Building an engine to last

[daloonie]

Soooo this happened:

This block was a reworked block with stronger mahle liners. According to the engine builder. But that didn't help when the headgasket broke and caused a crack in the liner of cylinder 4.

Anyways. I'm sick of replacing engines now and thinking of getting a sleeved block and probably forged internals. But I'm looking for advice here. Been looking at this setup: https://www.sbdmotorsport.co.uk/ENG-BLK-ECO1.6-HD-01K-1-6l-ecoboost-heavy-duty-block-conversion.html
But seeing as that is quite expensive I've also been looking at Pumaspeed's offerings and maybe getting their sleeves and maybe closed deck: https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Pumaspeed-Ductile-Sleeve-Liners_18033.jsp
Maybe pairing them with some pistons and maybe some connecting rods. This is where I'm really lost as there are many offerings at very different prize points. Anybody here that could offer any advice? Not looking for maximum power, but running around 250-280whp reliably at least.

A definate for me though is ARP headstuds by now and maybe the Athena MLS headgasket.

I'm running an X47R as my daily and don't beat on it too hard, but long pulls on the highway has not been uncommon.
I have a 15C lower thermostat, R-Sport Pro 400 intercooler.

 

[The_Ryan]

How many engines have you gone through? Who is your tuner? Under what conditions did these engines blow? I'd hate to see you spend extra money on something that's not the source of the problem.

 

[gtx3076]

In my experience, nothing is more reliable as stock on a safe tune. I've seen so many motor build threads that drag on forever with maintenance and repairs, most them wanted something more reliable than stock. So in my opinion you chalk up the cost as the fee for having fun, or you dial it back if you can't afford it.

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[daloonie]

This is now my third. Stock and 2 refurbished.
First one the cylinders warped due to overheating and the head gasket gave out. Why I changed to lower temperature thermostat.
Second one was injector failure which i changed out all 4 for the 3rd engine. In which it looks like poor head gasket from the builder.
OTS x47r tune.

A built long block without ancillaries cost the same as new stock from Ford around here. Located in Denmark.

 

[XR650R]

Mountune sells built engines.

 

[daloonie]

Mountune sells built engines.

I know, but not in europe. Which means I can add a price point of 1.5 for tax and import fees and then add freight on top of that. But yes the mrx block does indeed look sweet.
I asked mountune uk and they specifically said to import myself.

 

[The_Ryan]

This is now my third. Stock and 2 refurbished.
First one the cylinders warped due to overheating and the head gasket gave out. Why I changed to lower temperature thermostat.
Second one was injector failure which i changed out all 4 for the 3rd engine. In which it looks like poor head gasket from the builder.
OTS x47r tune.

A built long block without ancillaries cost the same as new stock from Ford around here. Located in Denmark.

If I were in your position, I'd certainly consider looking at the tune/fuel quality to reduce the chance of blowing another engine. The stock engine is known to be pretty strong. The fact that you've blown 3 engines now really alludes to something else possibly being the problem.

Also, that burn at the start of the crack in your cylinder 4 picture looks like a large knock event happened there (it's exactly where knock would occur). Just another piece of evidence that might suggest your tune or fuel quality is killing your engines.

 

[daloonie]

I doubt it's my fuel quality, but the tune could very well be the culprit. But instead of betting on it will hold this time with a new tune only, I'd rather have the piece og mind to go at least stronger cylinder liners.
If I need to go further than that I have no idea.

 

[The_Ryan]

I doubt it's my fuel quality, but the tune could very well be the culprit. But instead of betting on it will hold this time with a new tune only, I'd rather have the piece og mind to go at least stronger cylinder liners.
If I need to go further than that I have no idea.

I understand where you're coming from, especially if the price of a built block isn't much more than a factory one. From my point of view it's like hammering a nail into a wall. If you swing that hammer hard and miss, you're going to break the wall.

But it doesn't matter if you make that wall out of brick. If you swing that hammer like you're Mark McGuire, you're still going to break the wall. So why go through the trouble of spending extra cash and extra money on a brick wall if all you likely need to do is just swing that hammer with a little less power. (hopefully that makes sense LOL)

Maybe have a well known tuner review your tune to see if they can see any obvious problems with it? If they spot something, then you can get a new tune and not have to worry as much about the strength of your engine thus having a more confidence picking another engine. I don't mean to lecture you and I'm not saying "buy stock". I'm just trying to give you some more ideas to think about to help you picking any good engine. Especially since there aren't many options.

 

[daloonie]

I perfectly understand and it makes very good sense. The plan for me is to get it properly tuned this time around and I have found a reputable tuner around here (they are scarce) that I hope will take on the challenge.
I will take your advice and see if anyone can make sense of my engine breaking tune. Hopefully point out what is wrong or if I'm just very unlucky with my engines.

 

[gtx3076]

I agree with those that suggest having your tunes looked over.

When I had the motor built on my MS3 I had every intention on making WELL below the limits of the new motor. I was on my 3rd motor by the time I gave up on it, the 1st build spun a rod on the builder, the 2nd build spun a rod on me, and the 3rd build spun a rod on me as well. All on very safe starter tunes from a reputable tuner. In my case I could point to the builder, he closed up his business soon after.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

How long did these engines last?

 

[daloonie]

80.000miles
6.000miles
And only 1300miles, died during break in.

 

[SteveS]

No matter how strong you build an engine, lean air-fuel ratios can kill it. Lean fuel ratios can be caused by many things, but it's something your tune may have been causing. Preignition, detonation, knock (different terms for the same thing) can also destroy even the strongest built engine. Fuel octane, timing, and heat can cause this. With the exception of the fuel octane, these are also controlled by the tune.

The point is, no matter how well built an engine is, you can destroy it in seconds if you run it wrong. The best tune is not the one that reaches the highest peak horsepower on the dyno. It's the one which reaches good power levels while maintaining the engine in a safe condition. And in a daily driver that means longevity. There's a reason why top fuel dragster engines have to be completely rebuilt after every quarter mile or eighth mile run. They are tuned for maximum horsepower with minimal longevity.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Soooo this happened:

This block was a reworked block with stronger mahle liners. According to the engine builder. But that didn't help when the headgasket broke and caused a crack in the liner of cylinder 4.

Anyways. I'm sick of replacing engines now and thinking of getting a sleeved block and probably forged internals. But I'm looking for advice here. Been looking at this setup: https://www.sbdmotorsport.co.uk/ENG-BLK-ECO1.6-HD-01K-1-6l-ecoboost-heavy-duty-block-conversion.html
But seeing as that is quite expensive I've also been looking at Pumaspeed's offerings and maybe getting their sleeves and maybe closed deck: https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Pumaspeed-Ductile-Sleeve-Liners_18033.jsp
Maybe pairing them with some pistons and maybe some connecting rods. This is where I'm really lost as there are many offerings at very different prize points. Anybody here that could offer any advice? Not looking for maximum power, but running around 250-280whp reliably at least.

A definate for me though is ARP headstuds by now and maybe the Athena MLS headgasket.

I'm running an X47R as my daily and don't beat on it too hard, but long pulls on the highway has not been uncommon.
I have a 15C lower thermostat, R-Sport Pro 400 intercooler.

I mean if your target is 250-280 HP then it’s hard to not recommend a stock 2.0 EcoBoost. I assume you’ve had your engine out more than once, but if you want that level of power and you want OE reliability, Ford literally makes an engine with that output range.

That said I’m not sure if they tax by displacement in your country or if that’s a concern, I have to imagine that getting that motor to run should be relatively easy especially considering that you’ve already dove pretty deep into modifications with the 1.6.

The only potential downside I could see would be the intake valve coking issue that the 2.0 sees exponentially moreso than the 1.6, but honestly for what you are asking for Ecoboost 2.0 on a factory tune, it won’t get much more reliable than that.

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[dhoffman]

250-280whp is regularly done on a 1.6L stock block, and fairly reliably. I really don't think there is anything too exotic that you'd need to install to hit those goals. As others have mentioned, the causes of failures were mostly not due to shortcomings on the engines side but rather the tune. Now that the cooling has been addressed, personally I'd just throw a stock engine in there.

 

[The_Ryan]

I mean if your target is 250-280 HP then it’s hard to not recommend a stock 2.0 EcoBoost. I assume you’ve had your engine out more than once, but if you want that level of power and you want OE reliability, Ford literally makes an engine with that output range.

That said I’m not sure if they tax by displacement in your country or if that’s a concern, I have to imagine that getting that motor to run should be relatively easy especially considering that you’ve already dove pretty deep into modifications with the 1.6.

The only potential downside I could see would be the intake valve coking issue that the 2.0 sees exponentially moreso than the 1.6, but honestly for what you are asking for Ecoboost 2.0 on a factory tune, it won’t get much more reliable than that.

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In addition to what @dhoffman said, the only thing that the 1.6 and 2.0 have in common are spark plugs. Nothing about them is the same. Also they're vastly more prone to damage than the 1.6. Fitting one in a Fiesta would not be an easy task. Lots of customer work involved. Unless you're telling him to just get a Focus?

 

[CSM]

250-280whp is regularly done on a 1.6L stock block, and fairly reliably. I really don't think there is anything too exotic that you'd need to install to hit those goals. As others have mentioned, the causes of failures were mostly not due to shortcomings on the engines side but rather the tune. Now that the cooling has been addressed, personally I'd just throw a stock engine in there.

This - I've been about 285whp on E30 for 20k miles or so now, motor has 90k total. Regularly beat on it, no major issues (yet)

 

[M-Sport fan]

In addition to what @dhoffman said, the only thing that the 1.6 and 2.0 have in common are spark plugs. Nothing about them is the same. Also they're vastly more prone to damage than the 1.6. Fitting one in a Fiesta would not be an easy task. Lots of customer work involved. Unless you're telling him to just get a Focus?

Yes, as HOW would you even be able to do the requisite 2.0 ECM swap and encode/write the car's serial number into it, in order to keep it street legal, even over in Europe where they sometimes have even stricter yet plug-in and visual inspections than here??

 

[shouldbeasy]

my $0.02 is why are you stuck with a local tuner? Can't you do remote / datalogs? Could open up a variety of options for your tuning needs... and to me, that is where I would look for the root cause.