Street/Track Brake Setup

[CANADAFIST]

Hi everyone,

I have a 2015 FIST, and recently took it to a lapping day. Traction and stability control were off. The brakes faded very quickly. I'm running stock everything.

This is my commuter car, so I have no interest in a super loud, squeaky, track set up. I just want to be able to do a lapping day with a safe brake set up that doesn't fade after a few laps.

Obviously, fluid has to be done. But for those that do the occasional lapping day (and drive aggressively at those days), what are your setups, or what do you think is needed?
- I assume pads will be needed. Any suggestions on street/track setups? Again, I don't want something that squeaks on the street. This is my commuter car, and I drive it all year (including super cold Canada winter days). Or are stock pads ok, and this is really just a fluid issue?
- Are stock rotors decent? I've read they're ok, and they're cheap. Not sure what you guys think.
- Stainless brake lines? I've always been under the impression that stainless brake lines are for people that want to add one more line of mods to their show car list. Does anyone think the stock lines are bad?
- I saw brake cooling deflectors on some aftermarket site. I'm assuming these are for people with far more aggressive set ups than I have (stock).

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated. I did some general searching on here, but didn't find much about a basic lapping day setup.

 

[zeddzik]

Went through a whole new set of stock front brake pads and rotors the first time I tracked my car as well as burnt the paint off part of my calipers, make sure you get some new pads and swap out your fluid before you go to your next track event. Being also in a colder climate I run two separate sets of pads for street and the track. Our brakes produce a lot of heat due to the lack of airflow and torque vectoring so any setup that will work okay on the street will have to be a compromise especially since the have to work well in the winter. The track pads I use are Carbotec's xp8 pad they are a bit pricey but well worth it in my opinion, the initial bite is amazing and they hold throughout hard breaking, they also hold up to high heat as well and with Motul rbf600 fluid I barely notice any fade. One downside is that they are a bit harsh on the rotors and I recommend getting a set of separate stock rotors for the track as well. Although very noisy the xp8's can be used on the street as well so if you don't have time or to lazy to take them off after the event its no big deal to leave them on for a day or two. This kind of setup will probably save you money as well because track only pads will last a lot longer than a street pad on track so you won't need to replace them as often as a compromise track/street pad.

 

[zeddzik]

Regarding stainless brake lines, they are more for feel than anything, I run my normal stock lines and braking force is not an issue but with stainless lines you will feel less fade because the lines won't be expanding as much when the fluid is hot.

Brake cooling deflectors are not a bad choice, the stock brakes produce plenty of heat on track and definitely need to be cooled mine (read almost 800 degrees and were smoking after my last session one time). The deflectors will slightly improve brake cooling but a ducting setup (like this: https://www.fiestast.net/threads/my-brake-ducts-build.2251/ ) will be a lot more cost effective and produce way better results.

But before any of that make pads and fluid a priority.

Also: make sure to bleed the burnt up fluid out of the pistons after every track event.

 

[CANADAFIST]

Thanks for your suggestions. Interesting point on the brake lines. I'll keep an open mind.

I'm not interested in any set up that requires changing. I know this means I'll have a compromised set up, but I'm not looking to set lap records. Just want to go out, and have fun, and not have my brakes die 5 minutes into the first session.

This car is 99% commuter, and I take it to any track days at slower, tighter tracks. I have another car for weekend/sporty/fast tracks. So, although I'm sure a ducting set up would be ideal, that seems like it would be for after fluid/pads/rotors/lines/stickier tires/more power/ suspension/motor mounts/etc.

 

[CANADAFIST]

It looks like Hawk makes a good product. Does anyone have perspective on whether HPS/HP+ are sufficient for the occasional track day, or would the street/race pads be needed? Does anyone own the street/race pads, and do the squeal like a pig?

 

[zeddzik]

Don't own them but I was looking at them and it looks like they will be loud at cold temperatures and they will fade after a while on track. I think your best bet is to just keep the stock pads but make sure they aren't the pads that come with the all season tires like mine did. I'll shoot you the link to them.

 

[zeddzik]

I do run the HPS on my front though and they have been very nice, no noise and low dust but not sure how they would hold up on the track. It might be worth a try to grab the HPS and see how they handle the higher temps.

 

[CANADAFIST]

Thanks zeddzik.

 

[zeddzik]

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/oem-brake-pads.14425/ here's a thread about the oem pads. If you need any help putting those or the HPS pads on or anything shoot me a message, I've done it plenty of times and you save a lot of cash doing it yourself. Also where do you track your car in Ontario? I've been looking for places nearby to take my car other than my two favorites in Michigan.

 

[CANADAFIST]

Alright, so stock pads are really really good. No need to waste money on aftermarket. That's a bit concerning, because if pads aren't the problem, then.... Hopefully it's mostly the fluid

I take this car to Cayuga, but it's a pretty shitty track. If you.come this far, go to mosport (Canadian tire motors port Park) it's a stellar track. It was the f1 track for the Canadian grand prix up until 79, when it was deemed too fast and dangerous. Lots of off camber, blind corners, and it's fast. But once you get it, it's just so much fun. My old car got up to 235 km/h on the back straight.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

Fade is simply a heat issue with our cars. If you need a streetable pad, OEM motorcrafts are as good as it gets. I had hawk hps 5.0s up front and they did take slightly longer to fade and provided better modulation, but initial bite was sacrificed. ebc yellows are good roo, but for the price, initial bite, feel and stopping power its hard to beat oem.

I run drilled/slotted rotors and notice they take less time to cool down between runs, but during driving I notice no difference.

Brake ducts would actually benefit any track set up. Since we are trying to battle heat, they help keep brakes cooler and cool down faster.

The more you track your car the more you'll have to be comfortable changing out rotors often, dealing with squeaky/don't work when cold brake pads, needing new tires often, etc. My track strategy on a different platform was to run cheap (oem blank) brake rotors and carbotech pads. You will wear through rotors too quickly to use anything fancy.

Any track set up will be a compromise for street use and vice versa. That's why I stick to cone and autocross events since there's less wear and tear and a more streetable set-up works well.

 

[green_henry]

I swapped the OEM pads for Carbotech 1521s in front to reduce dust and initial bite -- they were a bit too grabby for my taste. For the street the 1521s are great, but I tracked them and was disappointed (quite a bit of fade on my second 20-minute session).

I have read very positive reviews of the Winmax W3 compound which Mountune sells as their track pads; unfortunately, they are on backorder, so it will be a while before I can post a review.

Meanwhile, I still have the OEM rears. No issues there.

 

[maestromaestro]

I second the XP8s. I also recommend Castrol SRF. Yes, expensive, but well worth it. As far as squealing goes, I completely mitigated it by using this red goop on the back side of the pads - incidentally, that’s where the squealing comes - from the pistons, not the pad/rotor. The fade is from heat - so you need better pads, better fluid, better rotors.

The brake lines are fine - these are really secondary contributors to the issue, as are brake cooling ducts/deflectors. I have the braided lines, and I have Boomba deflectors, too - but, I’d be hard pressed to define their contributions. Since you don’t want to mess with ducts,

I’d say - pads and fluid first, rotors second, and maybe remove stuff from the car when you’re on the track (e.g., spare tire, etc.). Lighter wheels would help as well.

 

[zeddzik]

I second the XP8s. I also recommend Castrol SRF. Yes, expensive, but well worth it. As far as squealing goes, I completely mitigated it by using this red goop on the back side of the pads - incidentally, that’s where the squealing comes - from the pistons, not the pad/rotor. The fade is from heat - so you need better pads, better fluid, better rotors.

The brake lines are fine - these are really secondary contributors to the issue, as are brake cooling ducts/deflectors. I have the braided lines, and I have Boomba deflectors, too - but, I’d be hard pressed to define their contributions. Since you don’t want to mess with ducts,

I’d say - pads and fluid first, rotors second, and maybe remove stuff from the car when you’re on the track (e.g., spare tire, etc.). Lighter wheels would help as well.

Could you go into further detail on how you mitigated the squealing on your xp8s? I only use them on track but they squeak so much even when just driving slowly around the paddock lol

 

[CANADAFIST]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm interested to hear if the track pads can be quiet with shims/grease. I had carbotech stuff on my old car, but had two sets of pads. The track pads were... not quiet.

As of now, the tentative plan is stock pads, upgraded rotors, upgraded lines, better fluid, and those stupid deflector things. Basically, everything I can do to cool the brakes without having to cut anything or swap pads back and forth.

 

[maestromaestro]

Could you go into further detail on how you mitigated the squealing on your xp8s? I only use them on track but they squeak so much even when just driving slowly around the paddock lol

https://images.app.goo.gl/MBpJmHuNqHJSQf5e6

That's all you need. Put in on, smear, let dry overnight, reinstall. Voila! Magic.

 

[zeddzik]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm interested to hear if the track pads can be quiet with shims/grease. I had carbotech stuff on my old car, but had two sets of pads. The track pads were... not quiet.

As of now, the tentative plan is stock pads, upgraded rotors, upgraded lines, better fluid, and those stupid deflector things. Basically, everything I can do to cool the brakes without having to cut anything or swap pads back and forth.

Sounds like a great plan! But if the squeaking can be solved by using something like this: https://www.crcindustries.com/products/disc-brake-quiet-4-fl-oz-05016.html you should definitely use the xp8s on track its a much better experience as you wont have to worry about overdoing it with the stock ones.

 

[zeddzik]

https://images.app.goo.gl/MBpJmHuNqHJSQf5e6

That's all you need. Put in on, smear, let dry overnight, reinstall. Voila! Magic.

Oh awesome thats what I was thinking it was haha

 

[maestromaestro]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm interested to hear if the track pads can be quiet with shims/grease. I had carbotech stuff on my old car, but had two sets of pads. The track pads were... not quiet.

As of now, the tentative plan is stock pads, upgraded rotors, upgraded lines, better fluid, and those stupid deflector things. Basically, everything I can do to cool the brakes without having to cut anything or swap pads back and forth.

I don't swap the XP8s - use them on the street and the track.

 

[PunkST]

Im running ebc redstuff pads year round in wisconsin. More than likely the pad compound wasnt up to snuff ( factory pads for the all season tires are really bad. The summer pads are better. Worse still ford just slapped whatever for pads in the cars that they had.) Ive had literally zero issues with fade, or inability to stop during normal driving and tracking the car. That said i hardly touch the brakes when racing if possible. So my driving style may vary. I do need to bleed them this next spring though.