Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 audio upgrade suggestions

[chicagoslick]

Does your opinion still hold on the Pioneers, regarding 2 way systems? I know we've talked about my fondness for the Alpines at a recent listening session but you've piqued my interest in the TS with your comments about cone weight and flexibility in range. The Pioneer TS-A1606C components are definitely in my budget.

Also, on a tangent, I've been reading things on diymobileaudio and some people talk about using Madisound or other raw speakers rather than buying matched components with passive crossovers. if I go with a 5 channel amp and a TWK88 I could certainly explore this option and run the highs and mids on their own channels with dedicated tuning. Thoughts?

Hello Stormy,

I am going to chime in with my opinion on this subject. If I understood your original expectations, having read other posts of yours, is that you wanted a low / mid budget system that would provide decent sound (5-7 sound quality). If this is true, I would not go with Madisound, as this approach would move you towards competition setup, unless you are prepared to spend some serious time building and tuning as antartica24 is going to do. The speaker options they offer are excellent; however, installed or tuned incorrectly will ultimately disappoint you. I would stick with speakers designed to fit the current locations (Pioneer, RF, Alpine, JL, Focal) with the caveat that you still need to sound deaden, upgrade wiring, and amplify. As far as the TwK-88, I would first go with the FiX 82/86 and restore the factory head unit signal back to a flat state, even if you are planning to use forscan to kill the factory tuning. With the FiX you will get a strong 4volt output for your amp(s). (Not likely to happen with the factory head unit) With the new TuN software you can do quite a bit of tuning with the FiX, probably more than most will ever need. If the TuN software were released prior to me buying the TwK, I probably would not have bought it.

I would consider my system a low to mid budget system utilizing the stock speaker locations. The sound quality for my listening preference is significantly improved over the stock system.


I know you have a decent amount of experience doing this and I am not telling you anything you don't already know, just thought I would chime in...I would hate for you to waste time and money.

 

[Stormy]

Hello Stormy,

I am going to chime in with my opinion on this subject. If I understood your original expectations, having read other posts of yours, is that you wanted a low / mid budget system that would provide decent sound (5-7 sound quality). If this is true, I would not go with Madisound, as this approach would move you towards competition setup, unless you are prepared to spend some serious time building and tuning as antartica24 is going to do. The speaker options they offer are excellent; however, installed or tuned incorrectly will ultimately disappoint you. I would stick with speakers designed to fit the current locations (Pioneer, RF, Alpine, JL, Focal) with the caveat that you still need to sound deaden, upgrade wiring, and amplify. As far as the TwK-88, I would first go with the FiX 82/86 and restore the factory head unit signal back to a flat state, even if you are planning to use forscan to kill the factory tuning. With the FiX you will get a strong 4volt output for your amp(s). (Not likely to happen with the factory head unit) With the new TuN software you can do quite a bit of tuning with the FiX, probably more than most will ever need. If the TuN software were released prior to me buying the TwK, I probably would not have bought it.

I would consider my system a low to mid budget system utilizing the stock speaker locations. The sound quality for my listening preference is significantly improved over the stock system.


I know you have a decent amount of experience doing this and I am not telling you anything you don't already know, just thought I would chime in...I would hate for you to waste time and money.

Thanks, man. Stuff like this is what I need to hear. My ADD gets going and I spend hours thinking about things that I could do, getting caught up in tangent ideas, researching... You should see all the threads I created or posted on over at DIY in the last 24 hours. LOL. Anyhow, eventually I boil it all down and get back to perspective and my original goal. I started a thread on here the other day titled "System upgrade on a budget" and after all the agonizing over going 3-way and how to do it, DSP options, etc., I'm basically back to what I laid out in there. Think I'll start ordering things today.

Regarding the Fix, I guess If I'm going to get a flat tune (No EQ, no timing correction) out of the HU, I'm not sure what the need for the Fix is at that point. I am still considering DSP but I think for starters my heart is set on a PPI E.7 in the glove box (7 band sweepable quasi parametric EQ with subsonic filter and 7v line driver). This will give me a strong signal and decent amount of flexible tuning hat I can still control on the fly without a PC. It also keeps me on a budget.

 

[shouldbeasy]

Alright, I've read this thread and am still a little stumped when it comes to the integration of the factory head unit and upgrading the sound quality.

I'm not opposed to adding speakers, a small amp and perhaps a sub (don't want to add much weight) but don't know exactly what I need to accomplish this.

Can someone provide me with links to specific products (of your choice, I'm not a brand whore) in order to get the ball rolling? I typically use my ancient iPod through the USB port - for better or worse.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[chicagoslick]

Alright, I've read this thread and am still a little stumped when it comes to the integration of the factory head unit and upgrading the sound quality.

I'm not opposed to adding speakers, a small amp and perhaps a sub (don't want to add much weight) but don't know exactly what I need to accomplish this.

Can someone provide me with links to specific products (of your choice, I'm not a brand whore) in order to get the ball rolling? I typically use my ancient iPod through the USB port - for better or worse.

Thanks in advance!!

If I understand you correctly, this is my response to what you had above about "integration of the factory head unit and upgrading the sound quality". Ford paid Sony to design and build a system that would work with the Fiesta. That does not mean they were looking for the best possible system, but a system that would work for "most" people based on their surveys and response from owners. In addition to that equation came cost and expectation for a budget car. As part of installation of that system they "tuned" the system to work with the components installed. Tuning simply means they adjusted the tonal qualities (the sound you hear, the staging / position of the speakers, balance / fade, etc) of the system to match the car and the components installed. (You are not able to see what they tuned without special equipment) Any change you make (speakers, amps, etc) will disrupt what they designed and tuned. Integration simply means a way of taking new components and adding them to the current system. This typically is keeping the head unit (main control unit where volume, station tuning, source, etc) and adding (integrating) new speakers, amps, subs, etc. You cannot undo what they "tuned" without special integration components or possibly via Forscan.

So with what I described above, many will say they have had success, improved their system / upgraded the sound quality, with just changing out the factory speakers to aftermarket units. Some have said that adding a subwoofer with an amplifier improved their system. Many have said it was the combination of both. By making the changes stated above you will have changed the "tune" of the audio system. It may be a positive move or a negative move. Only you can decide that.

So my questions are:
What are you wanting from your system? How much do you have to spend / want to spend? Do you feel pretty good about what you currently have or are you completely dissatisfied? What are your skills with doing electrical and mechanical work? These are just a few questions I would have, but could be others as follow up.

Note:
What many forget or find out the hard way is that by making these changes you can also disrupt the phone, navigation, or voice commands.

 

[shouldbeasy]

If I understand you correctly, this is my response to what you had above about "integration of the factory head unit and upgrading the sound quality". Ford paid Sony to design and build a system that would work with the Fiesta. That does not mean they were looking for the best possible system, but a system that would work for "most" people based on their surveys and response from owners. In addition to that equation came cost and expectation for a budget car. As part of installation of that system they "tuned" the system to work with the components installed. Tuning simply means they adjusted the tonal qualities (the sound you hear, the staging / position of the speakers, balance / fade, etc) of the system to match the car and the components installed. (You are not able to see what they tuned without special equipment) Any change you make (speakers, amps, etc) will disrupt what they designed and tuned. Integration simply means a way of taking new components and adding them to the current system. This typically is keeping the head unit (main control unit where volume, station tuning, source, etc) and adding (integrating) new speakers, amps, subs, etc. You cannot undo what they "tuned" without special integration components or possibly via Forscan.

So with what I described above, many will say they have had success, improved their system / upgraded the sound quality, with just changing out the factory speakers to aftermarket units. Some have said that adding a subwoofer with an amplifier improved their system. Many have said it was the combination of both. By making the changes stated above you will have changed the "tune" of the audio system. It may be a positive move or a negative move. Only you can decide that.

So my questions are:
What are you wanting from your system? better overall sound How much do you have to spend / want to spend? budget isn't an issue... like to stay under $500 maybe? Do you feel pretty good about what you currently have or are you completely dissatisfied? not overly happy as I can switch from my 4Runner or even my Sprinter with JBL speakers and they're much better What are your skills with doing electrical and mechanical work? you name it, I can do it. These are just a few questions I would have, but could be others as follow up.

Note:
What many forget or find out the hard way is that by making these changes you can also disrupt the phone, navigation, or voice commands. Right - I'd like to retain these as that's part of retaining the factory integration

Answers in bold above! Thanks!

 

[antarctica24]

Answers in bold above! Thanks!

Stormy, Im going to chime in, its very difficult to really point out specific parts. The reason being is there are so many options at so many price points.


What you need to know is if you are up to any custom work? If yes, you have options to mount the tweeters up on the dash instead of the door, and do you want to build your own box for a sub, or buy one prebuilt?

The door speakers are 3/4 " for the tweeter if you stay in the door, and 6.5" for the lower part of the door. 6.5" in the rear doors if you decide to keep those.

If you add a sub, you really need a high level to low level converter. While there are numerous to choose from the Audio Control lc2i seems to be the best option. Chicagoclick, myself and Jrtmus have all offered up various systems, and this write up is along those lines.

You have to decide what your threshold of pain is in the wallet. Once you figure that out, the rest is easy. You can certainly hire a shop to install everything and for some that is a valid expense. I personally am very capable of installing and I am installing 99% of mysystem. but I paid Car Toys $1000 including the radio, sat tuner, and RCA runs, to install an aftermarket radio in our dash. I feel good saying its the first and probably the only one out there with a aftermarket radio in the dash. It was wroth it to me, to just hand it over. A lot of people dont like the kit, but its ok, its not their car

Once you decide how much you want to spend,
Then decide how much are you willing to do. You can find many subwoofer boxes already built with sub, that will sit underneath the panel in the back. Realistically when looking for amps, you really only need about 150 watts on a currently available rated amp. As JM will say, 1 watt is good for 93db or so depending on efficiency.

As for brands, Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Kicker, Focal, Audio Frog, the list goes on and on. we are putting together some papers on wiring and speakers and amp choice and will have that out soon, but in the meantime, think about what I said, and post back here and we will try and help you out.

 

[shouldbeasy]

Stormy, Im going to chime in, its very difficult to really point out specific parts. The reason being is there are so many options at so many price points.


What you need to know is if you are up to any custom work? If yes, you have options to mount the tweeters up on the dash instead of the door, and do you want to build your own box for a sub, or buy one prebuilt?

The door speakers are 3/4 " for the tweeter if you stay in the door, and 6.5" for the lower part of the door. 6.5" in the rear doors if you decide to keep those.

If you add a sub, you really need a high level to low level converter. While there are numerous to choose from the Audio Control lc2i seems to be the best option. Chicagoclick, myself and Jrtmus have all offered up various systems, and this write up is along those lines.

You have to decide what your threshold of pain is in the wallet. Once you figure that out, the rest is easy. You can certainly hire a shop to install everything and for some that is a valid expense. I personally am very capable of installing and I am installing 99% of mysystem. but I paid Car Toys $1000 including the radio, sat tuner, and RCA runs, to install an aftermarket radio in our dash. I feel good saying its the first and probably the only one out there with a aftermarket radio in the dash. It was wroth it to me, to just hand it over. A lot of people dont like the kit, but its ok, its not their car

Once you decide how much you want to spend,
Then decide how much are you willing to do. You can find many subwoofer boxes already built with sub, that will sit underneath the panel in the back. Realistically when looking for amps, you really only need about 150 watts on a currently available rated amp. As JM will say, 1 watt is good for 93db or so depending on efficiency.

As for brands, Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Kicker, Focal, Audio Frog, the list goes on and on. we are putting together some papers on wiring and speakers and amp choice and will have that out soon, but in the meantime, think about what I said, and post back here and we will try and help you out.

I guess the level of custom work I am willing to do is limited to behind the scenes items - removing material to fit a larger speaker, making a sub enclosure that fits where the spare tire is currently and won't ever be seen sorta things. Not sure I am willing to modify the position of the speakers as I doubt I could make the install look as clean as stock.

Presently I have a Sprinter build that is draining my wallet and so I would like to spend the minimum or rather, spend the right amount and get a good return / solid bang for my buck. I don't have any complaints about the stock head unit and would like to retain voice controls, steering wheel controls and such - hopefully that's possible with still upgrading the sound quality.

After reading the thread again, it seems I need to determine if my speakers are 4ohm or 8ohm and that will dictate whether or not I can replace them directly and anticipate better sound. Then it becomes more convoluted for me as the next step seems to be perhaps more than I am willing to tackle at this point in time.

As mentioned, lower price point, good bang for my buck and ideally rounding out the sound to a point where I won't have to touch it again.

Thanks for the input!

 

[chicagoslick]

I guess the level of custom work I am willing to do is limited to behind the scenes items - removing material to fit a larger speaker, making a sub enclosure that fits where the spare tire is currently and won't ever be seen sorta things. Not sure I am willing to modify the position of the speakers as I doubt I could make the install look as clean as stock.

Presently I have a Sprinter build that is draining my wallet and so I would like to spend the minimum or rather, spend the right amount and get a good return / solid bang for my buck. I don't have any complaints about the stock head unit and would like to retain voice controls, steering wheel controls and such - hopefully that's possible with still upgrading the sound quality.

After reading the thread again, it seems I need to determine if my speakers are 4ohm or 8ohm and that will dictate whether or not I can replace them directly and anticipate better sound. Then it becomes more convoluted for me as the next step seems to be perhaps more than I am willing to tackle at this point in time.

As mentioned, lower price point, good bang for my buck and ideally rounding out the sound to a point where I won't have to touch it again.

Thanks for the input!

shouldbeasy,

With your latest response, I would suggest just adding a sub-woofer. This is generally the first and most bang for your buck mod you can do to improve the system. Just as antactica24 stated, there are a few write-ups on this subject and it is well within your budget of $500.

Best of luck

 

[shouldbeasy]

shouldbeasy,

With your latest response, I would suggest just adding a sub-woofer. This is generally the first and most bang for your buck mod you can do to improve the system. Just as antactica24 stated, there are a few write-ups on this subject and it is well within your budget of $500.

Best of luck

Which is odd, as I tend to turn away from subwoofers in my vehicles. Generally I've got good enough sound without them! Perhaps I need to do some more searching regarding what's involved with adding one to the stock system.

I will be checking my speaker resistance though - I think that I will be replacing them at some point.

 

[antarctica24]

Which is odd, as I tend to turn away from subwoofers in my vehicles. Generally I've got good enough sound without them! Perhaps I need to do some more searching regarding what's involved with adding one to the stock system.

I will be checking my speaker resistance though - I think that I will be replacing them at some point.

I'm going to have to agree, in th grand scheme of things while your normal speakers are producing 40 hertz it is down like 12-16db. 6.5" drivers are really capable of reproducing those frequencies to match the rest of the system. Adding a sub is the first best upgrade you could do to the factory system to get the most out of your money.

 

[Autonomous]

A lot of people think of a sub as that guy rattling the metal siding of the Burger King while waiting for their burger (this was me as a kid). But really, adding a 10" powered speaker will give you a portion of the music that you are missing, and setting it properly will keep it from overpowering the rest of the system.

You'd be surprised how much feeling in the music is down low where your average door speaker can't play.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Jking]

I am not grasping the DAC prices. An Ess Sabre Dac chip is around $45 and the best and quietest clocks are around $25 each. There is no big mystery about the circuit of say a Sabre based DAC. I suppose you could dump some money in the power supply with transformers wound by Buddhist monks and exotic caps and resisters. For a 150.00 you can buy a surplus Russian atomic clock and have as perfectly timed digital if the DAC or converter if it allows for external clocks. This is just an observation and I am probably showing ignorance.
I am not expecting much out of the audio system, but could the speakers be improved? Is there a close match that has better resolution and still held the original tuning? A high sensitivity would be nice too. Been using mostly the CD source from the stock HU as Sirius isn't very good at all. Also be fun to tinker with the stock HU and see if you could bypass the amp (low level outs) or add a digital out for it. Would be above my paygrade and probably no schematics would be available.

 

[antarctica24]

I am not grasping the DAC prices. An Ess Sabre Dac chip is around $45 and the best and quietest clocks are around $25 each. There is no big mystery about the circuit of say a Sabre based DAC. I suppose you could dump some money in the power supply with transformers wound by Buddhist monks and exotic caps and resisters. For a 150.00 you can buy a surplus Russian atomic clock and have as perfectly timed digital if the DAC or converter if it allows for external clocks. This is just an observation and I am probably showing ignorance.
I am not expecting much out of the audio system, but could the speakers be improved? Is there a close match that has better resolution and still held the original tuning? A high sensitivity would be nice too. Been using mostly the CD source from the stock HU as Sirius isn't very good at all. Also be fun to tinker with the stock HU and see if you could bypass the amp (low level outs) or add a digital out for it. Would be above my paygrade and probably no schematics would be available.

Wow that's a mouth full. On this forum is instructions for using forscan to cut off the amp and convert the high level speaker leads to low lever 4 volt output.

As for Dacs the sabre are ok. The AKM are better. Only one car stereo uses the akm and that's the pioneer prs-99. It might be argued that the burr brown were a close 2nd. I think the amount of money involved in swapping out the dac in this system would just be a waste. Cause the rest of the equipment is junk.

Now tapping the cd signal prior to dac and going fiber to an outboard dac is another question.

But their are options

Your iPhone through the lightning cable is digital and you can come out of that to an outboard dac then to an amp then to the speakers. Then you could use any dac you wanted.

Here's proof about the sabre dac. A company called oppo located at www.oppo.com sells one of the most advanced bluay players available. They used to use the sabre and now use the akm. That should be enough to convince you.

 

[chicagoslick]

Wow that's a mouth full. On this forum is instructions for using forscan to cut off the amp and convert the high level speaker leads to low lever 4 volt output.

As for Dacs the sabre are ok. The AKM are better. Only one car stereo uses the akm and that's the pioneer prs-99. It might be argued that the burr brown were a close 2nd. I think the amount of money involved in swapping out the dac in this system would just be a waste. Cause the rest of the equipment is junk.

Now tapping the cd signal prior to dac and going fiber to an outboard dac is another question.

But their are options

Your iPhone through the lightning cable is digital and you can come out of that to an outboard dac then to an amp then to the speakers. Then you could use any dac you wanted.

Here's proof about the sabre dac. A company called oppo located at www.oppo.com sells one of the most advanced bluay players available. They used to use the sabre and now use the akm. That should be enough to convince you.

I am not grasping the DAC prices. An Ess Sabre Dac chip is around $45 and the best and quietest clocks are around $25 each. There is no big mystery about the circuit of say a Sabre based DAC. I suppose you could dump some money in the power supply with transformers wound by Buddhist monks and exotic caps and resisters. For a 150.00 you can buy a surplus Russian atomic clock and have as perfectly timed digital if the DAC or converter if it allows for external clocks. This is just an observation and I am probably showing ignorance.
I am not expecting much out of the audio system, but could the speakers be improved? Is there a close match that has better resolution and still held the original tuning? A high sensitivity would be nice too. Been using mostly the CD source from the stock HU as Sirius isn't very good at all. Also be fun to tinker with the stock HU and see if you could bypass the amp (low level outs) or add a digital out for it. Would be above my paygrade and probably no schematics would be available.

Jking,

You ask a question that is really about personal preference. What sounds good to you may not sound good to me and so on and so on. Ultimately anything you change on the stock system impacts the factory tuning. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. You will have to be the judge of that. With that said, many on this forum have had success just changing the stock speakers with various brands like Polk Audio, Alpine, RF, MTX, Pioneer, JL, etc. If I were to do it all over again and I were only looking to upgrade the speakers, I would probably go with the Pioneer. Their price and performance are hard to beat. Second would probably be the Polk Audio. Search this forum and you will find many discussing this very topic.

As far as DAC's, I would not get too wrapped up in that unless you are bringing it up as a means of conversation on building your own DSP or modifying the factory unit. If that is the case I'm not sure this is the best forum for it. We do have a few guys (antarctica24, jmrtsus, Stormy) with the knowledge and experience to guide you, but it is probably beyond the layman to fully grasp, build, tune, and use. The guys stated above have all gone different routes, just as I have, and there are write-ups in the forum discussing some of what each have done.

Note:
I am not stating this to offend you or say you are not capable, just that it is complex for most people.

 

[chicagoslick]

Wow that's a mouth full. On this forum is instructions for using forscan to cut off the amp and convert the high level speaker leads to low lever 4 volt output.

As for Dacs the sabre are ok. The AKM are better. Only one car stereo uses the akm and that's the pioneer prs-99. It might be argued that the burr brown were a close 2nd. I think the amount of money involved in swapping out the dac in this system would just be a waste. Cause the rest of the equipment is junk.

Now tapping the cd signal prior to dac and going fiber to an outboard dac is another question.

But their are options

Your iPhone through the lightning cable is digital and you can come out of that to an outboard dac then to an amp then to the speakers. Then you could use any dac you wanted.

Here's proof about the sabre dac. A company called oppo located at www.oppo.com sells one of the most advanced bluay players available. They used to use the sabre and now use the akm. That should be enough to convince you.

I am not grasping the DAC prices. An Ess Sabre Dac chip is around $45 and the best and quietest clocks are around $25 each. There is no big mystery about the circuit of say a Sabre based DAC. I suppose you could dump some money in the power supply with transformers wound by Buddhist monks and exotic caps and resisters. For a 150.00 you can buy a surplus Russian atomic clock and have as perfectly timed digital if the DAC or converter if it allows for external clocks. This is just an observation and I am probably showing ignorance.
I am not expecting much out of the audio system, but could the speakers be improved? Is there a close match that has better resolution and still held the original tuning? A high sensitivity would be nice too. Been using mostly the CD source from the stock HU as Sirius isn't very good at all. Also be fun to tinker with the stock HU and see if you could bypass the amp (low level outs) or add a digital out for it. Would be above my paygrade and probably no schematics would be available.

Jking,

You ask a question that is really about personal preference. What sounds good to you may not sound good to me and so on and so on. Ultimately anything you change on the stock system impacts the factory tuning. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. You will have to be the judge of that. With that said, many on this forum have had success just changing the stock speakers with various brands like Polk Audio, Alpine, RF, MTX, Pioneer, JL, etc. If I were to do it all over again and I were only looking to upgrade the speakers, I would probably go with the Pioneer. Their price and performance are hard to beat. Second would probably be the Polk Audio. Search this forum and you will find many discussing this very topic.

As far as DAC's, I would not get too wrapped up in that unless you are bringing it up as a means of conversation on building your own DSP or modifying the factory unit. If that is the case I'm not sure this is the best forum for it. We do have a few guys (antarctica24, jmrtsus, Stormy) with the knowledge and experience to guide you, but it is probably beyond the layman to fully grasp, build, tune, and use. The guys stated above have all gone different routes, just as I have, and there are write-ups in the forum discussing some of what each have done.

Note:
I am not stating this to offend you or say you are not capable, just that it is complex for most people.

 

[antarctica24]

Jking,

You ask a question that is really about personal preference. What sounds good to you may not sound good to me and so on and so on. Ultimately anything you change on the stock system impacts the factory tuning. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. You will have to be the judge of that. With that said, many on this forum have had success just changing the stock speakers with various brands like Polk Audio, Alpine, RF, MTX, Pioneer, JL, etc. If I were to do it all over again and I were only looking to upgrade the speakers, I would probably go with the Pioneer. Their price and performance are hard to beat. Second would probably be the Polk Audio. Search this forum and you will find many discussing this very topic.

As far as DAC's, I would not get too wrapped up in that unless you are bringing it up as a means of conversation on building your own DSP or modifying the factory unit. If that is the case I'm not sure this is the best forum for it. We do have a few guys (antarctica24, jmrtsus, Stormy) with the knowledge and experience to guide you, but it is probably beyond the layman to fully grasp, build, tune, and use. The guys stated above have all gone different routes, just as I have, and there are write-ups in the forum discussing some of what each have done.

Note:
I am not stating this to offend you or say you are not capable, just that it is complex for most people.

Agreed, as Chicgoslick indicates, All of the processors available all use something different. For the most part, you probably would never hear the difference in this environment. It doesnt stop me from being picky but I would not get hung up on it. It always sounds better in your head, especially if you spent extra money on it.

The DAC or Digital to Analog Converter chip for those that dont know, simply takes a digital signal (which is ones and zeros), that you cannot hear, and converts it to a analog sine wave signal that you can hear that is based on frequency modulation among other things.

The DAC is only 1 small part of the equation. There is the clock chip, and the OP amps (operational Amplifier), the input and output caps, all of which make the DAC perform the way it does. It is not like the car, where you can mix and match components. Due to voltage constraints, heat constraints, timing, and other odds and ends, (I am not an electrical engineer), only certain pieces work with other pieces. The things your looking at are just the DACS. The chip. Nothing else. If you go out and do a search on Outboard DAC for PC, "" MAC, ""Iphone, Andriod, ipad, tablet, you will find a huge variety of examples. The brand DragonFly is an example among many, and ChicagoSlick is right, it is such a personal preference. On a reference system can you hear the difference? Yes, but the differences are subtle. For example, In a specialized environment like a studio or well insulated and isolated home system with some really expensive gear, you might hear a symbol crash last longer on one dac as opposed to another one. Some people say there is a difference in the fiber you use glass vs plastic to get the signal from your source to the dac itself. I am not sure that would even be possible as it is just ones and zeros, but we audiophiles are a special group of nut jobs. I of course do not fall into the category of wanting to buy glass fiber but I am the nut job that would spend wayyyyyy too much money in a car audio system. Way more than you would ever need.

If you decide you want to go that far and upgrade to a system with a processor that will let you tune the system, there are a lot of options from $150-$5000. That covers dedicated car gear to pro gear you can use in the car with some effort.

Pick yourself some really nice aftermarket speakers, get them playing and see how you like it. If you want more, add a sub, if you want more, add an amp, if you want more then look at a processor to retune the system.

We could spend years on here talking about the subtle differences in one DAC and another, and never come to any real conclusions, other than, the DAC in the Ford system is not as good as an aftermarket setup, but the DAC in the Ford system is enough to enjoy a set of affordable aftermarket speakers, and have a good time and not spend a fortune.

I hope that helps a little bit.

 

[Jking]

I know a little about two channel audio, but not much about car audio. Kind of got on a weird tangent with the DAC, but many thanks for the write up and input.

 

[antarctica24]

I know a little about two channel audio, but not much about car audio. Kind of got on a weird tangent with the DAC, but many thanks for the write up and input.

No problem, I am a huge 2 channel guy. Though with my home setup I would probably call it a 3.2 as I have a center channel and 2 subs. But more or less 2 channel. Car audio is no different. Car audio for the most part Left Right Front, and Sub. You can add a center channel, and you can add rear speakers, but to get the center to process correctly you need center channel information or you need a processor that will create center channel information from left and right information. Rear speakers are just rear speakers. I delete them in every system I do because they distract from the front, aka 2 channel guy like yourself. Some people like that rear fill sound and that is ok, its a personal preference.

We have a lot of guys in this thread that have done different types of systems, if you are looking to put something together and have any questions do not hesitate to ask. We can overwhelm you with suggestions

 

[IbendTools]

Ok after having read through a few of these fiesta audio threads, I decided to start small and get some better components for the front door. I’m going to try out those Pioneer TS-D1730 and go from there. I haven’t heard a lot of the Hertz brand on here. A lot of the local shops seem to be pushing them. The amps seem to give some good power, but am I better off with going with something from JL or Pioneer to power these components? I’m Not really afraid of wiring and saying that, how do I add to this system from the stock head unit and have decent sound. Do I rip out all the stock components and start from scratch? I plan on spending $2500 max on my system and will be building it piece by piece. I’d like to have some bass down the road but would like to not spend a fortune on it. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

[antarctica24]

Ok after having read through a few of these fiesta audio threads, I decided to start small and get some better components for the front door. I’m going to try out those Pioneer TS-D1730 and go from there. I haven’t heard a lot of the Hertz brand on here. A lot of the local shops seem to be pushing them. The amps seem to give some good power, but am I better off with going with something from JL or Pioneer to power these components? I’m Not really afraid of wiring and saying that, how do I add to this system from the stock head unit and have decent sound. Do I rip out all the stock components and start from scratch? I plan on spending $2500 max on my system and will be building it piece by piece. I’d like to have some bass down the road but would like to not spend a fortune on it. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

There are so many options it’s silly. If your budgeting for 3500 there are lots of options. I’m a fan of the 10” variety. I’m doing 2 10” in mine then you have to consider stealth or not. You can look at my stereo competition thread to show what I’m doing but the options are limitless. You can pm me and we can go in depth if you want.