steering sucks

[ctrujillo99]

been dealing with an issue with not being able to really control the going straight. so i’ve kinda of just started to replace some parts. superpro control arms (oem spec), Whoosh RMM, replaced steering rack (had blown seals).. got the car to an alignment shop and this is the alignment sheet. car can drive straight but changing lanes and the wheel returning to center after turning feels so sloppy and erratic. could the caster be my issue? it’s not adjustable and if so how would I got about adjusting it?

 

[Stubborn Approach]

The alignment sheet looks acceptable, caster is fine but the tech could have shimmed the rear toe to be more even.

What is the condition of your tie rods? Do they have any play?

Does the car pull to one side when on throttle & then the other direction off throttle?

 

[ctrujillo99]

The alignment sheet looks acceptable, caster is fine but the tech could have shimmed the rear toe to be more even.

What is the condition of your tie rods? Do they have any play?

Does the car pull to one side when on throttle & then the other direction off throttle?

tie rods are brand new. steering rack and tie rods have about 200 miles. steering feels extremely snappy. like if I switch lanes it pulls hard right. switching to left feels fine. hitting bumps on driver side feels fine but hitting on passenger side it kinda like jerks the whole car right. when on throttle or off it is going either direction even cruising feels like I have to constantly control from veering right to left. should also mention with the posted alignment sheet my steering wheel isnt very straight slightly points left.

 

[SteveS]

Your Caster is lower than spec. It's supposed to be 4.08 +/- 1. Another couple of degrees of caster would definitely improve self-centering.

The rear alignment is way off. Unlike the front, where uneven toe left to right can be compensated by turning the steering wheel, at the rear you don't have that option. Real toe spec is 0.0 +/- .50 and they should be the same left and right.

 

[ctrujillo99]

Your Caster is lower than spec. It's supposed to be 4.08 +/- 1. Another couple of degrees of caster would definitely improve self-centering.

The rear alignment is way off. Unlike the front, where uneven toe left to right can be compensated by turning the steering wheel, at the rear you don't have that option. Real toe spec is 0.0 +/- .50 and they should be the same left and right.

how would I go about getting the caster back to spec if it’s non adjustable. my previous alignment sheet before replacing the steering rack had caster in the right area. also while putting subframe back up I added whoosh subframe centering kit. still have the same struts and control arms.

 

[Stubborn Approach]

how would I go about getting the caster back to spec if it’s non adjustable. my previous alignment sheet before replacing the steering rack had caster in the right area. also while putting subframe back up I added whoosh subframe centering kit. still have the same struts and control arms.

Removing the centering kit will increase the caster back to standard but it won’t change the behavior you are feeling at all. My caster is at 2 but my car doesn’t behave anything like you describe for yours. It’s not a caster issue you are feeling. There are adjustable caster bushings available, but most rotate out of position. I have a set for a Mazda2 I need to install before I can recommend them.

Rear toe is correctable with a shim. They used it back in the day for VW Rabbits and any respectable alignment tech has them laying around. I am not sure it would be causing the issues you are feeling because I also have uneven rear toe and no issues with the car tracking straight. It’s toed in, which helps with keeping the car stable in a straight line. It’s confusing for sure.

What is the condition of the torsion beam bushings?

 

[ctrujillo99]

Removing the centering kit will increase the caster back to standard but it won’t change the behavior you are feeling at all. My caster is at 2 but my car doesn’t behave anything like you describe for yours. It’s not a caster issue you are feeling. There are adjustable caster bushings available, but most rotate out of position. I have a set for a Mazda2 I need to install before I can recommend them.

Rear toe is correctable with a shim. They used it back in the day for VW Rabbits and any respectable alignment tech has them laying around. I am not sure it would be causing the issues you are feeling because I also have uneven rear toe and no issues with the car tracking straight. It’s toed in, which helps with keeping the car stable in a straight line. It’s confusing for sure.

What is the condition of the torsion beam bushings?

rear bushing look fairly good. the driving experience has been really crappy. don’t really know how else to explain my issues and how to correct it. driving me nuts. just want to safely drive my car. feel like i’ve just be throwing parts at it then getting an alignment hoping something works.

 

[Stubborn Approach]

That seems to be a common theme when these issues pop up on this chassis & the aftermarket is full of snake oil to sell us to correct it. In nearly every case I’ve dealt with the eventual fix was identifying and replacing a worn part.

You may want to have the tech fix the centering of your steering wheel at the very least and ask them if they can toe shim the right hub on the beam while you are there.

 

[ctrujillo99]

That seems to be a common theme when these issues pop up on this chassis & the aftermarket is full of snake oil to sell us to correct it. In nearly every case I’ve dealt with the eventual fix was identifying and replacing a worn part.

You may want to have the tech fix the centering of your steering wheel at the very least and ask them if they can toe shim the right hub on the beam while you are there.

you seem to fairly knowledgeable. I have a completely unrelated issue i’m dealing with maybe you have some insight. keep getting evap very small leak codes. replaced purge valve harness and charcoal canister vent valve. cleaned the filler neck flap but code is consistent. thought about replacing the filler neck. p0452

 

[Intuit]

replaced steering rack (had blown seals)

What car do you you have? The steering gears aren't hydraulic.

Mine was hit parked on the side of the road. Turn your steering wheel clockwise all the way to lock and measure minimum distance between tire and chassis on the driver side. Turn counter-clockwise to lock and measure minimum distance on the passenger side. If it's different, there's something else going on. Unfortunately and in my case, the hit & run also damaged the steering column EPAS components.

Following any alignment your EPAS has to be calibrated. Otherwise it's going to be "correcting" you in ways that are potentially dangerous.

.

 

[ctrujillo99]

What car do you you have? The steering gears aren't hydraulic.

Mine was hit parked on the side of the road. Turn your steering wheel clockwise all the way to lock and measure minimum distance between tire and chassis on the driver side. Turn counter-clockwise to lock and measure minimum distance on the passenger side. If it's different, there's something else going on. Unfortunately and in my case, the hit & run also damaged the steering column EPAS components.

Following any alignment your EPAS has to be calibrated. Otherwise it's going to be "correcting" you in ways that are potentially dangerous.

.

I have a 19 FiSt had steering angle sensor calibrated also but that didn’t help either. kinda feels like my passenger side is turning before passenger side or is more free?? can’t really put together the feeling.

 

[Intuit]

I have a 19 FiSt had steering angle sensor calibrated also but that didn’t help either. kinda feels like my passenger side is turning before passenger side or is more free?? can’t really put together the feeling.

Do the measuring. Because mine feels like that too, I know what you're saying. It's hard to describe. When they replaced the front suspension and "aligned" mine, I believe they only put it in spec for when the wheels are straight and the suspension settled. But from aspects of its behavior that are difficult to describe, it feels like the camber/caster are increasingly off for the driver side wheel, both, as the suspension is compressed/decompressed and as the wheel is turned.

This is another aspect of the issue. I doubt they calibrated EPAS or know anything about it. But it feels like the torque vectoring and stability control are positioning the vehicle according bum information.

The EPAS is rather complicated because information from various systems are shared. Torque vectoring and stability control are features that exist only in the form of programming for ABS. But they use steering angle, accelerometer, gyroscopic and other information such as acclerator input, engine load, braking, to independently operate the rear brakes during cornering and acceleration maneuvers. The system also attempts to actively compensate for road drift, caused by changes in pavement leveling, bank; using the EPAS servo on your steernig wheel column.

I haven't yet replaced my steering gear (aka rack & pinion) so it still has a ton of mechanical slack from the hit. (waiting for the threat of Winter snows to end) The Miata has a built in adjustment for removing such slack. To my knowledge our steering gear does not. But my plan is to replace the steering gear myself then have the body shop do their magic with measuring to pinpoint precisely what is bent.