Muffler delete, resonator delete, or both?

[amcnally336]

For sure man!
Your posts were actually among the more well thought out and well reasoned posts when I was doing all my research!
I almost PM'd you for advice!
I def left the stock resonator in and with the Vibrant it went from totally intolerable to not that big of a deal, but there is still def some drone in there now and then. I really liked how you explored some of the helmholtz stuff for cancelling the resonant frequencies. I mix audio as well, so I get where you are coming from! I just couldn't justify spending $700 on an exhaust that doesnt really improve performance at all before I upgraded my IC, RMM, and went E40. LOL
I read a thread that Milltek is releasing USDM hardware, so that could also be a good option alongside the thermal. Have you done any research/testing on that set-up?
But that will prolly come after the Bilstein B14s!!
Thanks for the civil input and not just getting defensive or freaking out...It's nice to have dynamic conversations with level-headed folk.
A lot of people just shoot off stuff they read about without actually playtesting, and that just bothers me sometimes. Its like those guys on the guitar forums who have read all the electronic engineering manuals and will insist that all tubes in a tube amp are equivalent and there is no difference in their sound...they clearly have never played their guitar through a nice NOS Mullard tube LOL

 

[Clint Beastwood]

For sure man!
Your posts were actually among the more well thought out and well reasoned posts when I was doing all my research!
I almost PM'd you for advice!
I def left the stock resonator in and with the Vibrant it went from totally intolerable to not that big of a deal, but there is still def some drone in there now and then. I really liked how you explored some of the helmholtz stuff for cancelling the resonant frequencies. I mix audio as well, so I get where you are coming from! I just couldn't justify spending $700 on an exhaust that doesnt really improve performance at all before I upgraded my IC, RMM, and went E40. LOL
I read a thread that Milltek is releasing USDM hardware, so that could also be a good option alongside the thermal. Have you done any research/testing on that set-up?
But that will prolly come after the Bilstein B14s!!
Thanks for the civil input and not just getting defensive or freaking out...It's nice to have dynamic conversations with level-headed folk.
A lot of people just shoot off stuff they read about without actually playtesting, and that just bothers me sometimes. Its like those guys on the guitar forums who have read all the electronic engineering manuals and will insist that all tubes in a tube amp are equivalent and there is no difference in their sound...they clearly have never played their guitar through a nice NOS Mullard tube LOL

ha yeah, music forums and photography forums are both... opinionated

 

[PlatinumFiST]

In In the video it doesn’t look straight piped, did u put the ultra quiet resonator where the stock muffler should be?

Yes the resonator was placed right at the back, so that it could visually almost pass as the muffler box.

After reading @Clint Beastwood 's posts about the thermal system, it officially takes higher priority. I am casually fascinated about acoustics but never thought about the exhaust much past wanting the car to sound more exciting. Definitely some reconsideration to be done..

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[Clint Beastwood]

Yes the resonator was placed right at the back, so that it could visually almost pass as the muffler box.

After reading @Clint Beastwood 's posts about the thermal system, it officially takes higher priority. I am casually fascinated about acoustics but never thought about the exhaust much past wanting the car to sound more exciting. Definitely some reconsideration to be done..

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:thumbsup:

There's a world of difference between a system that was assembled, and a system that was engineered. The thermal was engineered, and everyone loves it because of that. The CP-E is so close, I think it's chamber is a teensy bit too small, or its just the nature of a helmholtz resonator vs. a quarter wave. The Helmholtz covers a broader range but attenuates less, the quarter wave covers a narrow range but attenuates more.

 

[PlatinumFiST]

Time to put the thermal system on my Christmas list!

Edit: I remember seeing a Tom's Turbo Garage episode on youtube, of his galant VR4 IIRC where he built his own resonator after calculating the length he needed to snuff out the dominant frequency. I wish I could remember which one that was. Pretty cool that he was able to do it on his own. Unfortunately I don't possess the skill for my own system.

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[Clint Beastwood]

Time to put the thermal system on my Christmas list!

Edit: I remember seeing a Tom's Turbo Garage episode on youtube, of his galant VR4 IIRC where he built his own resonator after calculating the length he needed to snuff out the dominant frequency. I wish I could remember which one that was. Pretty cool that he was able to do it on his own. Unfortunately I don't possess the skill for my own system.

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Search for my identifying and mitigating drone thread, or my de-droning an MBRP thread, I have pretty thorough how-to's in there and I think I posted a calculator where you type in your drone frequency and it tells you how long the chamber needs to be

 

[SirThomas88]

Subscribed! Good info guys.

 

[PlatinumFiST]

Search for my identifying and mitigating drone thread, or my de-droning an MBRP thread, I have pretty thorough how-to's in there and I think I posted a calculator where you type in your drone frequency and it tells you how long the chamber needs to be

Found them, and subscribed to keep them bookmarked, and now I'm thinking of getting the boomy exhaust fixed much sooner rather than later. Thank you so much for posting all that info! And the calculator will be handy for my truck too.

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[jeff]

If you’re ready to pony up for a thermal, don’t purchase till you listen to the Mountune. Both sound fantastic.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

If you’re ready to pony up for a thermal, don’t purchase till you listen to the Mountune. Both sound fantastic.

I totally does, and looking at pics, specs, measurement I can’t figure out how they do it. Iirc its a weird diameter, but they also must have a quarter wave hidden in the muffler case or something. Haven’t been able to poke at one irl. Someone get your mountune muffler xrayed lol

 

[Clint Beastwood]

As an aside - my last round of diagnostics and measurements was spot on... at 92 degrees f. Now that it’s in the 40’s in the morning the sound changes until the exhaust heats up, so just a reminder that temp can affect the sound. My drone less mbrp drones a bit in cold weather so I need to adjust the length a bit And pack in a wad of steel wool to increase the delta of my custom resonator.

 

[JRifold]

Depends on your threshold. I'm a big acoustics nerd so it bugged me, nobody else ever noticed it. Long steep grade at low rpm, might hear it a bit.

Any performance loss with a resonator delete? I'm currently all stock exhaust with a COBB drop-in filter and MAPerformance IC.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Any performance loss with a resonator delete? I'm currently all stock exhaust with a COBB drop-in filter and MAPerformance IC.

No performance loss with the resonator delete, it's "expense neutral", nothing really gained nothing really lost. Externally it adds a little burble and gurgle to the exhaust, internally you only notice a tiny bit of increased resonance but the added "grumpiness" to the exhaust really doesn't carry into the interior. I did it, it sounded cool in tunnels and stuff but for the most part I couldn't hear it inside the car and wound up doing an exhaust (or 4) to get a little more noise. 2 years into ownership, I'm considering going back to stock exhaust because I like intake/turbo noise more than exhaust.

If you do cut the resonator out, you might consider having it done in such a way that the cut is where you'd need it to be to swap out the stock exhaust for aftermarket anyways, and have that joint v-banded. I have been really glad that I v-banded my stock exhaust, it makes it super easy to swap back on whenever I decide to flip flop again. All of my self-built exhaust systems are v-banded in the same place for easier install/removal.

The TL;DR of the resonator delete would be, there are no negatives aside from you spending the money to do it and deciding that it's not "enough".

 

[JRifold]

No performance loss with the resonator delete, it's "expense neutral", nothing really gained nothing really lost. Externally it adds a little burble and gurgle to the exhaust, internally you only notice a tiny bit of increased resonance but the added "grumpiness" to the exhaust really doesn't carry into the interior. I did it, it sounded cool in tunnels and stuff but for the most part I couldn't hear it inside the car and wound up doing an exhaust (or 4) to get a little more noise. 2 years into ownership, I'm considering going back to stock exhaust because I like intake/turbo noise more than exhaust.

If you do cut the resonator out, you might consider having it done in such a way that the cut is where you'd need it to be to swap out the stock exhaust for aftermarket anyways, and have that joint v-banded. I have been really glad that I v-banded my stock exhaust, it makes it super easy to swap back on whenever I decide to flip flop again. All of my self-built exhaust systems are v-banded in the same place for easier install/removal.

The TL;DR of the resonator delete would be, there are no negatives aside from you spending the money to do it and deciding that it's not "enough".

Excellent info. I appreciate it! I live in SoCal, so the laws here with regards to exhausts have to be at 95 decibels or below. I've been popped already and had to go back to stock. It's a hassle, to be honest. I do want to wake this car back up and I think a resonator delete is really all I need. What're your thoughts? Does this stay at or below the legal 95-decibel limit? Thanks!

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

I’m driving around with just the resonator delete.

It’s not really loud, but I wasn’t looking for more noise, just better noise. The car is still just as quiet as stock from the outside, but it has a bit more worble in the exhaust note which makes it worth it to me because the car is hardly any louder in situations where you’re at a constant rpm (highway, cruise control).

Inside it definitely is more buzzy. Again, not in a loud and obnoxious way but it’s just a little more than what the system had fully stock. I get single pops on decel relatively often although I can’t really get it to repeat with any regularity. Whether or not I got that from the resonator delete or the tune remains to be seen.

As for recommendations, that’s going to depend on 2 main factors: what’s your price point and what do you use the car for?

I spend a relatively significant amount of time on the highway, so I absolutely didn’t want to deal with an obnoxious volume. Hence I kept the stock muffler in place. In my opinion it’s how the car should have come from the factory.


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[JRifold]

I’m driving around with just the resonator delete.

It’s not really loud, but I wasn’t looking for more noise, just better noise. The car is still just as quiet as stock from the outside, but it has a bit more worble in the exhaust note which makes it worth it to me because the car is hardly any louder in situations where you’re at a constant rpm (highway, cruise control).

Inside it definitely is more buzzy. Again, not in a loud and obnoxious way but it’s just a little more than what the system had fully stock. I get single pops on decel relatively often although I can’t really get it to repeat with any regularity. Whether or not I got that from the resonator delete or the tune remains to be seen.

As for recommendations, that’s going to depend on 2 main factors: what’s your price point and what do you use the car for?

I spend a relatively significant amount of time on the highway, so I absolutely didn’t want to deal with an obnoxious volume. Hence I kept the stock muffler in place. In my opinion it’s how the car should have come from the factory.


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Hey! Not sure if this was directed at me, but here I go; I ended up doing the resonator delete. It hasn't made much of a difference except at cold starts. I do have a Whoosh Symposer Delete on the way, so I'd imagine that would make a larger difference. I want overall sound, but not the kind of sound that would get me pulled over, again. I'm currently running a COBB drop-in filter, with a Mountune charge pipe, and a MAPerformance IC. The turbo sounds are amazing for what I have under the hood.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Hey! Not sure if this was directed at me, but here I go; I ended up doing the resonator delete. It hasn't made much of a difference except at cold starts. I do have a Whoosh Symposer Delete on the way, so I'd imagine that would make a larger difference. I want overall sound, but not the kind of sound that would get me pulled over, again. I'm currently running a COBB drop-in filter, with a Mountune charge pipe, and a MAPerformance IC. The turbo sounds are amazing for what I have under the hood.

for what it’s worth, the turbo sounds you get with the Cobb drop in filter only get louder if you get a whoosh crossover pipe. I removed my intake and diverter to go in for service and a buddy riding shotgun was giggling at the fluttering and whatnot. Sure, the ITG is louder and more wooshy, but the crossover+drop in filter sounds pretty good.

I also moved my symposer hose (post delete) next to the air box and I swear it’s channeling a bit more intake noise into the passenger compartment

 

[JRifold]

for what it’s worth, the turbo sounds you get with the Cobb drop in filter only get louder if you get a whoosh crossover pipe. I removed my intake and diverter to go in for service and a buddy riding shotgun was giggling at the fluttering and whatnot. Sure, the ITG is louder and more wooshy, but the crossover+drop in filter sounds pretty good.

I also moved my symposer hose (post delete) next to the air box and I swear it’s channeling a bit more intake noise into the passenger compartment

Solid. I ordered a symposer delete from Whoosh and it's arriving today. I also installed my hot side charge pipe and that, paired with the drop-in gives off a very nice turbo spool and DV sound. Why would the crossover pipe make more sound? Obviously, its not plastic, maybe thats it?

The symposer hose; the accordian-looking one? That doesn't have a purpose other than channeling with sound from the symposer into the cabin. How would it make more noise if there's nothing going through it?

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Solid. I ordered a symposer delete from Whoosh and it's arriving today. I also installed my hot side charge pipe and that, paired with the drop-in gives off a very nice turbo spool and DV sound. Why would the crossover pipe make more sound? Obviously, its not plastic, maybe thats it?

The symposer hose; the accordian-looking one? That doesn't have a purpose other than channeling with sound from the symposer into the cabin. How would it make more noise if there's nothing going through it?

the hot side pipe added more on-boost sound, the crossover added more off throttle sound, the flutter and so on.

 

[JRifold]

the hot side pipe added more on-boost sound, the crossover added more off throttle sound, the flutter and so on.

Would the cross-over pipe be considered illegal in Cali? I'm reading anything that has altered emissions w/o an EO and/or CARB # is considered a no-go.