Other trans fluids for refill

[danbfree]

I said I don't care what people use. I just stated that what comes delivered in the transmission is DCTF, not gear oil.

OK, fair enough, but we should always be clear that anything that meets spec is perfectly acceptable when someone asks, it initially came off as you insisting to only use that when the original question was what else other than OEM. Sorry I came off a little harsh.

 

[danbfree]

Yeah, that is closer to the Ravenol MTF-3 in viscosity.

Or a step lower even, as MTF-2 is 75w-80, MTF-3 is straight 75w and this could be like MTF-4, if it existed, as 70w-75.

 

[koozy]

OK, fair enough, but we should always be clear that anything that meets spec is perfectly acceptable when someone asks, it initially came off as you insisting to only use that when the original question was what else other than OEM. Sorry I came off a little harsh.

FWIW, the motor oil and trans fluid I use do not have Ford Specs for the FiST on the bottles, so it doesn't make me a good candidate to try to push Ford Spec only products when I don't even use them. I try to clear up facts and misunderstandings when necessary, especially coming from FOBs.

 

[FiSTerMr]

I'm also running Ravenol MTF-2 75w-80, and heartily recommend it. I put 2.0L in during my LSD install, and it's been great. Yeah, yeah, the CORRECT fill level per the service manual is to fill until it weeps out of the fill hole and then remove enough fluid so that it measures 20mm below the fill hole, but to hell with that hot mess and whatever engineer came up with it - 2.0L is about the perfect "fire and forget" amount. It helps that Ravenol and many other fluids come in 1.0L containers, too.

Compared to Motul Multi DCTF - the previous fluid I was using - it's a very noticeable improvement. This is especially apparent during "cold" shifts after the car has been sitting for a while. The Motul Multi DCTF was a slight improvement over the stock fluid, but Ravenol MTF-2 is even better. Personally, I don't believe in putting in any fluid that does not meet OEM specification, but to each their own on that one.

I can attest to the "cold" shifts on the stock fluid. 1st to 2nd gear mostly. But part of that wonky feel I think is due to the location of reverse and the lockout.



2017 Magnetic FiST w/Recaros

 

[danbfree]

FWIW, the motor oil and trans fluid I use do not have Ford Specs for the FiST on the bottle. Doesn't make me a good candidate to try to push Ford Spec products when I don't even use them. I try to clear up facts and misunderstandings when necessary.

OK, I get you, sorry about that... to clarify, it sounded like you were promoting DCT fluid for it in general while everyone was talking about alternatives... and the bottle is one thing, they only have so much room to list everything, but maybe that's what you mean anyway, that what you use straight up doesn't have approval at all, and that's fine, there's plenty of good stuff out there in GL-4. I'm pretty sure my oil doesn't have it, I'd have to double check, but it's in the weight called for, full synthetic and made for/meets latest standards for DI-T engines so I don't care if the money was spent for Ford certification, so I'm with you on that... In my case with the trans, mine was crunchy at the end of the shift and I would miss gears due to inconsistent throw effort as it would kind of get sticky on the 2nd-3rd shift. So I wanted to try something that they couldn't deny me for if it ended up needing warranty later on, that's really the only reason for anyone to actually be concerned about spec fluid I'd say...

 

[koozy]

I'm also running Ravenol MTF-2 75w-80, and heartily recommend it. I put 2.0L in during my LSD install, and it's been great. Yeah, yeah, the CORRECT fill level per the service manual is to fill until it weeps out of the fill hole and then remove enough fluid so that it measures 20mm below the fill hole, but to hell with that hot mess and whatever engineer came up with it - 2.0L is about the perfect "fire and forget" amount. It helps that Ravenol and many other fluids come in 1.0L containers, too.

Compared to Motul Multi DCTF - the previous fluid I was using - it's a very noticeable improvement. This is especially apparent during "cold" shifts after the car has been sitting for a while. The Motul Multi DCTF was a slight improvement over the stock fluid, but Ravenol MTF-2 is even better. Personally, I don't believe in putting in any fluid that does not meet OEM specification, but to each their own on that one.

With each change contaminants get flushed out, so that may contribute to the better feel with each successive fluid change. Your assessment would carry more weight if you now went back to DCTF and it got worse and prove otherwise if it got better, IMO.

 

[danbfree]

I'm also running Ravenol MTF-2 75w-80, and heartily recommend it. I put 2.0L in during my LSD install, and it's been great. Yeah, yeah, the CORRECT fill level per the service manual is to fill until it weeps out of the fill hole and then remove enough fluid so that it measures 20mm below the fill hole, but to hell with that hot mess and whatever engineer came up with it - 2.0L is about the perfect "fire and forget" amount. It helps that Ravenol and many other fluids come in 1.0L containers, too.

Compared to Motul Multi DCTF - the previous fluid I was using - it's a very noticeable improvement. This is especially apparent during "cold" shifts after the car has been sitting for a while. The Motul Multi DCTF was a slight improvement over the stock fluid, but Ravenol MTF-2 is even better. Personally, I don't believe in putting in any fluid that does not meet OEM specification, but to each their own on that one.

So, even running MTF-2, if I don't let my car warm up for at least a full 90 secs or more, when taking off in first for the very first time the car is slightly hesitant/jerky so I try to gently let it rev out to a good 3000+ RPM and even then the first 1-2 shift is rough but then, boom, perfectly fine after that... does anyone else experience this too?

 

[danbfree]

With each change contaminants get flushed out, so that may contribute to the better feel with each successive fluid change. Your assessment would carry more weight if you now went back to DCTF and it got worse and prove otherwise if it got better, IMO.

Good point there, I did my first at 11k and now I'm at 22k, maybe I should do it one more time at least and consider it good for maybe 25k intervals after that... hmmm. Maybe I'll even try Triax SynTrans for the hell of since it's cheap, full synthetic and technically meets spec for warranty peace of mind although likely they won't care anyway, but at least know it's meant for use in the IB6.

 

[FiSTerMr]

Or a step lower even, as MTF-2 is 75w-80, MTF-3 is straight 75w and this could be like MTF-4, if it existed, as 70w-75.

The stock dct fluid is a straight 75w from what I have read, so the mtf-3 is just about as stock as you can get.
The replacement fluid overseas is a Castrol 75w, which is not available here unless you want to pay crazy prices to ship.

The stock fluid is a (lightweight)gear oiI with additives for the dct system. Since our car does not have the dct, we are only utilizing the gear oil, not the additives.

I think the common misconception is that Ford specs a dct fluid, and you cant use a "gear oil". The spec numbers are what's most important, not the fluid "type", persay. I made this mistake of conflating fluid type with actual spec.

*Please note, I am not calling anybody out, I in fact made this mistake.

2017 Magnetic FiST w/Recaros

 

[danbfree]

True, Koozy, but I'm not going to do that without a sponsor. I switched from OEM to Motul Multi DCTF at 2,539mi and from Motul to Ravenol at 7,950mi with my LSD installation. A lot of variables there, but I don't have the time, money, or patience to attempt anything close to lab-like testing on my daily. The improvement was pronounced enough that I'm confident that Ravenol is a superior fluid for this application.


Is the car still in "open loop" or has it changed over to "closed loop" when you experience this? That is to say, has the idle RPM dropped before you shift? That may be your issue. No matter what, I always wait for a car to switch to closed loop operation before I put it in gear so that it is operating under the best fueling conditions that it can when under load. You may also just be hyper-sensitive to dry/cold shifts.

Here is a decent enough explanation of closed vs open loop: https://www.hotrodhandbooks.com.au/eBooks/TPI/TPI On Line-03-2.html

No, I definitely always wait at least for the car to idle down, it's definitely related directly to the trans itself "warming up" it seems like as if I wait a full 90 seconds it is definitely less pronounced, but I wait just the 30 secs or so for it to idle down after open loop it still happens just as much as if I took off right away. Also, doesn't happen much at all when it's hot out, only when cold or mild out... very weird!

 

[danbfree]

Yes, odd. Any suggestions I could have at this point and without driving your car myself would be like giving a haircut over the phone. Perhaps your fill level is not adequate? Or, again, you are simply hyper-sensitive to cold shifts. I couldn't say with certainty.

Yeah, not sure it's worth fussing about for warranty, especially if they want to try to involve the amount of power from mods/tunes even if I flash back, etc. I guess I'm willing to live with it as long as that's the worst issue!

 

[FiSTerMr]

.....would be like giving a haircut over the phone.

HAHA!

 

[danbfree]

Yes, odd. Any suggestions I could have at this point and without driving your car myself would be like giving a haircut over the phone. Perhaps your fill level is not adequate? Or, again, you are simply hyper-sensitive to cold shifts. I couldn't say with certainty.

It was 80 degrees when I left work, car had been sitting for 4 hours since going out to lunch and no issue at all just waiting 30 secs for high idle to come down.. it's just sensitive to being cold at all it looks like, I'll just try to let it warm up a bit going forward and I may do a fluid change to something else for the hell of it, maybe even try the Triax DCT fluid this time.

 

[koozy]

IIRC, Ravenol also has a DCTF that meets specs.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-dctdsg-getriebe-fluid.html

https://www.blauparts.com/ravenol-dsg-transmission-fluid-dsg-dct-1l.html

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm pretty sure my oil doesn't have it, I'd have to double check, but it's in the weight called for, full synthetic and made for/meets latest standards for DI-T engines so I don't care if the money was spent for Ford certification

Ironically, the Dexos 1 Gen 2, and SN+ specs, as well as some of the current Euro/German car specs for their TGDI engines, are MUCH MUCH higher, tougher to meet/beat specs (as far as LSPI/TGDI valve deposits, and much else go) than the stupid Ford 945-A spec they set for our engine oil.

WHY I now totally ignore that spec, and seek out oils (like the Ravenol DXG) with the better specs.

 

[danbfree]

Ironically, the Dexos 1 Gen 2, and SN+ specs, as well as some of the current Euro/German car specs for their TGDI engines, are MUCH MUCH higher, tougher to meet/beat specs (as far as LSPI/TGDI valve deposits, and much else go) than the stupid Ford 945-A spec they set for our engine oil.

WHY I now totally ignore that spec, and seek out oils (like the Ravenol DXG) with the better specs. [tumb]

Exactly, and there are plenty of reasonable priced options that are Dexos Gen 2 and SN+ that are very reasonable, I use Quaker State Ultimate Durability myself.

 

[mk_not_a_robot]

Any Canucks know where I can get Ravenol?

Most people at parts desks don't even know the brand.

Just like TV shows, Canada seems to get the snub on a lot of things.

 

[FiSTerMr]

Exactly, and there are plenty of reasonable priced options that are Dexos Gen 2 and SN+ that are very reasonable, I use Quaker State Ultimate Durability myself.

Ditto! I'm on penz plat (5w30), which was reformulated not too long ago with DI and turbo in mind and meets those specs. Also, it meets the stringent Euro specs: A1/B1, A5/B5.
Not too shabby for an oil you can buy at Wallyworld on the cheap!

2017 Magnetic FiST w/Recaros

 

[danbfree]

Any Canucks know where I can get Ravenol?

Most people at parts desks don't even know the brand.

Just like TV shows, Canada seems to get the snub on a lot of things.

Amazon ships there, right?

Edit: I just checked amazon.ca and they don't offer MTF-2, damn, I'm surprised!

 

[XanRules]

re: oil, since folks were talking about that, I just bought the Liqui-Moly that's specially designed for the EcoBoost motors, because I'm insane.

For transmission fluid, I was looking at the BG Synchro Shift II but it's almost $10 per liter more expensive than the Ravenol, and while that's only $20 that's pretty eye-watering as a percentage of the cost ($32 shipped + $59 shipped). Anyone have experience with both in this car?

EDIT: so nobody clowns on my math, the Ravenol is $16/L with free shipping ($32) but the Synchro Shift is $26/L + $7 shipping ($59). I promise I can count.