Necessity of Cooling

[Siestarider]

The blocked section of grill improves aero and gas mileage. During normal driving, there is plenty of air flow for cooling.

Tracking is another issue. Sustained high rpm runs us out of cooling. Easiest fix is turn the heater on hi. Your windows are down anyway, and it drops coolant and oil temps about 15 degrees.

I view the Mishi alternatives as over priced and under performing, based on what members who track have reported. After reading the Mishi intercooler thread, I do not trust them to report useful data or to be objective about what they sell.

Once my C39 is mounted and tuned, I doubt the heater trick will be adequate, as its barely adequate on stock turbo and Cobb S3. My next set of experiments will be on radiator and oil cooler ducting, picking back up on aero thread for cooling. I feel sure there are other less expensive ways to skin this cat rather than paying Mishi $1K.

 

[AZST]

The blocked section of grill improves aero and gas mileage. During normal driving, there is plenty of air flow for cooling.

So, would it be recommended to leave the grill entirely intact even with a DHM crashbar? I don't care much about showing off the bar if there are no positives and only negatives.

 

[M-Sport fan]

My next set of experiments will be on radiator and oil cooler ducting, picking back up on aero thread for cooling. I feel sure there are other less expensive ways to skin this cat rather than paying Mishi $1K.

PLEASE keep us informed on the above, and what you discover from your trials!

(And I FULLY agree with the last line of your post above. )

 

[Siestarider]

We have the blocked portion of grill, and blocked radiator exhaust with the shroud that enables the cooling fan to be effective at low speed and stopped in trafffic. Those little flaps on the passenger side are supposed to open at speed and enable more flow through that side of radiator at speed.

When I analyzed pressure in front of radiator, it does not vary appreciably by location, indicating the existing grill opening provides adequate pressure on upwind face. I suspect improvements are possible at shroud behind radiator. Pressure behind shroud is negative, and with extended air dam, lower from top to bottom of shroud. In theory there is emore flow available at speed by playing with air dam in front and shroud at rear. I am going to try an oil cooler mounted at shroud rear to reduce oil temp load on coolant. Then play with shroud to see what else is possible within its limits for low speed cooling, car still a DD for me.

Unfortunately there is not much room to work in, so components have to be slim. And I have the Meister GT1's to set up and C39 to tune first, so my parts will sit for a while before i have a chance to set up the next experiment.

 

[Xaendeau]

I'm swapping my radiator out in about two weeks for a mishimoto one I picked up for $420. I really love data and evidence, but I don't have the proper equipment to do what I would like. I'm going to do some datalogs before and after the radiator swap. It is pretty hot here, and in traffic I can routinely hit 230 F.

My best guess was that a radiator swap for $500 plus my own time in labor, was the best solution available to me. I would be very interested to see all of your findings.

Edit: fubar'd grammar.

 

[MisSTrouble]

I also picked up the Mishi radiator for $420 after I got fed up with how hot the FiST would get. It was bad enough that I'd consciously avoid any stop and go traffic because I'd regularly climb over 230 degrees and I've pinged the temp alarm twice, never mind trying to do an actual pull. 100+ Texas heat was just too much for it under normal daily driving. I changed nothing else but the radiator, and went back with the Motorcraft coolant. After the install (complete PITA, btw), my regular cruising temp goes between 180-190, even in the heat of the day. I've seen briefly over 200 once during a hard top speed run in Mexico but it immediately dropped back below 200 when I let out of it. Side by side, the stock radiator looks like a joke next to the Mishi one. My cooling system also holds almost a gallon more coolant than stock as well.

Does it have downsides? Absolutely. Even at $420, it was still pricier than I think it should be, and I love to shop, so that was as cheap as I could find it. Like I said earlier, the install was not fun at all, and took me about 4 hours to solo it (I'd recommend having a friend help). The welds on the end tanks were very nice, however stuff like the brackets looked like they'd been welded on by a drunk guy, and needed a little massaging before it'd fit my AC condenser properly. The bleeder valve they included felt kinda cheap, and I'm still not sure I trust it not to fail and leak. I may just switch it out for a bolt. These are quality issues that I don't think I shouldn't be running into for the amount of money I dropped on this. That being said, I can't argue with the results. I think I read somewhere on here about some FiST radiators being defective due to some sort of internal blockage, and maybe my 2016 was one of them. In any case, running hot isn't something I worry about anymore. Just my experience.

 

[Siestarider]

There must be variations in cars. Here in Fla temps and humidity are both 95 half the year. Mine never runs over 194 coolant in traffic or 80-90 cruising with wind behind me. On track, 245 coolant and 255 oil, or higher, are typical unless heater is on. Then 230 and 250, still hot but ECU is not pulling power. My assumption is Ford in ok with those temps, even if some of us are not. I just change oil more often.

But with more hp, tracking will become more heat abusive. I hate the idea of adding the weight, so am thinking more about optimizing what we have. Its going to be worse than just adding a cooler and bigger radiator because I will have to remove crash beam multiple times to test variations. On the other hand, I enjoy experimentation, so its fun to see what can be done. May fail, will not be the first time I chased a pressure differential theory past its useful reality. I fooled with undertrays for months before deciding I was not getting better aero and cooling. May have to improve hood vents and lower undertray plus air dam with splitter.

But had to wait till I had ride height set and maximum power before resuming experiments, otherwise wasting time. Dont't mind wasting time and money as long as its well thought out first. Mishi radiator may prove the best mod, but after reading their full intercooler thread I lost confidence in what they were doing. Looked more like sales than science to me.

 

[BronxBomber]

^^^I was NOT indicating that I was angry at, nor disappointed with, the Ford engineers for anything (including the grille block) they did , but I was angry at Ford in general for taking over 4 months to build/ship a small, somewhat simple car like a FiST to their customers who ordered one.

Especially since I get shit from some on here for even posting on this site, when I do not even have the car yet.

Boy, people just don't know how to let it go

 

[Jesse]

Yesteday I did AutoX @ Arizona Motorsports Park, temp was in the 80s during my runs and I hit coolant temp of 239. Course was less than 50 seconds and coolant and oil started at 190 degree and 180 degree for oil, they jumped up in just the 50 second runs all the way up to 239 for coolant and 220 for oil. I do have a bigger intercooler (MAPerformance) and this course was pretty fast, (2nd gear whole way) On the street daily driving nothing out of the ordinary. This summer anything over 100 degrees would make my coolant temp hit 230-240.... Pathetic cooling system on these cars, other thing I don't like our electric gauge we have. It shows 2 bars (in the normal range) as low as like 120 degrees all the way to 240.

I have seen the quality of mishimoto radiators and its not that great, I can't pay over 400 dollars for those type of welds and poor fitment i've seen from them in the past. They are worth 200 at max. Stock radiators cost 70-80 bucks new.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Boy, people just don't know how to let it go

Man, some people just cannot keep themselves from doing "it" in the FIRST place!

 

[Siestarider]

Yesteday I did AutoX @ Arizona Motorsports Park, temp was in the 80s during my runs and I hit coolant temp of 239. Course was less than 50 seconds and coolant and oil started at 190 degree and 180 degree for oil, they jumped up in just the 50 second runs all the way up to 239 for coolant and 220 for oil. I do have a bigger intercooler (MAPerformance) and this course was pretty fast, (2nd gear whole way) On the street daily driving nothing out of the ordinary. This summer anything over 100 degrees would make my coolant temp hit 230-240.... Pathetic cooling system on these cars, other thing I don't like our electric gauge we have. It shows 2 bars (in the normal range) as low as like 120 degrees all the way to 240.

I have seen the quality of mishimoto radiators and its not that great, I can't pay over 400 dollars for those type of welds and poor fitment i've seen from them in the past. They are worth 200 at max. Stock radiators cost 70-80 bucks new.

It would be nice if Ford confirmed these are acceptable operating temps. We do have a relatively high pressure cooling system. Oil stays reasonably stable at 260F. Some of these worries, maybe all of them, are based on experience with older cars that are not designed to run this hot. Maybe I am sweating extra on track for nothing by running the heater.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Maybe the engine factory installs a super strength head gasket??

Hitting those temps every once and a while might even be good for 'drying out' the oil from all of the short trip moisture it accumulates, as well as burning off all of the DI system caused fuel dilution dumped into the oil? (As long as the oil used can withstand those temps without breaking down/shearing as a result.)

But yes, I too would want to know if the engineers actually designed the 1.6 EB to run hot for max thermal efficiency, and the MPG/CAFE benefits that yields.

 

[Sekred]

Typical idea engine operating temps, source BMW.

Max economy/min emissions : 228 F
Light cruise/normal : 222.8 F
Load : 203 F
Max load : 176 F

 

[Intuit]

All the varying modifications, tunes, can account for the temperature variations. Just changing mechanical and/or ignition timing alone can have a significant impact on heat generation.

 

[DRock]

After opening up the grill and having the bumper off, I will say that you would be wasting your time opening the grill if you weren't running the DHM intercooler setup. You would just be letting more air hit the OEM crash beam.

And while I really don't want to bash a company, I went through 2 Mishimoto radiators before I just stopped and got a better quality one. Refuse to put one in this car regardless.

Before:

After:

 

[M-Sport fan]

And while I really don't want to bash a company, I went through 2 Mishimoto radiators before I just stopped and got a better quality one. Refuse to put one in this car regardless.

That is still the factory radiator in the FiST above?

I agree with you on the Mishimoto radiator, and the more I hear about them, the less I want to go through all of the pain of installing one of their products (besides the expense), regardless of where they are built, and how/why anyone defends them for their COA choice.

IF you had to go with an aftermarket radiator at this point, would you go with the 'built to order' (and resultant waiting time involved) one sold by 2J Racing?

 

[DRock]

That is still the factory radiator in the FiST above?

I agree with you on the Mishimoto radiator, and the more I hear about them, the less I want to go through all of the pain of installing one of their products (besides the expense), regardless of where they are built, and how/why anyone defends them for their COA choice.

IF you had to go with an aftermarket radiator at this point, would you go with the 'built to order' (and resultant waiting time involved) one sold by 2J Racing?

The FiST above does still have the factory radiator. It was another car that I dealt with Mishimoto on. Regardless, it was enough to never deal with that again. Also had 2 different catch cans leaking on me from them.

I would rather wait a while for something I trusted in than change out something multiple times just to "speed" things up. Or I would find out what kind of radiators The STOA uses on theirs and go that way.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I would rather wait a while for something I trusted in than change out something multiple times just to "speed" things up. Or I would find out what kind of radiators The STOA uses on theirs and go that way.

Same here, it's just that I wanted to have the front bumper assembly off of the car ONCE to do EVERYTHING (CP-E IC, VT Big Mouth, lower temp t-stat, radiator, and maybe; horns, oil cooler, and brake vent hoses), than to do it piecemeal, and wear out the fasteners with 10 different tear downs/re-assemblies.

 

[BronxBomber]

Same here, it's just that I wanted to have the front bumper assembly off of the car ONCE to do EVERYTHING (CP-E IC, VT Big Mouth, lower temp t-stat, radiator, and maybe; horns, oil cooler, and brake vent hoses), than to do it piecemeal, and wear out the fasteners with 10 different tear downs/re-assemblies.

That's what I'm hoping to do when I finally do order my DHM Race Intercooler. Don't want to have to disassemble everything multiple times. Intercooler/Crash bar, Thermostat, and possibly Radiator and oil cooler depending on how serious I get into tracking it.

 

[Capri to ST]

The FiST above does still have the factory radiator. It was another car that I dealt with Mishimoto on. Regardless, it was enough to never deal with that again. Also had 2 different catch cans leaking on me from them.

I would rather wait a while for something I trusted in than change out something multiple times just to "speed" things up. Or I would find out what kind of radiators The STOA uses on theirs and go that way.

The ST Octane academy FiST's have a stock radiator and rest of the cooling system, and have not had overheating (or any other kind of) problems. This is according to someone there that I spoke to while investigating the durability of our cars. He said that they had a number of 100+ degree days there this summer with no problems, that some of the FiST's have been in use there for a few years, and that they are of course driven hard.
He said they are basically stock overall, with a bigger handbrake added to help with the Ken Block-like stunts. I had seen somewhere else that they also have different brake pads and fluid, and roll cages.