Fiesta ST Intercooler Info Thread

[envyist]

^ I got the jline mishimoto because I plan to upgrade turbos down the road and this intercooler has plenty of room to grow powerwise. And with a freer breathing intake tract and exhaust I don't think any additional lag would be noticeable.

 

[MOFiST]

So have you put it on yet?
I know the j line is good.
I imagine a few guys have the j line by now.
Has it effected the bottom end much?
I know up top with the exhaust it should help but it is the low end spool/lag that I really use a lot in city traffic.
I not sure how much the tune could cure this as well?
No custom tuning options yet down under.

 

[MOFiST]

I'm now leaning towards this Treadstone TR6 >
http://www.edgeautosport.com/treadstone-tr6-intercooler-400hp/
It looks a good fit but not quite as huge as the Mishi J line but big enough for anything power wise and cheap enough.
Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[HaveBlue83]

I will be going ATP turbo FMIC. its a garrett core

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-FIE-003&Category_Code=FIE

 

[iso100]

From what I saw those Airtec end tanks were pure sex. I'm considering one when I decide to completely buttrape my powertrain warranty.

 

[MOFiST]

I will be going ATP turbo FMIC. its a garrett core

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-FIE-003&Category_Code=FIE

From what I saw those Airtec end tanks were pure sex. I'm considering one when I decide to completely buttrape my powertrain warranty.

Both good. I also like the Airtec. AS does the Airtec for about $600 US free shipping from UK.
On anther note Forge also put out some data about why they chose Tube & Fin as their FMIC
http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=&product=FMINTST180

I also found an engineering report from Mishimoto themselves. If you look on page 5 you will see why I've decided not to go with their Z line FMIC.
Link> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46355977/MMINTUJEngineeringReport.pdf

 

[XuperXero]

Both good. I also like the Airtec. AS does the Airtec for about $600 US free shipping from UK.
On anther note Forge also put out some data about why they chose Tube & Fin as their FMIC
http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=&product=FMINTST180

I also found an engineering report from Mishimoto themselves. If you look on page 5 you will see why I've decided not to go with their Z line FMIC.
Link> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46355977/MMINTUJEngineeringReport.pdf

Forged said there testing showed that Tube and Fin was better, but gave no reason for it. Only that it was the result of their studied data. I'm curious on the specific reason...

Interestingly enough, Airtec is also Tube and Fin.

But ATP with their bar and plate records charge temp of 99 F (37 C) after 3 runs, where Airtec with their tube and fin records 39 C (102.2 F). Forge gave no data.

Just how much weight difference with bar and plate vs tube and fin? My understanding is that tube and fin is lighter?

Also is there any benefits between black and polish other than cosmetic purposes?

 

[MOFiST]

Forged said there testing showed that Tube and Fin was better, but gave no reason for it. Only that it was the result of their studied data. I'm curious on the specific reason...

Interestingly enough, Airtec is also Tube and Fin.

But ATP with their bar and plate records charge temp of 99 F (37 C) after 3 runs, where Airtec with their tube and fin records 39 C (102.2 F). Forge gave no data.

Just how much weight difference with bar and plate vs tube and fin? My understanding is that tube and fin is lighter?

Also is there any benefits between black and polish other than cosmetic purposes?

AS says Airtec is Bar & Plate > http://www.autospecialists.co.uk/AIRTEC-Stage-1-Fiesta-ST180-Eco-Boost-front-mount-Intercooler-upgrade-Product-1210.html

Forge are a well known company that make good gear. I believe them but ya it'd nice if they showed us proof.

As for the black paint it a bit of a chestnut. MCM Engineer says it's about emissivity. He says Black is better.
See> http://forums.mightycarmods.com/showthread.php?27456-Will-painting-my-intercooler-diminish-it-s-efficiency

[video=youtube_share;f1QL9veQaNg]http://youtu.be/f1QL9veQaNg[/video]

And then there's another engineer that says the opposite

[video=youtube_share;z_mmmXTbLP0]http://youtu.be/z_mmmXTbLP0[/video]

So what I wonder is if anodized Black would be the best of both worlds?

 

[Oscar Sanchez]

I want an IC that covers the whole lower grill so you can't see the end tanks by looking at the car

 

[HaveBlue83]

Put it this way....i have a mirage running over 300whp. I went with a presicion fmic (3.5" b&p core) and i refuse to use a tube & fin again. The bar & plate is like an ice chest on the front of your car. Weight? Pshhh its a small difference. Go big! Knock is gone and the thing pulls hard as hell. I am on 20psi/20deg of timing and about 40lbs min on my car......not really a street tune either lol.

Get a nice b&p core guys!

 

[Sourskittle]

A guy that sells horse poop will often tell people it works better than concrete for sidewalks...

A guy that sells Kia's will tell you its a better car than an S-class.

So... When someone selling a tube and fin cooler tells me they are selling it because its better than bar and plate, I just smile and move on. The same as i would do to a man selling horse poop at a Kia dealership.

 

[MOFiST]

A guy that sells horse poop will often tell people it works better than concrete for sidewalks...

A guy that sells Kia's will tell you its a better car than an S-class.

So... When someone selling a tube and fin cooler tells me they are selling it because its better than bar and plate, I just smile and move on. The same as i would do to a man selling horse poop at a Kia dealership.

lol. I know how condescending sales people can be as well.
However from what I've read tube and fin has some advantages. Lower pressure drop is one. Weight is another.
Both of these things are definitely pluses for this car.
Cheap ebay rubbish is one thing.
I'm talking about Mountune and Forge.
Remember these aren't some two bit fly by night companies we're talking about offering these tube & fin I/C's here.
I'm sure they could have chosen Bar & Plate but chose tube & fin for some reason.
Can anyone using a Mountune (or Forge) FMIC on their car comment on how it has been performing in real world driving?

 

[D1JL]

WE all know that an intercooler does not add horsepower but it does however keep the air charge temperatures more constant, thereby preventing horsepower drop.

Years back when I owned a '04 Mini Cooper S JCW we did some testing with different intercoolers.
We found that the "Tube & Fin" vs. "Bar & Plate" made little difference during dyno testing.
However during actual road testing we found that the "Bar & Plate" took a little longer to heat soak but also retained the heat much longer.
Where as the "Tube & Fin" did heat soak a little quicker but did dissipated the heat much faster.

I chose the montune intercooler not only because it is the "Tube & Fin type but also because montune is known to do extensive testing on all the products they sell.
They have been working with the small Ford engines for many years.

Since I don't normally run at WOT for long periods of time.
I do believe I would benefit more by having the heat dissipate faster.
But that is just my opinion.

Dave

 

[HaveBlue83]

id love to see someone do tests at stoplights, track days, and back to back to back WOT pulls. I have confidence in the Garrett B&P, and only the Garrett B&P

 

[D1JL]

I have confidence in the Garrett B&P, and only the Garrett B&P

All intercoolers have good and bad points.
I purchased the one I have based on the reasons and tests I have stated.
I see no further reason to do testing as I am happy with I have and I am NOT trying to prove anything or change your mind.

Based on your statement, nothing said here should sway your confidence.
Please purchase the one you prefer and do all the tests you would like.




Dave

 

[XuperXero]

AS says Airtec is Bar & Plate > http://www.autospecialists.co.uk/AIRTEC-Stage-1-Fiesta-ST180-Eco-Boost-front-mount-Intercooler-upgrade-Product-1210.html

Forge are a well known company that make good gear. I believe them but ya it'd nice if they showed us proof.

As for the black paint it a bit of a chestnut. MCM Engineer says it's about emissivity. He says Black is better.
See> http://forums.mightycarmods.com/showthread.php?27456-Will-painting-my-intercooler-diminish-it-s-efficiency

[video=youtube_share;f1QL9veQaNg]http://youtu.be/f1QL9veQaNg[/video]

And then there's another engineer that says the opposite

[video=youtube_share;z_mmmXTbLP0]http://youtu.be/z_mmmXTbLP0[/video]

So what I wonder is if anodized Black would be the best of both worlds?

Wow. That made my head hurt. So much contradictory opinions. I'd probably go for polished to keep "stock" look.

WE all know that an intercooler does not add horsepower but it does however keep the air charge temperatures more constant, thereby preventing horsepower drop.

Years back when I owned a '04 Mini Cooper S JCW we did some testing with different intercoolers.
We found that the "Tube & Fin" vs. "Bar & Plate" made little difference during dyno testing.
However during actual road testing we found that the "Bar & Plate" took a little longer to heat soak but also retained the heat much longer.
Where as the "Tube & Fin" did heat soak a little quicker but did dissipated the heat much faster.

I chose the montune intercooler not only because it is the "Tube & Fin type but also because montune is known to do extensive testing on all the products they sell.
They have been working with the small Ford engines for many years.

Since I don't normally run at WOT for long periods of time.
I do believe I would benefit more by having the heat dissipate faster.
But that is just my opinion.

Dave

That's interesting, good to know. Now I'm leaning toward tube and fin, I'd like the heat to dissipate faster as I only go for short burst runs on the street, no track days or such.

 

[Sekred]

My 2 cents worth.
Core quality is very important, not all cores are created equal, whether they are bar and plate or tube and fin.
End tank design, nearly as important as the core its self.
Bar and plate vs tube and fin. Little percentage in it regarding thermal efficiency and pressure drop, size for size. Bar and plate are thought to flow better internally because the tubes don't extrude into the end tanks. Tube and fin, better ambient air flow through the core because the tubes tend to be curved. See below.







Its better to increase the frontal area of the intercooler rather making it thicker if there is room. The thicker the core the harder for the ambient air to travel through the core and as the air travels through the outside of the core it gets hotter.
Same principle with a radiator, adding a third row of cooling tubes to a 2 row radiator won't increase is thermal efficiency by 50 percent because by the time the ambient air has reached the 3 row its a lot hotter.

Tube and fin heat soak faster, a lot faster but also cool quicker and are considerably lighter size for size. Tube and fin can be damaged easily from flying rocks, the tubes are very thin. I ran a tube and fin on a Subaru without a grill and split a couple of tube because of rocks thrown up by other vehicles.

Here is a link to a very good summary on intercoolers and what to look for. What this guy does not know is not worth knowing. The only problem is this article is so long that by the time you finish reading it, you have forgotten halve of it.
In a nut shell, its the core quality and end tank design that make a efficient intercooler.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

 

[Sekred]

Yet another intercooler available from PumaSpeed

Garrett Core

 

[Sourskittle]

That R-sport one looks really nice. Love the end tanks.

 

[MOFiST]

I wonder if any cutting is req'd? It's in front of the crash bar but not as fat as the mishi.