Turbo Technics S280

[MagnetiseST]

The TT WGA was fine for 26 psi, which was as high as we went on 93. It seems like people are having varied results with this piece.

26 to redline? or 26 peak? I've maxed out the map sensor with the TT WGA

 

[jayrod1980]

For the guys running straight 93, did you need an upgraded WGA? I’m moving from Michigan in a month where E is plentiful. I don’t see myself running anything but 91/93 for some time.


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Adam from Tune Plus recommends upgraded wastegate unequivocally. I have his custom Turbosmart wastegate on my stock snail for the last 4 years and it’s been awesome.

 

[Muldoon]

26 to redline? or 26 peak? I've maxed out the map sensor with the TT WGA

26 peak, but it held high 25’s to redline. I’m glad your TT unit worked for you, unfortunately I didn’t have the same result when pushing past ~26psi while tuning for e30.

I don’t want to speak for Adam, but he explained that after tuning a bunch of these now, he will be recommending everybody go with a turbosmart wga.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Adam from Tune Plus recommends upgraded wastegate unequivocally. I have his custom Turbosmart wastegate on my stock snail for the last 4 years and it’s been awesome.

I had a very lengthy discussion about the actuators on both the S280 and stock turbos. It seems to me that some tuners are just more comfortable using their own products or recommendations when tuning. The stock actuator is designed in such a way to keep it efficient, hopefully TT put the same development into the S280 one but without asking them we wont know.

Anyway I have had no issue getting it to hold boost or otherwise. I'm not going to change it unless I absolutely have to.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Adam from Tune Plus recommends upgraded wastegate unequivocally. I have his custom Turbosmart wastegate on my stock snail for the last 4 years and it’s been awesome.

Is it possible for this be installed with the factory snail still in the car?

 

[Dpro]

Is it possible for this be installed with the factory snail still in the car?

I think he said that in his post that you quoted.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I think he said that in his post that you quoted.

I was asking about the actual installation of the TS WGA, (and if it required the turbo to be dropped out of the car to be installed) not whether or not it would work with the factory hairdryer or not.

 

[Dpro]

I was asking about the actual installation of the TS WGA, (and if it required the turbo to be dropped out of the car to be installed) not whether or not it would work with the factory hairdryer or not.

lol ya I read it fast. One could try and might be able to. I could see how it would be a pain though. Of course if he has it on his stock turbo than most likely he did it in the car. Seems like a lot of work to remove the turbo just to install a different waste gate. I personally would not do that. Turbo comes out? Different Turbo goes in.

 

[jayrod1980]

Is it possible for this be installed with the factory snail still in the car?

Yes, I’ve never removed the turbo. Still had to take off that dang heat shield though!

 

[MagnetiseST]

Is it possible for this be installed with the factory snail still in the car?

Yes it can be, its not hard. However before you consider it please read this snippet from my conversation with my tuner:

However, another important point to bring up is that (and I don’t know if this is true with the s280) the actuator springs that are installed from the factory are REALLY well thought out. On the stock turbo, the spring in the wastegate is designed to become overpowered at high RPM. Meaning, the exhaust manifold pressure overpowers the spring and the wastegate starts to open, even if you are at 100% duty cycle. Why do they do this? I am glad I asked =] Turbo speed. At 21lb/min and 14-15 psi on the stock turbo (where the turbo is at about 90% duty cycle at 6500 rpm), the turbo speed is reaching its speed limit at approx. 170k rpm (yes that’s 170,000rpm). If you try to make more boost, you will overspeed the turbo and you are more likely to damage the turbo, plus, the turbo is moving farther and farther out of its efficiency range anyways (its at about 65% and drops off heavy with any more flow or boost, peak efficiency is about 72%). On the other side of that, its also designed to make it harder for the turbo to surge by limiting the amount of peak boost you can run in low RPMS (low RPMs = low flow. Low flow + high pressure = surge).

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes it can be, its not hard. However before you consider it please read this snippet from my conversation with my tuner:

THANKS for that, as yes, now I will not consider/bother with that idea any more.

Could that above be what I am feeling when I take 1st and 2nd up to, and into, the (factory setting) limiter?
It feels like a big, single, 'dump of the boost', more so than the fuel/spark cut 'stutter' of all of the other limiters I've had on naturally aspirated cars.

Does the above WG 'action' happen right before, or simultaneously with whatever our rev limiter does?

 

[MagnetiseST]

THANKS for that, as yes, now I will not consider/bother with that idea any more.

Could that above be what I am feeling when I take 1st and 2nd up to, and into, the (factory setting) limiter?
It feels like a big, single, 'dump of the boost', more so than the fuel/spark cut 'stutter' of all of the other limiters I've had on naturally aspirated cars.

Does the above WG 'action' happen right before, or simultaneously with whatever our rev limiter does?

the WG is vacuum actuated, in our case its connected to a computer controlled solenoid which regulates how much pressure / vacuum it sees in order to operate. Technically you could configure the computer to keep it closed at all times, but the point that was being made was even if it was commanded closed at all times, the spring inside of it is only so strong and will be forced open by the pressure from the exhaust.

What you are feeling above ~5500 rpm is the turbo dropping far out of its efficiency range, and also if you are on a factory tune: the "overboost" feature runs out of time after 15 seconds, and drops the maximum boost down.

 

[jayrod1980]

The wastegate actuator is controlled by the computer though... the tune. Since it’s electronically controlled, the turbosmart one is just to be more stout and consistent. It’s still all in the tuning whether you overspin the turbo IMO.

 

[wetwea33]

The wastegate actuator is controlled by the computer though... the tune. Since it’s electronically controlled, the turbosmart one is just to be more stout and consistent. It’s still all in the tuning whether you overspin the turbo IMO.

This. I would never use the included wga with an aftermarket turbo, they ussually don't preform well. They are both going to be electronically controlled by the solonoid. The upgraded actuator will just be able sustain boost better up top.

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[jayrod1980]

This. I would never use the included wga with an aftermarket turbo, they ussually don't preform well. They are both going to be electronically controlled by the solonoid. The upgraded actuator will just be able sustain boost better up top.

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Probably why Adam recommends it with the S280. It may be just to put more coin in his pocket, but his custom sprung TS actuators are pretty nice. Even the one for the stock snail made a difference in building and peak boost. It’s extremely consistent. The guy likes tuning custom actuators. I will spent the extra $150 and get the Turbosmart actuator when I buy the kit.

 

[jayrod1980]

Probably why Adam recommends it with the S280. It may be just to put more coin in his pocket, but his custom sprung TS actuators are pretty nice. Even the one for the stock snail made a difference in building and peak boost. It’s extremely consistent. The guy likes tuning custom actuators. I will spent the extra $150 and get the Turbosmart actuator when I buy the kit.

Oh and if you guys haven’t caught my gaffes with the names of parts or whatever, I’m a totally novice to wrenching on anything. I never changed oil on a car prior to the Fiesta. As a testament to the sometimes surly Adam Brunson, the guy literally talked me through the Turbosmart actuator install over the phone like 4 years ago. I know he’s grown a lot since then in the business, but he’s a good dude.

There’s a lot of other greats in our community too. Ron at Whoosh will often answer my questions over email at 11pm, etc. another reason I love this car community. The many of the people we buy all these parts from are pretty invested in their craft.

 

[MagnetiseST]

You guys seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make about the actuators, its not all about power.

Yes they are technically computer controlled, but not really, only in terms of the vacuum reference. When you install a higher spring rate, it takes more to overcome it. So even being set at full open all the time it will not open until the minimum spring rating (14psi or whatever), this can help keep the duty cycle down but it isn't what the turbo was designed for. Can you tune for it? yes, but remember that normally there is some R&D put into the spring rate, maybe more on some than others. A true computer controlled wastegate is like what VW uses, an E-gate, this would be the end all solution because you can tell it what to do whenever you want but it would require the ECU to be set up to recognize it and how to use it.

Making blanket statements like "I would never use the included wga with an aftermarket turbo, they usually don't preform well" is anecdotal to your experiences and does not usually speak for the well thought out turbo options. This isn't an ebay turbo, and its not 15 y/o technology. I have no issues with the TT wastegate, it does exactly what we want it to do and I don't have any weird boost oscillation. Like I said, some tuners like to tune with their parts because it takes out a variable. They don't have to wonder how the part performs and can use similar logic across the board for similar upgrades, alternatively they think their parts are superior and therefore better because it makes more power. In reality you sacrifice something for that power and that could be longevity, fuel constraints, timing, etc.

In the end its personal preference, if the stock gate ever failed I'd likely upgrade it. But I don't see the point when not gunning for records or power goals.

 

[Se7eN]

Is there anything out there that will do 300 on stock fuel? Does the MRX make more or less than the S280?

a friend made 289 on an MRX, but that car is like a factory feak. Does not knock and was still running stock plugs. GTX2860 on stock fueling same dyno made 294 but again had a lot of knock due to heat so had to get a lighter tune.

 

[Hypergram]

Been saving up for a new S280, but today saw a used X47R go up for sale at $800, half the price of a new S280. Been on the road for a bit over a year, that's all I know at the moment on it. Finances are obviously a big deal so saving that money is important to me. What I am worried about is installing a used turbo, plus the fact that it's a hybrid and "can" increase mechanical wear on the other components compared to something that spools later. Shooting for 300hp on stock fuel and dp. Any thoughts?

 

[Se7eN]

Been saving up for a new S280, but today saw a used X47R go up for sale at $800, half the price of a new S280. Been on the road for a bit over a year, that's all I know at the moment on it. Finances are obviously a big deal so saving that money is important to me. What I am worried about is installing a used turbo, plus the fact that it's a hybrid and "can" increase mechanical wear on the other components compared to something that spools later. Shooting for 300hp on stock fuel and dp. Any thoughts?

X47R won't get near that number, and it's more heat and stress