Brakes - How-to for FiST?

[billdo!]

That's about it.
Yes, after completing all of the mechanical work, then start bleeding.
The cap must off or very loose so that the fluid can flow easily.
Using a clear tube on the calipers bleed them one at a time, when there is no air from each caliper you are done.
Just don't forget to keep an eye on the master so that it does not run out of fluid.
BTW, no pumping of the brake pedal is required for this gravity bleed process.

[MENTION=540]billdo![/MENTION] , if you follow my method, how about posting any feedback so others can see how easy it is and how well it works or for sure if I left something out.


Dave

I'll let you guys know how it goes. I picked up a bleeder tool for $20 too, so one way or another, I'll get it done.

Anyone have a source for some torque values for for the caliper bolts and whatever else I'll want to torqued down properly?

Bill

 

[FieSTa Blanca]

The MightyVac works well but air can get by the threads of the bleed valve so it is hard to tell that you got all the air out.

I use a MityVac when working on my MG and a friend's Triumph, but I usually remove the bleed nipples first and apply grease around the threads to create an air seal. It seems to work much better that way.

 

[Ceecab705]

I'll let you guys know how it goes. I picked up a bleeder tool for $20 too, so one way or another, I'll get it done.

Anyone have a source for some torque values for for the caliper bolts and whatever else I'll want to torqued down properly?

Bill

Front brakes:
brake hose Torque: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
guide pin bolts Torque: 19 lb.ft (26 Nm)
brake caliper anchor plate Torque: 52 lb.ft (70 Nm)

Rear brakes
brake hose Torque: 159 lb.in (18 Nm)
brake caliper Torque: 26 lb.ft (35 Nm)
brake caliper anchor plate Torque: 52 lb.ft (70 Nm)

 

[billdo!]

Thanks Ceecab705!!!

 

[billdo!]

What are your thoughts on break in for the stock brakes?

 

[billdo!]

Brake job went fine. I replaced pads and rotors. I opened the bleeders for pressing the calipers back in. I did the gravity bleed process and it seemed to work fine. The brakes stop the car, so I'm assuming all is good. Haha. The rotors were seized on there pretty good of course, so the old ones got pretty banged up while I was removing them. I probably could've gone a little longer on the pads and rotors, but my rears were acting up. My passenger side rear didn't seem to be compressing while braking. The rotor surface was rusting and only showing friction on a narrow strip near the center. It turns out that the top slide pin on both sides was seized up in the caliper bracket. I lubed it up well with caliper grease and I'll keep my eye on it. The lowers were in great shape and all the pins on the front were moving great. And the new brakes feel like the old ones.

 

[XuperXero]

I just did a brake job recently and decided to try out Dave's method of bleeding. I can vouch that this is better than normally practiced procedure. You can literally see chunks of bubbles coming up the tubes from all 4 corners.

FYI, this will not work on the clutch fluid bleed, lol.

 

[mister2dood]

I did my brakes recently and had the same issue as billdo! above - the top slider pin on both rear calipers was seized. Looks like there was no grease on that pin from the factory. I was able to get them out, clean them up, and re-lube them.

 

[Solort]

I will use Hawk 5.0 pads for my ST replacement pads ( currently on my FRS). Great bite and modulation with only slight brake dust...

 

[TrickSTer]

Here's an ST specific video how-to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5Q6-Ee0UQ

 

[Intuit]

Front brakes:
brake hose Torque: 89 lb.in (10 Nm)
guide pin bolts Torque: 19 lb.ft (26 Nm)
brake caliper anchor plate Torque: 52 lb.ft (70 Nm)

Rear brakes
brake hose Torque: 159 lb.in (18 Nm)
brake caliper Torque: 26 lb.ft (35 Nm)
brake caliper anchor plate Torque: 52 lb.ft (70 Nm)

Front caliper mounting bolt torque is 19 Ft-Lbs.
Image from Service Manual is here...
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ABsZJDCN8kMMgaRF

I was thinking the 52 Ft-Lb was being quoted as that value but went and looked it up in my manual after thinking that number was quite high.

Be careful not to mistake what torque goes where. Make no mistakes with brakes, as breaks with those mistakes are not guaranteed.

 

[Intuit]

In case this wasn't already mentioned, make sure your front pads are installed correctly.

A certain pad may go on the inside, versus the outside.

Photo as they were removed from my vehicle, is here...
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ABsZJDCN8kMMgaRG
Let us know if yours were installed different.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Is brake hose torque values for the hose-to-hardline connection?

Anyone have an estimate on banjo bolt torque for fomoco caliper and motorcraft hose? I've seen some people say 10ft*lb. I tried tightening mine to see if I could get a feel for "tighter than right" and definitely went above 10ftlb with no budging. Is it always by feel because of crush washers? I've used those thin deforming ones many years ago on a previous car oil drain plug, but these are solid copper.

I reckon just tighten until I feel two weird compression feelings, and if leaks after a day or so, tighten an extra "ugga dugga", that sound alright?

 

[Intuit]

Since we seem to get conflicting info out of the manual, may have to go by feel. 🙄

Pay attention to in-lbs vs ft-lbs. I've broken a bolt on a prior car, not paying attention.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/conversion/inch-pounds-to-foot-pounds

I did look for general torque specs where they specify torque, based on bolt head size. Didn't see that in the manual. May or may not be in there.

 

[scooter123]

Guys, there is a way to insure that air doesn't get past the threads on the bleed valve. It's GREASE, the thicker the better. What you do is force the grease into the threads of the bleed valve when it's open, that will stop air intrusion. As for how to bleed the brakes, it's a pre-ABS method and I still drive my 1985 Monte Carlo SS which is pre-ABS. On a side note I'll mention that until I purchased by FiST in 2019 every care I owned was made before 1987. Frankly I see no need at all for ABS. Anyhow my method is simple, a clear glass jar with about 1 inch of fresh brake fluid in the bottom. Then a clear vinyl hose that is sized to snap onto the bleeder valve. Pump the brakes until no air bubbles are seen in the hose and close the bleeder valve. Add a bit of fresh brake fluid to the reservoir and then move onto the next brake and repeat until finished.

Now, if this won't work with ABS fell free to chime in. Because as I have learned these rotors are made using the softest iron on the planet and won't come close to yielding even 100,000 miles. Note, I kept driving GM G cars because parts were cheap and factory brake rotors were good for about 180,000 miles. On the Fist brakes and rotors went at 40K miles and the dealer charged me a bit north of 600 bucks for a complete brake job. So if anyone knows of rotors good for at lease 100K miles post up. I flat out can't believe how fast this factory crap wears out.

Finally just to point out just how poorly engineered cars are today for Maintenance just a couple of examples of what was involved the a mid 80's G car. Note, I still have one and the two used for daily drivers were both 1986 Olds Cutlass Supreme's with 307 V8's. One of the weakest V8's ever made.

Had an alternator go out on the Monte about 1994 or so. Had a good strong battery in the car so I was able to get to the NAPA shop I normally got parts from. The reman alternator cost me 29 dollars after turning in the core. It took me 12 minutes to change out the reman for the old alternator and get my core charge back. BTW, I always kept a complete tool set in the trunk. Brake pads on the G cars was about 10 minutes per wheel but could probably be done in 6 minutes if I rushed. Only ever bought one set of rotors because they were so long lasting, cost IIRC was in the range of 30 dollars per rotor. Time to swap out the rotors was probably 20 minutes per wheel but that is because I am a bit anal about packing wheel bearings and would pack them until nothing but clean new grease was coming out. Rear brakes are drums on the G cars and a bit of a PITA but with practice 20 minutes per wheel is doable. Cost for pads were roughly 30 bucks per set in 1995 and the drums didn't even need to be turned at 128,000 miles on the first Cutlass. GM had a pretty heavy front wheel bias on the brakes because they carried a lot of weight up front and the weight transfer on heavy braking could get the rear brakes a bit squirrely in wet conditions. Point is at this time cars were actually easy to maintain and replacement parts were well made and long lasting.