Playing the parts game to solve the clutch problems.

[PunkST]

It should at least last the lifespan of the clutch. Which is showing no signs of slippage or that itself is damaged.🤷 they penny pinched on materials used in the part. Just like they did elsewhere on the car ( blend doors and god awful paint prep anyone??)

Holding the clutch in for a short time at a stoplight is not extreme or excessive wear. I would consider that normal use. Especially if you take off from the light like an average person. If you launch the car at every light like a dingbat. Then it would be excessive. A good driver should be able to get 200k out of a clutch assembly if not more.

Id rather have the external slave than an internal that fails whenever it feels like. At least then its only 2 bolts and bleeding the system as opposed to taking half the car apart.

 

[MagnetiseST]

It should at least last the lifespan of the clutch. Which is showing no signs of slippage or that itself is damaged.🤷 they penny pinched on materials used in the part. Just like they did elsewhere on the car ( blend doors and god awful paint prep anyone??)

Why should it last the lifespan of the clutch? It is not a deteriorating item like a clutch disc or brake pads are, it is a "wear part", but not because it has a finite lifespan. Instead it lives a hard life in a hot environment, like connecting bearings, and piston rings. Those should "last the life of the engine" but often don't. I still fail to see where they pinched pennies on this part.

Holding the clutch in for a short time at a stoplight is not extreme or excessive wear. I would consider that normal use. Especially if you take off from the light like an average person. If you launch the car at every light like a dingbat. Then it would be excessive. A good driver should be able to get 200k out of a clutch assembly if not more.

Yes it is, you are causing the bearing to spin and contact a heat source. Transferring energy and heat into it for minutes at a time when its purpose is to be used for a few seconds at best. Driving the car hard ≠ excess wear, it can contribute to wear but it does not automatically mean everything is suddenly needing replacement at 1/4 the normal rate.

Id rather have the external slave than an internal that fails whenever it feels like. At least then its only 2 bolts and bleeding the system as opposed to taking half the car apart.

You still have to take half of it apart when the release bearing inevitably fails, because it will. You would then be trying to figure out a way to make that last longer and we'd be having the same discussion about that. You personally have a high mileage car, it is a service part like a brake caliper. It just needs replacing, I totally get that its a huge pain in the ass, but that is what it is. The only way around this is to buy an automatic unfortunately.


I am genuinely not trying to argue with you, I just feel like you are upset by something that is beyond your control. You are clearly mechanically inclined and capable of doing the job, you know it will fail sooner or later, so why delay? You can't afford to have the car down, but you can afford to deal with it when it just goes out on its own? I get it I really do, just because we have multiple cars doesn't mean any are spare or that we can have them down for weeks at a time.

 

[PunkST]

If the clutch assembly gets that hot during normal driving ( and a majority of it 2 lane country roads that go straight and are pretty damned flat) then it sounds like the whole dual mass flywheel/ self adjusting pressure plate and clutch disc arent up to the task. That or the car accident messed up the assembly, which im not ruling out as the cause of problem.

Im used to stuff being built to last and not to a dollar amount like things are now.
I also dont get how one day ill drive to work and have no issues, drive home it acts up. Then nothing for days at a time. The suddenly out of nowhere it acts up again. Im skeptical that replacing those parts is going to fix anything unless i literally rip everything out of the car from the brake/clutch reservoir down to the clutch.

Ive been through hell even trying to get this car back to where it was before the deer strike. Its becoming increasingly frustrating.

 

[Intuit]

Keep in mind that racers are frequently serviced. Racing designs in passenger vehicles aren't *always* the best decision.

External slave sees more airflow which should translate to much less heat. In addition it has the bell-housing it's attached to as potential heat sink. Since it doesn't require transmission removal to service, it is infinitely easier to service; in the unusual event that it requires it. Getting an external slave right merely requires a good bore, material that doesn't excessively expand/contract and quality silicon seals. Its mere simplicity is what makes it more reliable; manufacturers have been doing them for longer than the lot of us have been alive. Brake caliper pistons by comparison see *far* more abuse. If you have an external slave that is repeatedly failing, it is due to either insufficient design, poor seals and/or poor sealing surfaces. In addition, a long solid fork exiting the transmission, can absorb/transfer more heat over an internal design that uses no fork at all.

Bottom line, in theory, your external designs will prove more reliable and easier to service. Downside is more weigh, far more metal and lengthier final assembly times. It may also require more force to operate. In other words, less efficient.

The beauty of a man trans is you can pretty much drive them however the hell you want. Running stock power and proper fluid level, wear only occurs when you're slipping. Downside to man trans, they're vulnerable to user error; and bad habits will make them far less reliable than the automatic transmissions.

Outside of places like New York City, clutch disc material should last hundreds of thousands. If you're starting out and your engine sounds like ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRR.......... you're doing it wrong and are burning extra clutch material. Your engine should sound pretty much like an automatic when taking off from a dead stop.... rrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRR...........

 

[PunkST]

Been driving stick my whole life. So at least i can hopefully rule out driver error.

 

[Ford ST]

I understand what you are saying but some vehicles especially ones that make decent power are known to have short clutch life.

What is the clutch life of a GTI or WRX? The Fiesta ST is a lot closer to those cars then let's say a Ford escort or Honda civic from the 90s.

We are actually lucky Ford put a robust clutch in to handle the torque some manufacturers don't any power over stock and you start to slip. There's plenty of high performers cars out there that you're not even going to get 50,000 miles out of a clutch. Some of the extreme exotics won't even go 30,000 miles of course you can't compare Ferrari to a fiesta.

But when you think about it when it comes to torque the Fiesta ST with a tune has about three times the torque of a Ford escort.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I understand what you are saying but some vehicles especially ones that make decent power are known to have short clutch life.

What is the clutch life of a GTI or WRX? The Fiesta ST is a lot closer to those cars then let's say a Ford escort or Honda civic from the 90s.

We are actually lucky Ford put a robust clutch in to handle the torque some manufacturers don't any power over stock and you start to slip. There's plenty of high performers cars out there that you're not even going to get 50,000 miles out of a clutch. Some of the extreme exotics won't even go 30,000 miles of course you can't compare Ferrari to a fiesta.

But when you think about it when it comes to torque the Fiesta ST with a tune has about three times the torque of a Ford escort.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

You gotta pay to play* learned that one a long time ago!

 

[Intuit]

Doesn't matter if it's 88 or 197hp, wear only occurs during slip. If you're slipping with either all 88 or all 197hp, you need to be in a video game, not on the streets.

 

[PunkST]

I understand what you are saying but some vehicles especially ones that make decent power are known to have short clutch life.

What is the clutch life of a GTI or WRX? The Fiesta ST is a lot closer to those cars then let's say a Ford escort or Honda civic from the 90s.


Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

Honestly the clutch we did last year in the wifes gti still had a lot of meat on it. However it was ruined by the rear main seal puking all over it. Had that not happened might have gotten a few more years out of it before it was really worn.

 

[PunkST]

Doesn't matter if it's 88 or 197hp, wear only occurs during slip. If you're slipping with either all 88 or all 197hp, you need to be in a video game, not on the streets.

Again ive been driving manual transmission cars and trucks since i was 14. Im 35, damn near 36 years old. So please stop this.

 

[Intuit]

@PunkST - Psssst... I'm on your side...

 

[PunkST]

Forgot to mention gti is 11 years old and had 112k when we opened it up for repairs.

As for the pay to play mentality, all that ever devolves into is an elitist ego stroking pissing contest. Nothing gets solved. Seen that too many times.

 

[MagnetiseST]

@PunkST - Psssst... I'm on your side...

I don't think anyone is against them...

I just feel like we're searching for a solution that cannot be found (not without taking a loan out for more than the value of the car anyway lol).

• Converting to external slave is not possible as you'd have to re-design the bellhousing/fabricate a shift fork/find an appropriate slave & clutch kit that would support it.
• Cooling the fluid is not possible without an inline pump / radiator
• There is no alternative heavy duty part that has better quality / longevity
• Heat wrapping is unlikely to make any difference
• Driver error is driver error

Look at the 10th gen Si, they need a clutch replacement with any type of tune. Granted that isn't the same as a slave cylinder as they use an external slave (good job Honda), but its still something that is considered a "weak point". Its slightly easier to create a new clutch disc vs creating a new clutch slave cylinder. Like Intuit said: sometimes designs used in racing don't translate well to street driven vehicles, but obviously Ford thought the design was trouble free enough and would package better than an external slave. Perhaps there would be some other inherent weakness in the system if the slave was more robust. My Veloster N also has an internal concentric slave cylinder, and it costs $145! so I was happy with the $35 that the Fiesta slave costs.

 

[dhoffman]

Are we certain that the pedal return is due to the slave cylinder and not something else? I'm one of the many people having this issue. I'm having the clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder replaced as part of an LSD install. The last parts to me that could be the culprit could be the master cylinder or pedal assembly itself (curious if there's anything here that could be binding?). I have no actual data on this but it appears more prevalent when it's warm out, or I'm driving aggressively. I'm really hoping whatever was the issue for my pedal getting stuck down gets resolved here because it's really annoying.

 

[RubberDucky_82]

Are we certain that the pedal return is due to the slave cylinder and not something else? I'm one of the many people having this issue. I'm having the clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder replaced as part of an LSD install. The last parts to me that could be the culprit could be the master cylinder or pedal assembly itself (curious if there's anything here that could be binding?). I have no actual data on this but it appears more prevalent when it's warm out, or I'm driving aggressively. I'm really hoping whatever was the issue for my pedal getting stuck down gets resolved here because it's really annoying.

I had my slave replaced and haven't had any issues since. Others on here would say the same. Some have had the issue come back in time; I haven't yet. #fingerscrossed

 

[dhoffman]

I had my slave replaced and haven't had any issues since. Others on here would say the same. Some have had the issue come back in time; I haven't yet. #fingerscrossed

Hoping for the same! Honestly though the car is getting an S280 and LSD, this issue is lower on the list of things I'm curious about once I get my car back.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Hoping for the same! Honestly though the car is getting an S280 and LSD, this issue is lower on the list of things I'm curious about once I get my car back.

If you're installing an LSD, change the clutch and slave while you're there. Peace of mind is priceless.

Edit: nvm I just read your other post.

 

[PunkST]

Either way hopefully i can solve this by years end. Car is less than a grand from being paid off. And its got timing due along with solving this mess.

 

[felopr]

So i think this issue is two separate ones mixing together.

1. Heat. It gets really damn hot on the backside of the engine. Which is where our brake master/clutch master fluid container is. Plastic doesnt like heat, and hot brake fluid will burn out rubber seals that arent up the task.
2. Contamination from braking and water absorption getting into the system.



So what if we were to swap in the brake reservoir for an automatic transmission fiesta. And run a separate reservoir for the clutch master. ( it would be a bit involved yes, and sourcing parts might be tricky) using the atx resi would keep a potential leak from occuring when we separate the systems.

For solving heat, maybe a bespoke heat shield? Or gold taping the hell out of the reservoirs and lines under the hood.

Past that, idk maybe venting the hood?

Trying to come up with solutions to keep the problem gone for good.

Do a flush of your brakes and clutch with good brake fluid that can take temperature, something like motul rbf660 or redline rl-600 and the #1 thing you bring up it goes out the window. I live in a hotter climate than you and i dont have no heat issues like you are describing.
#2 is inevitable because brake fluids like to absorb water but with, again, a good brake fluid, is not as prone to absorb water as bad as the cheap stuff

 

[PunkST]

Do a flush of your brakes and clutch with good brake fluid that can take temperature, something like motul rbf660 or redline rl-600 and the #1 thing you bring up it goes out the window. I live in a hotter climate than you and i dont have no heat issues like you are describing.
#2 is inevitable because brake fluids like to absorb water but with, again, a good brake fluid, is not as prone to absorb water as bad as the cheap stuff

Ive topped it off with factory spec dot 4. It does need a good flush. Idk how a lot of those aftermarket fluids handle freezing temps and snow so ive never tried any.