x37-47 / 2554-60 / C39 / ST280 - Small Turbo Comparison Thread

[Sourskittle]

That video was made so long ago, that it was before we knew to use the Denso colder spark plugs lol.


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[OffTheWall503]

I think what I'm going to do, if the local dyno will allow me, is to take datalogs in sync with actual dyno pulls and compare the results. I would be interested in comparing V-Dyno against real dyno under the exact same conditions at the same exact time.

 

[re-rx7]

Ill be dynoing my Fist soon with cyborg at 28 psi. The turbo for me has been perfect. Great power band and car moves out nicely.

 

[Sourskittle]

I think what I'm going to do, if the local dyno will allow me, is to take datalogs in sync with actual dyno pulls and compare the results. I would be interested in comparing V-Dyno against real dyno under the exact same conditions at the same exact time.

As long as your dyno has been tuned to provide the identical load as the car puts on the tires on the road, and your dyno is traveling at 115mph so the air across the intercooler is the same in 4th gear.... but I'm not aware of a dyno where they will drag you that fast.

A mustang dyno can simulate load like the street ( but has to be dialed into the car as well ). But of course, no one loves "the heart breaker".

Of course.... the road does a pretty good job of simulating the load of being on the road. And the car traveling at 90mph in 3rd gear does an extremely good job at simulating the air your cooler would see at 90mph....

Look up your specs on your tires ( for height ), goto a city dump or weigh station and weigh the car. Find a flat claim road and take every result with a grain of salt because nothing is perfect minus an engine dyno.

When you see your charge temps rise 30-40 degrees on the dyno and your charge temps rise 4.5 degrees on the street and understand the difference that makes for air density and the difference it makes in what the tune is doing, then you start to see my issue with 90% of dynojet's. Cobb has what looks like a jet turbine engine in front of their dyno lol. Some shops have a 5 blade fan meant to keep a single person cool.

Maybe on some of these 1300whp Supra that run through 4th gear in 3 seconds it may not mean much. But when your doing a 4th gear pull for 15 seconds with basically no air across the intercooler, it's relevant. And these cars are super touchy about charge air temps, and that's why is the first mod people say to get.

 

[re-rx7]

As long as your dyno has been tuned to provide the identical load as the car puts on the tires on the road, and your dyno is traveling at 115mph so the air across the intercooler is the same in 4th gear.... but I'm not aware of a dyno where they will drag you that fast.

A mustang dyno can simulate load like the street ( but has to be dialed into the car as well ). But of course, no one loves "the heart breaker".

Of course.... the road does a pretty good job of simulating the load of being on the road. And the car traveling at 90mph in 3rd gear does an extremely good job at simulating the air your cooler would see at 90mph....

Look up your specs on your tires ( for height ), goto a city dump or weigh station and weigh the car. Find a flat claim road and take every result with a grain of salt because nothing is perfect minus an engine dyno.

When you see your charge temps rise 30-40 degrees on the dyno and your charge temps rise 4.5 degrees on the street and understand the difference that makes for air density and the difference it makes in what the tune is doing, then you start to see my issue with 90% of dynojet's. Cobb has what looks like a jet turbine engine in front of their dyno lol. Some shops have a 5 blade fan meant to keep a single person cool.

Maybe on some of these 1300whp Supra that run through 4th gear in 3 seconds it may not mean much. But when your doing a 4th gear pull for 15 seconds with basically no air across the intercooler, it's relevant. And these cars are super touchy about charge air temps, and that's why is the first mod people say to get.

I can vouche for cobbs dyno and the fans. My car made 210 there on 93 octane in 95 degree heat. It is also a mustang dyno.

 

[OffTheWall503]

The dyno I have been to twice locally is a Dynocom, I can't speak for the accuracy of those dynos.

 

[Ish]

That's the original cyborg with the stock clipped turbine, not a C39. The original would make 20psi really quick (3000rpm) and then build from there. The C39 spools completely and quickly. That video is at least a year old, maybe 2 years old I don't remember. Back then, people were saying "this type turbo will never make any power, and you just expect us to believe you? It's not a GTX45, so it can't make anymore power, and we want data data data, without Data we'll never know". And of course I knew, because this is not my first rodeo with these type turbos. Fast forward to 2 years later and..... well.... those people don't really have an argument. The same goes for the X37 vs C39. How do it know? Because I've built both turbos. I know what is inside both turbos. I know what both compressor wheels are capable of. Just because no one else does, doesn't mean I don't know better. Do I really need to have DATA to know that a 285hp compressor wheel is going to make less power than a 320hp compressor wheel? Not really....

A C39 car may make 250WHP
A X37 may make 280whp.

But the same C39 car with an X37 would make 230-235whp.
And the same X37 car with a C39 would make 300-310whp.

Understand ? Just because one car in one climate on one dyno at one elevation with one intercooler with one fuel on one engine makes XXXwhp does not change the internals of a machine. A turbo is a machine. It can only live up to its potential if you give it max support. So no doubt in my mind, a X37 car with max support vs a C39 car with a Walmart tune on it ( not to mention one driver with nothing to prove, and another driver hell bent on cementing his purchase choice ), and it's no surprise what the outcome is... not to me anyway...

Brian you keep saying that i had something to prove so let me clear things up. First of all, the c39 driver and I are REALLY good friends. Known him since 3rd grade. In no way was i trying to make him look bad or your stupid turbo. Shit Im the one that convinced him to BUY YOUR TURBO LOL AND I personally installed it. Second of all, we both have the EXACT same mods, the EXACT same "walmart tuner", and we both were hoping he pulled and not me because we BOTH knew the shit storm is was going to cause if he didnt lol. Third of all, it was ALL for fun man, C39 cars is not the only type of videos i have up on my channel so stop thinking im trying to knock the C39 off its high horse. I like what you do and you offer a great product and service but man you act like a child. Just because I have an x37 and im tuned by a fellow "walmart tuner" doesnt mean im your enemy or that im on the opposite "team" or that makes me automatically be against DHM or whatever you may think. Like I said its all for fun and a hobby. Stop being butthurt guys.

BTW I never jumped him, we both spun he just happen to shift wayyy to early.

 

[kali323]

I dont like in a way im being call cheap just cuz you dont like adam. I dont care about your issues with him, leave me out of them. That x37 had the same "walmart" tuner. I was going to go dhm for a tune but i didnt feel like spending money on a tune that I feel like ill still be slower than a x37 at the end. Also I knew i was going to take off the turbo soon so i didnt want to waste money. When i go x47, ill probably have dhm tune me but for now Ill stay tune+. Anyways that x37 had nothing to prove. Hes one of my closests friends and I know him since elementary school. We were both excited and we're expecting the c39 to be faster. Obviously that didnt happen. A day before we film that video, he beat me on his 91 tune while i was on e30 by 2 cars.

Edit: i was writing this before ish's response

 

[Crooked Letta]

I dont like in a way im being call cheap just cuz you dont like adam. I dont care about your issues with him, leave me out of them. That x37 had the same "walmart" tuner. I was going to go dhm for a tune but i didnt feel like spending money on a tune that I feel like ill still be slower than a x37 at the end. Also I knew i was going to take off the turbo soon so i didnt want to waste money. When i go x47, ill probably have dhm tune me but for now Ill stay tune+. Anyways that x37 had nothing to prove. Hes one of my closests friends and I know him since elementary school. We were both excited and we're expecting the c39 to be faster. Obviously that didnt happen. A day before we film that video, he beat me on his 91 tune while i was on e30 by 2 cars.

Edit: i was writing this before ish's response

Don't really want to turn this into a tune battle but I went with Tune+ because of the headway that he made in the RS world. People may not like tuners for different reasons and every one has an opinion but I agree calling him a Walmart tuner is a bit childish. He is a very capable tuner as are many on here. Tuning is not magic and if you are knowledgeable about engine performance it's easy to see. Credit is due where credit is earned and I will have no problem sticking with him for the rest of my FiST development no matter which Hybrid I go with.

Sorry to rant a bit but you are right and you shouldn't feel ashamed for who tuned your vehicle. Results are results and we can go back to one of my posts some where about the lack of evidence. Thank you for you both giving the community this video, for any one that doesn't like their results then perform your own tests and please share. I don't get fooled by bullshit or childish comments as with many people here in the community, many of us are knowledgeable people that understand thermodynamics, engine performance. tuning, dynos and so on. You also shouldn't feel like you have to defend your video when it is the only one to speak of, again hardcore data or lack of is the problem here, not your vehicles or who tuned them

 

[re-rx7]

Brian you keep saying that i had something to prove so let me clear things up. First of all, the c39 driver and I are REALLY good friends. Known him since 3rd grade. In no way was i trying to make him look bad or your stupid turbo. Shit Im the one that convinced him to BUY YOUR TURBO LOL AND I personally installed it. Second of all, we both have the EXACT same mods, the EXACT same "walmart tuner", and we both were hoping he pulled and not me because we BOTH knew the shit storm is was going to cause if he didnt lol. Third of all, it was ALL for fun man, C39 cars is not the only type of videos i have up on my channel so stop thinking im trying to knock the C39 off its high horse. I like what you do and you offer a great product and service but man you act like a child. Just because I have an x37 and im tuned by a fellow "walmart tuner" doesnt mean im your enemy or that im on the opposite "team" or that makes me automatically be against DHM or whatever you may think. Like I said its all for fun and a hobby. Stop being butthurt guys.

BTW I never jumped him, we both spun he just happen to shift wayyy to early.

The point is really simple. Exact same mods same tuner but the tuner sold one and not the other. Out of curiousity and basic advertising, who would you tune better to make more money? Hmmm

 

[Ish]

Bought mine straight from PumaSpeed before Adam started selling them. We gone through this already so theres no point and Im sure he stopped selling them way before the c39 was released.

 

[kali323]

Adam doesnt sell the x37 anymore in fact I bet pumaspeed hates adam more than anybody else does lol

 

[OffTheWall503]

I love how blatantly people can criticize some vendors/merchants on here and get posts deleted if it's about one particular vendor and other vendors criticisms are left up for the whole world to read.

If people have beef with a tuner then dish it out privately, I'm so sick of seeing people post shit about people and somehow letting the comments slide by as if that's ok.

 

[grnmachine02]

Can someone please just create a separate forum section for all this e-peen measuring? Hell, we can even make it anonymous so no one gets butthurt.

EDIT:// Also, the hell does Walmart tuner even mean? If you're going to throw around insults, at least use one that makes sense.

 

[UtahST]

Exactly my point, a stock 5.0 is probably putting around 360ish to the wheels but has the ability to trap a 114mph(according to you) and DHM kit fiesta with around 360whp is trapping 113mph and you say there in the same power level? How does that make sense? when the fiesta weights 2700lbs and a 5.0 weights around 3650lbs? That fiesta would destroy that stock 5.0 off a roll guaranteed.

I see know reason why an X-37 couldn't beat a STOCK 5.0 from a roll based purely on power to weight. A huge factor though is that 5.0s have a lot of power left on the table and in a street race usually 5.0s won't be stock. At a higher elevation X-37/C39s should stomp any N/A American muscle car with minor bolt ons.

 

[OffTheWall503]

Can someone please just create a separate forum section for all this e-peen measuring? Hell, we can even make it anonymous so no one gets butthurt.

EDIT:// Also, the hell does Walmart tuner even mean? If you're going to throw around insults, at least use one that makes sense.

I'm guessing Wal-Mart meaning rollback or "cheap." Seems clever to some people, I suppose. Again I don't understand how the shit talking in a public setting like this is allowed when all vendors pay to provide a service and product.

 

[grnmachine02]

I'm guessing Wal-Mart meaning rollback or "cheap." Seems clever to some people, I suppose. Again I don't understand how the shit talking in a public setting like this is allowed when all vendors pay to provide a service and product.

On another forum I frequent, we have a vendor that is constantly bashing other vendors. Guess what? No one buys his products. People need to have some class.

 

[Hijinx]

I thought we'd moved beyond bench racing since last weeks episode.

 

[BoostBumps]

X-37 / ATP 2554 & 60 / Cyborg & C39 Turbo Comparison Thread

Let's get back on topic guys...

Off-Topic racing posts and discussions have been moved to this new thread...

The Unofficial FiST Off-Topic Racing Posts Repository Thread

 

[Striker]

Would someone be kind enough to run me up to speed on these hybrid turbos and what type of power they lay down? I'm going to guess the basic supporting mods are required: IC, intake, downpipe.