check it out and it was fairly clean. Minimal build up that i scraped off with a flat head and some carb cleaner, maybe some sustained high RPM would help you out since its well known to assist in preventing carbon build up.

In the end its personal preference. Before the 30% injectors and pump existed this was the only option, understandably so, but it has taken off in application here vs not as popular overseas and no one knows why.

 

[ywgbandit]

I will never believe that an octane booster can raise the octane that high. Maybe 93 > 96 ish but not 91 > 100. Their website advertises 91 > 110 oct. I do not buy that at all.

Oil refineries use additives to raise the Octane rating of pump fuel, so why not as an additive? There are some good you tube videos of Dyno shops testing the Boostane and getting even higher octane. Of course at some point there is a diminishing return and the cost outweighs the advantage. I haven't received it yet, so I can't comment on personal experience yet.

OEM ECUs were not as complex back in the day, but it was easier to run a SSAFC than it was to re-program the OE ECU. Current ECU tech allows for far greater manipulation and control than that system does. I was speaking to my tuner about getting an aux fuel system to communicate with the factory ecu, and it just can't be done. With a stand alone like Syvecs or something it certainly can be though. "If it ain't broke dont fix it" works great for tried and tested tech, but applying 90s tech to cars built in the last 5 or so years is like using a horse to pull your car around, it works but its inefficient. SSAFCs are "batch fire" controllers, that means all 4 injectors spray at the same time and can pool fuel up on the cylinders that are closed, combine that with no way to monitor it directly is asking for trouble eventually.

If the Aux Fuel controller took over from the OEM ECU I'd be worried, but for my application where it is supplementing the OEM fuel system and because of where I live it's really my only option.

There have been issues with the single ports, as far as intake side backfires. The same goes for meth injection if the backfire happens while its spraying. I believe in time there will be failures of some type, whether it be the hose, pump, injector seals etc. Its an additional point of (potentially major) failure in the car and I don't think its worth it anymore.

Putting a bigger turbo on is also a big risk, but it's one a lot of us are willing to take...pro's and con's for every modification we make to our cars. I'm not racing my car and for my application the Aux Fuel works...I'm not saying it's for everyone. I am saying that I have not read about issues with Aux Fuel for my kind of application. If evidence exists I'd like to see it. I also trust Ron @ Whoosh. I don't think he'd market a pice of kit that was prone to failure...he's too much of a straight shooter.

Well thats your opinion and we all have our own. If you don't want to undo the minimal amount of bolts to remove the IM and clean it every once in a while, well ok. My partners fiesta has 75k miles on it, we took the IM off at 52k to check it out and it was fairly clean. Minimal build up that i scraped off with a flat head and some carb cleaner, maybe some sustained high RPM would help you out since its well known to assist in preventing carbon build up.

I have only put 3K miles on the car since I bought it used with very low mileage. I have no idea what fuel was used prior to me owning it, I do know the build up on the valves was severe for the mileage and I have better things to do with my time that scrape intake valves.

In the end its personal preference. Before the 30% injectors and pump existed this was the only option, understandably so, but it has taken off in application here vs not as popular overseas and no one knows why.[

It is personal preference and I'm only looking for 300 whp. I think I can safely achieve that using my horse drawn Aux Fuel. If you have actual evidence of Aux-Fuel failures, please post them so we can all make a more educated choice?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I will never believe that an octane booster can raise the octane that high. Maybe 93 > 96 ish but not 91 > 100. Their website advertises 91 > 110 oct. I do not buy that at all.



OEM ECUs were not as complex back in the day, but it was easier to run a SSAFC than it was to re-program the OE ECU. Current ECU tech allows for far greater manipulation and control than that system does. I was speaking to my tuner about getting an aux fuel system to communicate with the factory ecu, and it just can't be done. With a stand alone like Syvecs or something it certainly can be though. "If it ain't broke dont fix it" works great for tried and tested tech, but applying 90s tech to cars built in the last 5 or so years is like using a horse to pull your car around, it works but its inefficient. SSAFCs are "batch fire" controllers, that means all 4 injectors spray at the same time and can pool fuel up on the cylinders that are closed, combine that with no way to monitor it directly is asking for trouble eventually.



There have been issues with the single ports, as far as intake side backfires. The same goes for meth injection if the backfire happens while its spraying. I believe in time there will be failures of some type, whether it be the hose, pump, injector seals etc. Its an additional point of (potentially major) failure in the car and I don't think its worth it anymore.



Well thats your opinion and we all have our own. If you don't want to undo the minimal amount of bolts to remove the IM and clean it every once in a while, well ok. My partners fiesta has 75k miles on it, we took the IM off at 52k to check it out and it was fairly clean. Minimal build up that i scraped off with a flat head and some carb cleaner, maybe some sustained high RPM would help you out since its well known to assist in preventing carbon build up.

In the end its personal preference. Before the 30% injectors and pump existed this was the only option, understandably so, but it has taken off in application here vs not as popular overseas and no one knows why.

I use Boostane* works well! Minus the orange tinge it leaves on your spark plugs even though they say it doesn't *

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[ywgbandit]

I use Boostane* works well! Minus the orange tinge it leavevon your spark plugs even though they say it doesn't *

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What octane rating are you starting with and where do you feel it takes it up to? Have you been able to run more advanced timing? I ordered mine a month ago and it's still not here...probably hung up in Customs.

 

[MagnetiseST]

We're going way off topic (as usual)

Aux has failed in terms of blowing an IM apart at least once, its posted here on the forums somewhere.

You can hit 300whp with methanol, instead of aux. Same idea as ordering boostane, but easier to manage / handle imo.

He markets one of the better options on the market, sure. Peron is a good name and they make a decent product for sure. I'm not doubting the quality of the parts, but the system as a whole instead.

Anyway it comes down to what you want, its your car. By all means use the SPA and the boostane and post results. We've all tried something different in here so far

 

[Se7eN]

I'd be totally satisfied with 275-280 WHP with as few mods as possible, no E30 (way too far for every fill up, and I cannot store E85, or ANY fuel where I live, at all), and without any aux fueling, bigger D.I. injectors/pump, or meth injection.

with bolt-ons and stock fueling it would be 100% possible

 

[Se7eN]

Alternatively you could look at the VW guys who go 100k before cleaning their valves manually, making shit tons more power than we do. If you can keep the intake and charge pipes free of oil, the carbon will take longer to build up.

I used to work at a VW dealer. Cars with 50-60K where all stuffed up with crud on them valves. Cause it all really depends on the type of maintenance once does. Quality of oil and a bunch of other factors.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I used to work at a VW dealer. Cars with 50-60K where all stuffed up with crud on them valves. Cause it all really depends on the type of maintenance once does. Quality of oil and a bunch of other factors.

Im running under the assumption of: "big power cars are usually maintained better than daily beaters" lol

 

[Se7eN]

Im running under the assumption of: "big power cars are usually maintained better than daily beaters" lol

This is true for the most part. Also, if you run on boost a lot it tends to stay cleaner than a car that never hits boost. So guys just let your S280's and other turbos rip.

 

[gtx3076]

This is true for the most part. Also, if you run on boost a lot it tends to stay cleaner than a car that never hits boost. So guys just let your S280's and other turbos rip.

My car is in boost while it idles.

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