Stratified Flash Tune Review

[AzNightmare]

Where can I find these traction modes 1-8? Is it in the menu in the Access Port?

 

[Based]

If your engine is reducing the ignition advance (pulling timing), you will be losing power. Too much advance is destructive to the engine (detonation). Our engines are equipped with "knock sensors" that can detect detonation, and the ecu can take steps (reducing boost or pulling timing) to save the engine from damage. Running too low an octane fuel will activate the knock sensors and cause the ecu to take whatever steps are programmed. Our cars are designed for a minimum of 87 or 94 octane... more if they are modified. Here in Canada , the best you can normally get is 94. Bleech


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So ok... Advancing timing means the spark plug ignites when the piston is closer to the top of the cylinder, while pulling timing or retarding the timing means the spark plug fires when the piston is farther away from the top of the cylinder? And if you advance timing too much, you start to get knock?

How does pulling timing make you lose power? I thought the spark plug firing earlier would make it have more power because it's a shorter stroke.

And AZNightmare, go to the Tune section on your Accessport (where you would change your tune) and go to ECU Adjustments. At least I think that's where it is I can't really remember.

 

[Dragvan]

So ok... Advancing timing means the spark plug ignites when the piston is closer to the top of the cylinder, while pulling timing or retarding the timing means the spark plug fires when the piston is farther away from the top of the cylinder? And if you advance timing too much, you start to get knock?

How does pulling timing make you lose power? I thought the spark plug firing earlier would make it have more power because it's a shorter stroke.

And AZNightmare, go to the Tune section on your Accessport (where you would change your tune) and go to ECU Adjustments. At least I think that's where it is I can't really remember.

On the compression stroke ,piston moving up. Advance timeing would be before top dead center or before it reaches the top. Lets say 20degs advance. If the comp pulled 5degs then you would be at 15degs advance before Tdc. More advance more power to a point. I hope that helps.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

So ok... Advancing timing means the spark plug ignites when the piston is closer to the top of the cylinder, while pulling timing or retarding the timing means the spark plug fires when the piston is farther away from the top of the cylinder? And if you advance timing too much, you start to get knock?

How does pulling timing make you lose power? I thought the spark plug firing earlier would make it have more power because it's a shorter stroke.

And AZNightmare, go to the Tune section on your Accessport (where you would change your tune) and go to ECU Adjustments. At least I think that's where it is I can't really remember.

There is an optimal time in the combustion cycle to fire the spark plugs such that the hot gas expansion of the combustion pushes on the piston in the most effective manner. This produces the most torque as far as engine timing is concerned and it is called mean best torque timing. This timing value depends on engine design as well as engine speed. Rule of thumb is that you want to fire the spark plug before top dead center and this is called your ignition advance in number of degrees before the piston is at top dead center.

The later you fire the plug the less torque the engine will produce from this point. We are often forced to reduce timing (fire later) to prevent knock.

By the same token an effective and fast way to change engine torque is to change when the spark plug fires. This is quick as it does not rely on the airflow entering the engine which has a much slower response time. This traction control system fires the spark plugs later when slip is detected to reduce engine torque and give you the change to back off the throttle and re-engage traction. The more slip it detects the later it will fire and more it will reduce torque. Torque output is very quickly brought to normal once there is no or minimal wheel slip detected between front and rear. This is much faster and it maintains momentum much better than relying on applying the brakes, closing the throttle, or reducing boost via the wastegate which are much slower processes.

Hope this helps shed some light on what is going on with this type of traction control.

 

[Quisp]

Isn't a little spin benificial to get the engine into the power range ?

 

[grnmachine02]

If the tires are spinning, you aren't accelerating. As soon as they grab traction the rpm drops. Regardless of what rpm you're at, if there's no load on the engine then the turbo isn't spooling.


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[Quisp]

Yeah I'm thinking N/A.

 

[Joker328]

If the tires are spinning, you aren't accelerating. As soon as they grab traction the rpm drops. Regardless of what rpm you're at, if there's no load on the engine then the turbo isn't spooling.


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This is not necessarily true. You could very well still be accelerating, but not as fast as if they were not slipping. Also, there is still a significant load on the engine due to the friction with the road surface, even when spinning. Again, not as much as if your are not slipping, so your goal on most surfaces should still be to minimize wheel spin. There is no point being in the power band if you aren't able to use that power effectively.

In any case, the issue (as Alex pointed out above) is that the feedback loops when using brakes or throttle closures to deal with brief losses of traction are too long, and you often lose more torque for longer than necessary maintain grip (or more specifically, maximum acceleration). If properly calibrated, a timing based solution should be more responsive and effective in all but the most extreme loss of traction situations (e.g., wet or icy roads).

 

[Dragvan]

I think the problem Im having with the trac control is it doesn't let the tires spin at all. Mod 8 does but its way to much and only pulls timing on a shift. The other issue is on fiesta the trac control doesn't use the steering sensor or yaw sensor. Ive seen in a turn it pull timing without any slip. The outside tire is moving faster and causing the trac control to think its slipping. It would be nice if the user could juts adjust the % of slip and then the amount of timing to be pulled or the multiplier separately.

 

[grnmachine02]

Is this in sport mode? Or are you using both the factory and stratified traction control?


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[Dragvan]

This is not necessarily true. You could very well still be accelerating, but not as fast as if they were not slipping. Also, there is still a significant load on the engine due to the friction with the road surface, even when spinning. Again, not as much as if your are not slipping, so your goal on most surfaces should still be to minimize wheel spin. There is no point being in the power band if you aren't able to use that power effectively.

In any case, the issue (as Alex pointed out above) is that the feedback loops when using brakes or throttle closures to deal with brief losses of traction are too long, and you often lose more torque for longer than necessary maintain grip (or more specifically, maximum acceleration). If properly calibrated, a timing based solution should be more responsive and effective in all but the most extreme loss of traction situations (e.g., wet or icy roads).

This is absolutely correct. If this was properly calibrated it would be fantastic but as it is now it still slows the car down way to much.

 

[grnmachine02]

This is not necessarily true. You could very well still be accelerating, but not as fast as if they were not slipping. Also, there is still a significant load on the engine due to the friction with the road surface, even when spinning. Again, not as much as if your are not slipping, so your goal on most surfaces should still be to minimize wheel spin. There is no point being in the power band if you aren't able to use that power effectively.

In any case, the issue (as Alex pointed out above) is that the feedback loops when using brakes or throttle closures to deal with brief losses of traction are too long, and you often lose more torque for longer than necessary maintain grip (or more specifically, maximum acceleration). If properly calibrated, a timing based solution should be more responsive and effective in all but the most extreme loss of traction situations (e.g., wet or icy roads).

I was a bit broad in my statement. I should have said aren't accelerating as much as when the tires aren't slipping. I spaced on the load part.


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[Dragvan]

Is this in sport mode? Or are you using both the factory and stratified traction control?



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Yes its in sport mode. My car is 100% stock and maybe that has alittle to do with the issues I have and really at this power level it needs very little trac control if any.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

This is absolutely correct. If this was properly calibrated it would be fantastic but as it is now it still slows the car down way to much.

I am surprised you are seeing this issue. Mode 1 is the optimal mode and Mode 2-8 should go from less slip than mode 1 to more slip than mode 1 in a linear progressive manner. There should not be a jump in mode 8.

If you are using our Stratified LC and not just the COBB LC this should be the case. To get this verified send us an email as reply to the email containing your tune and we can double check for you.

 

[Dragvan]

I am surprised you are seeing this issue. Mode 1 is the optimal mode and Mode 2-8 should go from less slip than mode 1 to more slip than mode 1 in a linear progressive manner. There should not be a jump in mode 8.

If you are using our Stratified LC and not just the COBB LC this should be the case. To get this verified send us an email as reply to the email containing your tune and we can double check for you.

Looks like I was on the cobb traction control. Alex reviewed my tune and found there traction control wasn't in it. Thanks Alex! I new something wasn't right lol. I watched that video over and over and said mine doesn't work that way.

 

[Dragvan]

I got the new tune from Alex with there Trac control. Night and day difference. What was cobb thinking lol. I haven't moved it from stratified optimized setting. I really haven't had the need to. I'm going to do some mountain driving tomorrow and really test it out but I think it's on the money. Thanks again Alex for checking it out and getting the tune back so fast.

 

[justinsane]

[video=youtube;yPutxQX42a0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPutxQX42a0[/video]

Lol the pops in first gear are insane, people have started swerving around me thinking I blew a tire etc. nowadays, as long as no one calls the cops it's all good

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^That seems like it would have to eventually hurt a stock downpipe's, or even catted aftermarket downpipe's catcon over time.

 

[rexdriver85]

[video=youtube;yPutxQX42a0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPutxQX42a0[/video]

Lol the pops in first gear are insane, people have started swerving around me thinking I blew a tire etc. nowadays, as long as no one calls the cops it's all good

Jesus! Username seems fitting.

 

[grnmachine02]

^^^That seems like it would have to eventually hurt a stock downpipe's, or even catted aftermarket downpipe's catcon over time.

Chances are (judging by the fire out the tailpipe) there is no cat on that car.