Woods247 BrokeFiST Build

[Woods247]

That’s wild. I’ve never seen that but it kinda makes since. My OCD might not allow it though. I’m gonna dive in and see what they’re all about. Phil’s Tire is supposed to be getting some 17x8 4x108 Team Dynamics and KSport wheels this summer. I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[Woods247]

If there is enough meat in the wheels, Team Dynamics California used these on a set of wheels I sold someone years ago.

http://www.prestigewheel.com/mainInserts.htm

Make the 4x100 hole bigger and offset it for the 4x108 and use these inserts for strength.

Man I might find a shitty wheel on marketplace and try this just to see how it works

 

[cidsamuth]

I had my kit made by TCE. I chose large Wilwood racing 6 piston calipers with 13.06”x1.25” rotors. All of it required custom brackets

After install, I did a test fit with some crappy Sport Edition 17” rims in my garage, and they clear by a mile with 15mm spacers. But, with the Hypergrams, 20mm spacers got me less than 2mm of clearance, which I’m not comfortable with for a track car. See attached pics.

And before you say it, I run 20mm spacers on ARP extended studs in order to get fat 225/40/17 R7s to fit and clear my coilovers. I have cut fenders with flares.

 

[Fusion Works]

That’s wild. I’ve never seen that but it kinda makes since. My OCD might not allow it though. I’m gonna dive in and see what they’re all about. Phil’s Tire is supposed to be getting some 17x8 4x108 Team Dynamics and KSport wheels this summer. I’ll believe it when I see it.

I think Keizer was the first place I saw these way back in my FSAE days. They are a totally acceptable way to modify an aluminum wheel. However there has to be enough meat behind the lug seat to all the insert to no break through the wheel.

I love TD wheels. That is what I have on my Integra race car, but they are damn near impossible to deal with as a company. I was a dealer for them, but damn it was like pulling teeth to get an inventory from them on what wheels were in what container and when it will arrive. You would think in the days of modern inventory control data they could keep track of what was coming to the US.

 

[Fusion Works]

I had my kit made by TCE. I chose large Wilwood racing 6 piston calipers with 13.06”x1.25” rotors. All of it required custom brackets

After install, I did a test fit with some crappy Sport Edition 17” rims in my garage, and they clear by a mile with 15mm spacers. But, with the Hypergrams, 20mm spacers got me less than 2mm of clearance, which I’m not comfortable with for a track car. See attached pics.

And before you say it, I run 20mm spacers on ARP extended studs in order to get fat 225/40/17 R7s to fit and clear my coilovers. I have cut fenders with flares.

Nice kit, now you see why I went with the 12.88 x 1.10 rotor instead of the one you picked. I was pretty sure I could fit it, but the other compromises just weren't worth it. I had to grind the lip on the lower control arm slightly for a little better clearance on the rotor face. It looks like you are using the regular Superlite caliper instead of the Narrow. The Narrow would solve your problem. Just add the Thermolock pistons to the Narrow caliper instead.

There is to much scrub radius with such a large spacer. I am running no spacer on my Rotas (ET 40mm) and 5mm on the OE wheel. This means less torque steer and other undesirable steering behavior.

 

[Woods247]

Nice kit, now you see why I went with the 12.88 x 1.10 rotor instead of the one you picked. I was pretty sure I could fit it, but the other compromises just weren't worth it. I had to grind the lip on the lower control arm slightly for a little better clearance on the rotor face. It looks like you are using the regular Superlite caliper instead of the Narrow. The Narrow would solve your problem. Just add the Thermolock pistons to the Narrow caliper instead.

There is to much scrub radius with such a large spacer. I am running no spacer on my Rotas (ET 40mm) and 5mm on the OE wheel. This means less torque steer and other undesirable steering behavior.

Have you posted pics of your BBK and their build specs anywhere on the forum?

 

[Fusion Works]

Maybe in my build thread, let me look tonight.

 

[cidsamuth]

Nice kit, now you see why I went with the 12.88 x 1.10 rotor instead of the one you picked. I was pretty sure I could fit it, but the other compromises just weren't worth it. I had to grind the lip on the lower control arm slightly for a little better clearance on the rotor face. It looks like you are using the regular Superlite caliper instead of the Narrow. The Narrow would solve your problem. Just add the Thermolock pistons to the Narrow caliper instead.

There is to much scrub radius with such a large spacer. I am running no spacer on my Rotas (ET 40mm) and 5mm on the OE wheel. This means less torque steer and other undesirable steering behavior.

I’m okay with my choice of brake setup, though the test will be my first track day. With my standard Wilwood BBK, I burned through every track pad I tried in two days. Rotors in 4 track days. Brakes were costing me precious track time, so I wanted to take a big swing at it. This setup is comically big for the car.

As for the spacers, you are correct … torque steer and tramlining are increased exponentially …. especially with big turbo. But, the wider stance and huge slicks make for really fun track time. And, once you really get on the wheel and start hustling the car, you don’t notice the twitchiness of the steering.

 

[Fusion Works]

Have you posted pics of your BBK and their build specs anywhere on the forum?

Lets see if this works:
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/really-should-stop-modifying-my-daily-driver.21954/post-375717

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/really-should-stop-modifying-my-daily-driver.21954/post-375719

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/really-should-stop-modifying-my-daily-driver.21954/post-375721

 

[Fusion Works]

I’m okay with my choice of brake setup, though the test will be my first track day. With my standard Wilwood BBK, I burned through every track pad I tried in two days. Rotors in 4 track days. Brakes were costing me precious track time, so I wanted to take a big swing at it. This setup is comically big for the car.

As for the spacers, you are correct … torque steer and tramlining are increased exponentially …. especially with big turbo. But, the wider stance and huge slicks make for really fun track time. And, once you really get on the wheel and start hustling the car, you don’t notice the twitchiness of the steering.

Oh you were working with the Wilwood Fiesta kit? I am sorry, that is a street kit and should be sold as such. You got plenty of brakes now. I am using the BP30 pad and have no issue with brakes any more. I am also using a 3in duct for each front wheel.
Yes these cars desperately need more width when tracking them. My theoretical "big bearing" setup would allow for an increased track width easily.

 

[Woods247]

I’m okay with my choice of brake setup, though the test will be my first track day. With my standard Wilwood BBK, I burned through every track pad I tried in two days. Rotors in 4 track days. Brakes were costing me precious track time, so I wanted to take a big swing at it. This setup is comically big for the car.

As for the spacers, you are correct … torque steer and tramlining are increased exponentially …. especially with big turbo. But, the wider stance and huge slicks make for really fun track time. And, once you really get on the wheel and start hustling the car, you don’t notice the twitchiness of the steering.

I feel the same way. Usually it’s twitchy when the tires are coming up to temp first thing in the AM. After that it’s fine all day. If I run anything besides zero toe it’s unpredictable all the time though.

 

[cidsamuth]

Oh you were working with the Wilwood Fiesta kit? I am sorry, that is a street kit and should be sold as such. You got plenty of brakes now. I am using the BP30 pad and have no issue with brakes any more. I am also using a 3in duct for each front wheel.
Yes these cars desperately need more width when tracking them. My theoretical "big bearing" setup would allow for an increased track width easily.

My brake saga was a little more complicated.

My first 2 sets of calipers from the Wilwood kit blew the seals at the track, and Wilwood replaced under warranty. The third set did fine, except for excessive pad and rotor wear.

…. which I made worse when I had custom brackets made, so that they would fit on a 11.75” rotor and allow for a 15” wheel. Got that 15” wheel on and braking ability was fine, but the heat and wear was terrible. Literally, I couldn’t make it to a third track day on new pads, whether BP-30, DTC 60/70, GLOC R18, etc.

I also run ducting from the fog light area to backing plates from WOR Fabrications…. and I even have fans in those ducts on a toggle switch. 3” taken down to 2”, so that they can sneak under the axle and to the only spot the backing plate could reasonably use.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with on the hubs. I’ll quit hijacking this thread now

 

[Fusion Works]

Weird. The only time I had issues was when I tried to run my BP20 street pads for a long session with no ducting or some ducting that picked up under the chin spoiler. (long before I went bonkers with the splitter and such.

What tracks are you running? Perhaps we should talk about your braking technique.

Pretty sure you will have enough brake now to have no issues.

 

[cidsamuth]

Weird. The only time I had issues was when I tried to run my BP20 street pads for a long session with no ducting or some ducting that picked up under the chin spoiler. (long before I went bonkers with the splitter and such.

What tracks are you running? Perhaps we should talk about your braking technique.

Pretty sure you will have enough brake now to have no issues.

I'm at 30+ HPDEs, and I've been all over the "can I do something different" angle . . . to include putting instructors back in my car to analyze my techniques. Bottom line, with R7s, track prepped car, big turbo, and driver development, I'm just exceeding the speed that brake system could reasonably handle . . . or at least that's the conclusion I keep hearing over and over from credible racers. I've got lots of photos of the rotors glowing red like the top of an electric stove, LOL.

 

[Fusion Works]

Glowing rotors is not a big deal, happens all the time.

How much power are you making? What does your car weigh? Did you do anything to the rear brakes?

 

[Woods247]

Wilwoods melted and about killed my buddy in his FiST at Hutchinson Island years ago which is why I went with the ST40. Wheel fitment is inconvenient but I never have braking problems. I late brake like an ape and trail brake all the time and they’re always the same. I even use cheap Stoptech Street Performance pads too. They’re so effective I don’t have to run cooling ducts anymore.

 

[cidsamuth]

Glowing rotors is not a big deal, happens all the time.

How much power are you making? What does your car weigh? Did you do anything to the rear brakes?

27-28 lbs of boost on the S280 with all the supporting parts you can want, including 4-port fuel and E50. So, theoretically, 350RWHP. Car is stripped but caged. Comes in at almost exactly 2500 lbs. I have done the SVT upgrade on the rear, and I usually run DTC-30s there; I can generally make those last 1/2 track season.

 

[Fusion Works]

I don't remember much about Hutchinson Island, we did one race there with HSR more than a decade ago. I don't remember it being super hard on brakes?

Did you buddy put it in "track mode"? Not doing that will melt anything but solid tungsten probably.

Run cooling ducts, it will help with caliper life. Aluminum calipers become unhappy when the aluminum starts going above 400deg. Aluminum starts losing strength rapidly at high temperatures.

 

[Fusion Works]

27-28 lbs of boost on the S280 with all the supporting parts you can want, including 4-port fuel and E50. So, theoretically, 350RWHP. Car is stripped but caged. Comes in at almost exactly 2500 lbs. I have done the SVT upgrade on the rear, and I usually run DTC-30s there; I can generally make those last 1/2 track season.

Sounds like a riot. I should sell my extra SVT caliper brackets.

 

[Woods247]

I don't remember much about Hutchinson Island, we did one race there with HSR more than a decade ago. I don't remember it being super hard on brakes?

Did you buddy put it in "track mode"? Not doing that will melt anything but solid tungsten probably.

Run cooling ducts, it will help with caliper life. Aluminum calipers become unhappy when the aluminum starts going above 400deg. Aluminum starts loosing strength rapidly at high temperatures.

He knows how to drive. The brakes suck. Pads melted then seals melted and complete failure. He posted all about it on here somewhere.