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Meaty Tires Thread
- Thread starter airjor13
- Start date
- Tags don't like rubber band low profile no need to apply meaty tires yummmm
We each can sure have different preferences
I like dual drilling or at least extra holes, less weight!
I like concave as well, deeper the better as long as strong, and light weight
Most 9 and wider wheels have some dish to them, some more than others, offset can have a lot to deal with that as well.
I do like the spokes to come out to the edge of the rim lips for added strength even on the deepest concave wheels.
I like dual drilling or at least extra holes, less weight!
I like concave as well, deeper the better as long as strong, and light weight
Most 9 and wider wheels have some dish to them, some more than others, offset can have a lot to deal with that as well.
I do like the spokes to come out to the edge of the rim lips for added strength even on the deepest concave wheels.
Sorry,
Got it mixed up a bit, I am a big fan of deep dished but not usually of big lips, at least not on cars
Deep dish pluses, depending on design and build quality of course:
1) Very strong outer lip support where most of the damage can occur to wheels.
2) Very stiff so less flex than many wheels
3) Look bigger than they are, 15's like 16s, 16's like 17's, etc so you can run smaller and lighter wheels, pay less for quality, more sidewall for better ride and pothole protection....
I still have 10 deep dish wheels and 4 6UL with lips but they serve the purpose so well I had to have them, the only 15x8 for my AS tires I could make fit over my BBK and have an offset I could use.
New tuner is really waking up the bottom end on the GT2560R making me fall in love with the car again, I always have loved it but more so now after two years of fighting lag. I wish he had tuned the EFR as he worked some great magic on it after it was on another car, I would of kept it.
I have been waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer so I can put the 15x9, deep dish, 225 Rival S setup back on, starting to spin the tires to much on the amazingly grippy 205/50/15 NeoGen. If anybody wants the maximum tire for 3 seasons this has to be it, lots of grip, great ride, low noise, low cost, put them on 8's and great feedback and control, I have slid around on them really pushing it but super easy to correct, quite fun actually.
I have a couple of days of 29 degree weather coming, at night for only a bit, I think I will go put on the Rival S today and just let the tires car warm up in the morning before driving it. The Rival S is not the overall best tire in all out summer only performance but it does the job I needed them for exceedingly well once the weather is warm enough as they have nearly instant grip, no warm up required which the other tires need a bit more time, they hook up like race tires, are easy to control at the limit and beyond, quite and ride really well. The newer version called the 1.5 will have better feedback, transition better, etc but might ride a bit rougher but still will be light years better than any good 17.
Got it mixed up a bit, I am a big fan of deep dished but not usually of big lips, at least not on cars
Deep dish pluses, depending on design and build quality of course:
1) Very strong outer lip support where most of the damage can occur to wheels.
2) Very stiff so less flex than many wheels
3) Look bigger than they are, 15's like 16s, 16's like 17's, etc so you can run smaller and lighter wheels, pay less for quality, more sidewall for better ride and pothole protection....
I still have 10 deep dish wheels and 4 6UL with lips but they serve the purpose so well I had to have them, the only 15x8 for my AS tires I could make fit over my BBK and have an offset I could use.
New tuner is really waking up the bottom end on the GT2560R making me fall in love with the car again, I always have loved it but more so now after two years of fighting lag. I wish he had tuned the EFR as he worked some great magic on it after it was on another car, I would of kept it.
I have been waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer so I can put the 15x9, deep dish, 225 Rival S setup back on, starting to spin the tires to much on the amazingly grippy 205/50/15 NeoGen. If anybody wants the maximum tire for 3 seasons this has to be it, lots of grip, great ride, low noise, low cost, put them on 8's and great feedback and control, I have slid around on them really pushing it but super easy to correct, quite fun actually.
I have a couple of days of 29 degree weather coming, at night for only a bit, I think I will go put on the Rival S today and just let the tires car warm up in the morning before driving it. The Rival S is not the overall best tire in all out summer only performance but it does the job I needed them for exceedingly well once the weather is warm enough as they have nearly instant grip, no warm up required which the other tires need a bit more time, they hook up like race tires, are easy to control at the limit and beyond, quite and ride really well. The newer version called the 1.5 will have better feedback, transition better, etc but might ride a bit rougher but still will be light years better than any good 17.
Sorry,
Got it mixed up a bit, I am a big fan of deep dished but not usually of big lips, at least not on cars
Deep dish pluses, depending on design and build quality of course:
1) Very strong outer lip support where most of the damage can occur to wheels.
2) Very stiff so less flex than many wheels
3) Look bigger than they are, 15's like 16s, 16's like 17's, etc so you can run smaller and lighter wheels, pay less for quality, more sidewall for better ride and pothole protection....
I still have 10 deep dish wheels and 4 6UL with lips but they serve the purpose so well I had to have them, the only 15x8 for my AS tires I could make fit over my BBK and have an offset I could use.
New tuner is really waking up the bottom end on the GT2560R making me fall in love with the car again, I always have loved it but more so now after two years of fighting lag. I wish he had tuned the EFR as he worked some great magic on it after it was on another car, I would of kept it.
I have been waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer so I can put the 15x9, deep dish, 225 Rival S setup back on, starting to spin the tires to much on the amazingly grippy 205/50/15 NeoGen. If anybody wants the maximum tire for 3 seasons this has to be it, lots of grip, great ride, low noise, low cost, put them on 8's and great feedback and control, I have slid around on them really pushing it but super easy to correct, quite fun actually.
I have a couple of days of 29 degree weather coming, at night for only a bit, I think I will go put on the Rival S today and just let the tires car warm up in the morning before driving it. The Rival S is not the overall best tire in all out summer only performance but it does the job I needed them for exceedingly well once the weather is warm enough as they have nearly instant grip, no warm up required which the other tires need a bit more time, they hook up like race tires, are easy to control at the limit and beyond, quite and ride really well. The newer version called the 1.5 will have better feedback, transition better, etc but might ride a bit rougher but still will be light years better than any good 17.
Got it mixed up a bit, I am a big fan of deep dished but not usually of big lips, at least not on cars
Deep dish pluses, depending on design and build quality of course:
1) Very strong outer lip support where most of the damage can occur to wheels.
2) Very stiff so less flex than many wheels
3) Look bigger than they are, 15's like 16s, 16's like 17's, etc so you can run smaller and lighter wheels, pay less for quality, more sidewall for better ride and pothole protection....
I still have 10 deep dish wheels and 4 6UL with lips but they serve the purpose so well I had to have them, the only 15x8 for my AS tires I could make fit over my BBK and have an offset I could use.
New tuner is really waking up the bottom end on the GT2560R making me fall in love with the car again, I always have loved it but more so now after two years of fighting lag. I wish he had tuned the EFR as he worked some great magic on it after it was on another car, I would of kept it.
I have been waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer so I can put the 15x9, deep dish, 225 Rival S setup back on, starting to spin the tires to much on the amazingly grippy 205/50/15 NeoGen. If anybody wants the maximum tire for 3 seasons this has to be it, lots of grip, great ride, low noise, low cost, put them on 8's and great feedback and control, I have slid around on them really pushing it but super easy to correct, quite fun actually.
I have a couple of days of 29 degree weather coming, at night for only a bit, I think I will go put on the Rival S today and just let the tires car warm up in the morning before driving it. The Rival S is not the overall best tire in all out summer only performance but it does the job I needed them for exceedingly well once the weather is warm enough as they have nearly instant grip, no warm up required which the other tires need a bit more time, they hook up like race tires, are easy to control at the limit and beyond, quite and ride really well. The newer version called the 1.5 will have better feedback, transition better, etc but might ride a bit rougher but still will be light years better than any good 17.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
I looked at the build thread and did not see them, must be buried in another thread but I found this on the for sale thread I started for the car.
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
I looked at the build thread and did not see them, must be buried in another thread but I found this on the for sale thread I started for the car.
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
I looked at the build thread and did not see them, must be buried in another thread but I found this on the for sale thread I started for the car.
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
They look deeper in person, different angle, etc, and really do look much bigger in diameter than my other 15's.
They also look less stretched in person, just the right amount of sidewall support to maximize the grip, feedback, etc, proven to be considerably faster than the same tires on 8" wide wheels.
With LSD, suspension bushings, -2.5 camber(I like a bit more but give up traction and braking to much on a FWD dual use vehicle) the EFR turbo kicked in like mad at 4500 RPM, did not spin the tires in second gear, a lot of grip for a 225 street tire on public roads!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BC Racing coilovers, camber changed by drilling new holes in the strut towers as the wheels are to wide to allow adjusting at the strut to knuckle area which I would of preferred.
Springs are 8/7K swifts, car lowered the most it can be done and maintain proper suspension geometry which makes it also far more street friendly.
Many cars are lowered far to much and negatively effect handling to a great degree.
Unfortunately it is a major project to put 9" wide wheels on the rear of this car, roll and pull fenders as far as you can go and then a camber change which I did by cutting, relocating and welding the axle flanges. (I have built full race cars, cages, etc...moddifing the axle is not a normal DIY project but can be done)
Wheels are Konig Helix, 13.4 lb flow formed so nearly as strong as forged wheels, I bought ten of them for $1240 shipped!
Springs are 8/7K swifts, car lowered the most it can be done and maintain proper suspension geometry which makes it also far more street friendly.
Many cars are lowered far to much and negatively effect handling to a great degree.
Unfortunately it is a major project to put 9" wide wheels on the rear of this car, roll and pull fenders as far as you can go and then a camber change which I did by cutting, relocating and welding the axle flanges. (I have built full race cars, cages, etc...moddifing the axle is not a normal DIY project but can be done)
Wheels are Konig Helix, 13.4 lb flow formed so nearly as strong as forged wheels, I bought ten of them for $1240 shipped!
The main issue with 15x8 is the wrong offset, -25 or worse, -35mm is the least I would want to go with.
Nearly all the good wheels do not bolt up to this car, why I did the 4x100 conversion
The TD in 15x8 if you can get them are very good wheels, a bit heavier and not flow formed but heat treated and used a lot in racing, they have a nice look, reasonable but cost more.
My other wheels, 15x8 6UL, 11.4 lbs, flow formed, engineered for racing, dual valve stems, +36 offset but do not have a concave look. If I end up keeping the car I might end up adding flares and get the new 245 wide summer only tires that just came out and put them on 15x10 6ul and if I track the car seriously get the 15x11 and use 275 slicks all around
Nearly all the good wheels do not bolt up to this car, why I did the 4x100 conversion
The TD in 15x8 if you can get them are very good wheels, a bit heavier and not flow formed but heat treated and used a lot in racing, they have a nice look, reasonable but cost more.
My other wheels, 15x8 6UL, 11.4 lbs, flow formed, engineered for racing, dual valve stems, +36 offset but do not have a concave look. If I end up keeping the car I might end up adding flares and get the new 245 wide summer only tires that just came out and put them on 15x10 6ul and if I track the car seriously get the 15x11 and use 275 slicks all around
The sidewall stiffness, rim width and air pressure make the difference in feedback and response, not the diameter of the wheel directly.
That is one reason why I always recommend a slight stretch on the tire, most 205's are better on an 8" rim, 225's on a 9", 245's on a 10".
As in all thing we need to find the right balance firmness, sidewall support, run the right air pressure, etc....AND we need to ensure the real specs are considered, not sidewall specs, actual section and tread width, diameter and weight are all important including the class of the tire and feedback from knowledgeable users and professional testers and racers.
A tall, wide, tire on a narrow wheel will certainly be more "squishy" feeling though could have a lot of grip.
A shorter, narrower tire stretched a bit would normally ride firmer but still offer a better ride in 15 than 17" in the same tire and can have great feedback and control.
The 225 Rival S is known to have a bit softer sidewalls than some performance tires, firmer than normal tires for sure, my 225's on 9" wide wheels are a great balance of huge grip, great feedback and ride hugely better than 17''s and far less noisy not just in tire to road surface noise but in the energy transfered into the chassis noise and vibration(same thing just different frequencies involved)
The new Rival S 1.5 was designed to make up a bit of the difference over the other ultra grip tires, stiffer sidewalls.
The Rival S is primarily an autocross tire and many classes force the use of less than optimum wheel width per tread width (sidewall markings, which vary greatly to allow use of much more rubber on the ground than a specific formula would create). Making the sidewalls stiffer will help out greatly making the tire more competitive in more classes.
-----------
One thing I did not mention clearly is the lighter the wheels and tires besides better in every aspect of performance, ride and handling, less chassis wear, is the grip is increaded as well due to the tire staying on contact over bumps much better.
When really getting into the fine details of suspension setup as in all out racing this means one can run softer springs and damper settings to help even more, stiff means bouncing the tires off the surface causing loss of grip, softer suspensions keep them planted.
-------------
I run 9k front and 8k rear springs with my dampers on mid settings on the street, much firmer on track, the Swift springs can be firmer as more linear and precise in their response to the road surface, they help control body roll enough I only have a stock front sway bar with stiffer bushings and adjustable end links(to remove and preload from side to side)
A little body roll is OK as long as it helps promote tire contact, two stiff of springs or sway bars, tires, lowered to much all contribute to loss of contact thus grip.
-----------------
A bit off topic but this may help explain my passion for light weight wheels and proper tire sizing as it is a huge part of my successes.
Over the decades I have beaten hundreds of cars with big budget builds that simply were not setup properly and the causes were most often in wrong tire and wheel package, springs to stiff, big killer is a car lowered to much, alignment, etc....
My particular Fiesta was not setup to race against similar cars in a particular class, it was built to take on exotic cars on road race tracks, not to beat them all just to keep up well and then let the drivers decide the results and most owners of such cars really do not know how or are afraid to push the limits of such cars. It is far more fun the come in right behind a super car in an "underdog" car than beat one in another super car, anybody that can drive can do that, not a real challenge in HPDE and at many levels in autocross.
Autocross, I build my cars they way I want then run whatever class they fall into and usually the wrong car but I can beat nearly everyone no matter what they have or have done to it, 2nd and 3rd places are great to achieve in fast classes where none would even consider my cars a contender
Road course, same thing but I just run HPDE and sometimes TT events.
I look at all the cars and run against them all in my head, not really concerned with placement in a class most of the time but it is still a fun aspect. I set top time of the day in a 500 car autocross school once in a Toyota Matrix, that was FUN
That is one reason why I always recommend a slight stretch on the tire, most 205's are better on an 8" rim, 225's on a 9", 245's on a 10".
As in all thing we need to find the right balance firmness, sidewall support, run the right air pressure, etc....AND we need to ensure the real specs are considered, not sidewall specs, actual section and tread width, diameter and weight are all important including the class of the tire and feedback from knowledgeable users and professional testers and racers.
A tall, wide, tire on a narrow wheel will certainly be more "squishy" feeling though could have a lot of grip.
A shorter, narrower tire stretched a bit would normally ride firmer but still offer a better ride in 15 than 17" in the same tire and can have great feedback and control.
The 225 Rival S is known to have a bit softer sidewalls than some performance tires, firmer than normal tires for sure, my 225's on 9" wide wheels are a great balance of huge grip, great feedback and ride hugely better than 17''s and far less noisy not just in tire to road surface noise but in the energy transfered into the chassis noise and vibration(same thing just different frequencies involved)
The new Rival S 1.5 was designed to make up a bit of the difference over the other ultra grip tires, stiffer sidewalls.
The Rival S is primarily an autocross tire and many classes force the use of less than optimum wheel width per tread width (sidewall markings, which vary greatly to allow use of much more rubber on the ground than a specific formula would create). Making the sidewalls stiffer will help out greatly making the tire more competitive in more classes.
-----------
One thing I did not mention clearly is the lighter the wheels and tires besides better in every aspect of performance, ride and handling, less chassis wear, is the grip is increaded as well due to the tire staying on contact over bumps much better.
When really getting into the fine details of suspension setup as in all out racing this means one can run softer springs and damper settings to help even more, stiff means bouncing the tires off the surface causing loss of grip, softer suspensions keep them planted.
-------------
I run 9k front and 8k rear springs with my dampers on mid settings on the street, much firmer on track, the Swift springs can be firmer as more linear and precise in their response to the road surface, they help control body roll enough I only have a stock front sway bar with stiffer bushings and adjustable end links(to remove and preload from side to side)
A little body roll is OK as long as it helps promote tire contact, two stiff of springs or sway bars, tires, lowered to much all contribute to loss of contact thus grip.
-----------------
A bit off topic but this may help explain my passion for light weight wheels and proper tire sizing as it is a huge part of my successes.
Over the decades I have beaten hundreds of cars with big budget builds that simply were not setup properly and the causes were most often in wrong tire and wheel package, springs to stiff, big killer is a car lowered to much, alignment, etc....
My particular Fiesta was not setup to race against similar cars in a particular class, it was built to take on exotic cars on road race tracks, not to beat them all just to keep up well and then let the drivers decide the results and most owners of such cars really do not know how or are afraid to push the limits of such cars. It is far more fun the come in right behind a super car in an "underdog" car than beat one in another super car, anybody that can drive can do that, not a real challenge in HPDE and at many levels in autocross.
Autocross, I build my cars they way I want then run whatever class they fall into and usually the wrong car but I can beat nearly everyone no matter what they have or have done to it, 2nd and 3rd places are great to achieve in fast classes where none would even consider my cars a contender
Road course, same thing but I just run HPDE and sometimes TT events.
I look at all the cars and run against them all in my head, not really concerned with placement in a class most of the time but it is still a fun aspect. I set top time of the day in a 500 car autocross school once in a Toyota Matrix, that was FUN
I have BC coilovers because they were the only option when I bought them but they also worked really well on another car I built up, a custom setup the owner of BC worked with me directly on which was cool
I called and went over the selection according to my needs with their techs as several factors to consider and ordered directly through them.
Posting this so others can see what is involved, you may already know this but some may not.
1) rates obviously
2) range of rates the particular dampers will operate effectively in
3) diameter, inner and outer to ensure fit the dampers.
4) spring height for particular setup, longer springs almost always better for the most travel
5) changing suspension length, which a change to wheel width and offset contribute quite a bit to will change the effective spring rates
I would contact ST and let them help you pic what should be the best rates then order Swift springs from the best source if not them, they may sell another higher end spring or use them already on their products.
I called and went over the selection according to my needs with their techs as several factors to consider and ordered directly through them.
Posting this so others can see what is involved, you may already know this but some may not.
1) rates obviously
2) range of rates the particular dampers will operate effectively in
3) diameter, inner and outer to ensure fit the dampers.
4) spring height for particular setup, longer springs almost always better for the most travel
5) changing suspension length, which a change to wheel width and offset contribute quite a bit to will change the effective spring rates
I would contact ST and let them help you pic what should be the best rates then order Swift springs from the best source if not them, they may sell another higher end spring or use them already on their products.
Additional info:
The Swifts are so smooth in operation they did not really stiffen the ride much and support the rear of the car better than the stock BC progressive springs that bottomed out a couple times when the car was fully loaded, 600-700lbs, over big bumps. That no longer happens.
I had to remove one locking collar on the rear to get the car low enough but that worked out fine.
On the front I only have around 1/8" more adjustment left.
No worries as I only lowered the car enough to make it handle better, any lower and the geometry would be compromised and the car would handle much worse than stock height.
I would go over that with Swift as well as the travel, the springs need to protect the dampers from bottoming or topping out.
The Swifts are so smooth in operation they did not really stiffen the ride much and support the rear of the car better than the stock BC progressive springs that bottomed out a couple times when the car was fully loaded, 600-700lbs, over big bumps. That no longer happens.
I had to remove one locking collar on the rear to get the car low enough but that worked out fine.
On the front I only have around 1/8" more adjustment left.
No worries as I only lowered the car enough to make it handle better, any lower and the geometry would be compromised and the car would handle much worse than stock height.
I would go over that with Swift as well as the travel, the springs need to protect the dampers from bottoming or topping out.
I'll vouch 8K 7K swift on BC Extreme low coilovers, which IMO give you a proper amount of adjustability, I fall in the "too low" section I'm sure but I have no issue with fender clearance after trimming that dumb tab
This is with factory tires on a 17x8 and almost as low as they go, so there is still full adjustment up... can't wait to try out the RT615K+ RF tires this summer
2016-09-03 11.00.51 by WOR287, on Flickr
This is with factory tires on a 17x8 and almost as low as they go, so there is still full adjustment up... can't wait to try out the RT615K+ RF tires this summer
Worfab,
I highly suggest raising the car up to where the ball joint pivot point is just slightly lower than the front pivot point of the inboard control arm mount then raise the rear slightly higher than the front, take it for a serious drive and feel the diffence in ride, handling, etc....you might be swayed to keep it there
Your car will be better in many ways and create a lot less stress on the suspension and chassis and just easier to drive.
It will be much safer going over bumps and especially in on slippery surfaces.
I build my cars to drive, not get looked at though I like a compliment of course and I get them all the time with this car sitting at a proper ride height, really, have had hundreds of them and only 13k miles on the car in 3 years!
Most sincerely,
Rick
I highly suggest raising the car up to where the ball joint pivot point is just slightly lower than the front pivot point of the inboard control arm mount then raise the rear slightly higher than the front, take it for a serious drive and feel the diffence in ride, handling, etc....you might be swayed to keep it there
Your car will be better in many ways and create a lot less stress on the suspension and chassis and just easier to drive.
It will be much safer going over bumps and especially in on slippery surfaces.
I build my cars to drive, not get looked at though I like a compliment of course and I get them all the time with this car sitting at a proper ride height, really, have had hundreds of them and only 13k miles on the car in 3 years!
Most sincerely,
Rick
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