Dizzy Tuning Intake Tests

[A7xogg]

I can measure the stock elbow when I get home. What do you want to see?
I'm not pulling the whoosh one back out to measure

If the diameter of the stock turbo elbow matches the stock turbo compressor inlet

 

[LaserWhisperer]

Haha, looks like I'm not measuring anything......
Maybe someone has a spare stock turbo laying around?

 

[redmoe]

For reference the x47 inlet is 43mm and the compressor wheel is stated as 43mm at the tips. The stock wheel is 35.4 mm at the tips so I doubt the stock inlet is greater than 38mm.

 

[XanRules]

Perfect - we're getting to the crux of what I'm curious about, which is if the factory elbow actually is a restriction on the stock turbo. It appears that the answer is "not really" minus the sharper bend in the plastic factory inlet vs Ron's.

 

[M-Sport fan]

If you see the recent FB discussions, replacing that hot side J pipe is all about removing the stupid resonator, the piping size is still the same and I have no plans on going with bigger piping, just want that restriction out...

Aren't most of the just metal (stainless steel) elbow, and the rest silicone hose, hot side charge setups (Mountune, Whoosh, and the like) the same exact size (internal diameter) as the factory baffled setup?

 

[danbfree]

Aren't most of the just metal (stainless steel) elbow, and the rest silicone hose, hot side charge setups (Mountune, Whoosh, and the like) the same exact size (internal diameter) as the factory baffled setup?

Good point, it's just come up for discussion on other threads and on the FB group... they are mostly all the same but there are the Mishimoto ones (including some being sold without hoses and clamps very cheaply) that they and their complete hot/cold pipe set that is indeed the larger 2.5" size so you have to use a 2.5" to 1.5" coupler if you buy just their J pipe (complete set for ~$150, bare pipe for less than $30 on eBay).... Whoosh, Mountune, all the others as far as I know are the same 1.5" size but are obviously smoother and without the resonator.

 

[danbfree]

If the diameter of the stock turbo elbow matches the stock turbo compressor inlet

Haha, looks like I'm not measuring anything......
Maybe someone has a spare stock turbo laying around?

For reference the x47 inlet is 43mm and the compressor wheel is stated as 43mm at the tips. The stock wheel is 35.4 mm at the tips so I doubt the stock inlet is greater than 38mm.

Perfect - we're getting to the crux of what I'm curious about, which is if the factory elbow actually is a restriction on the stock turbo. It appears that the answer is "not really" minus the sharper bend in the plastic factory inlet vs Ron's.

Yep, the stock turbo elbow is 38 mm and Ron's is 43 mm, so that makes Ron's piece ideal for hybrids, wouldn't do anything for a stock turbo...

Back on topic, out of all the intakes, 2 make any real HP (a few others at least make a little torque) with stock exhaust, but then there are some tuners on the FB groups that insist exhaust can add power on a stock turbo too... What sucks is that it still boils down to the stock turbo: Easy to make additional torque through tuning and mods (when it already has plenty) but nearly impossible to get past 225 whp even with FBO's and e30 tunes... Seems like all these intake/exhaust mods just aren't worth it until you go turbo upgrade.

 

[redmoe]

That’s pretty much the common consensus. There is a little gain but not worth the price of entry (if you are only looking for performance gains).

On the other hand if you are looking for different sounds, looks or just like projects to eek out every last bit of performance you can they may be worth it. It becomes very subjective whether it is worth it or not.

 

[A7xogg]

That’s pretty much the common consensus. There is a little gain but not worth the price of entry (if you are only looking for performance gains).

On the other hand if you are looking for different sounds, looks or just like projects to eek out every last bit of performance you can they may be worth it. It becomes very subjective whether it is worth it or not.

Over the years, I've seen the same thing is that the stock intake is better than the aftermarket for performance cause the first few intakes to come out for a new platform seem to suck and tuners don't quite have the platform down yet. You give it a few years and they there are finally intakes that give you that 10whp 20 wtq gains that other companies promised 3 years earlier cause they finally caught up. And over different platforms open air filter intakes with the fewest restrictions will make the most power despite having higher iat's than closed box intakes. And we're not even adding a velocity stack and filter yet( no there not a gimic they do add power). Also most if not all turbo cars these days have a target tq value or something like that and until you tune it the car tries to make that same power no matter the mods. Then it's all a balancing act cause it's an air pump air goes in, air goes out

 

[Dpro]

As I alluded to on FB, this is a very important distinction to make. I want to expand a little bit on this idea and hopefully I don’t subtract from the data.

The consumer must determine, based on the data, whether the gains from an intake is worth its price. Many decide they want an intake anyway, and that is great. But, if you’re solely basing a decision on data, the data needs to be scrutinized because the gains really are very minimal. In light of the minimal gains, you could spend that money elsewhere and be happier, overall. I understand that some people just like putting their hands to work and modding, so again, that’s perfectly fine.

I just believe that it is extremely important to understand WHY you’re modding. This information is great because it gives consumers a chance to understand that they aren’t getting a whole lot of bang for their buck, should they choose to make an intake purchase. So that “WHY” becomes more definite as in “because I want to” or “because it does X” instead of “because the Fiesta might need it” or “because it should do X.” We can now make positive statements about intakes instead of relying on normative statements, which is a great thing.



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I tend to agree with this consensus. I have seen these kind of examples on other platforms . Its not surprising . Its true the engine is an air pump but the Turbo is holding it back to a certain extent. Now the thing is if one is only shooting for a certain amount of added power then like HiJinx said above is a intake upgrade even worth the extra money? If a company has put together a package of bolt ons with a tune that is dyno tested and proven to provide overall HP like say Mountune then it might be worth it. Though when piecemealing it one could wind up spending a bunch of money for not a lot of results that make it worth it.

While the AEM showed some gains are they worth the cost? Would your money be better spent elsewhere.
If you’re going hybrid or big Turbo then ya it might add into the eqausion overall more significantly . Again I would probably say HiJinx would know this better than most.

Its all about weighing the options. I bought a Thermal exhaust I come from the world of turbo cars where we alwayd went bigger on the exhuast I also did it for esthetics . Will it make a bog difference probably not. I will like it. Lol I can also see people doing open air intakes for that very reason esthically pleasing.
On a E36 BMW intakes don’t make enough of a difference for the money spent but they do sound cool. Lol

Though on a Turbo car One can question that the hotter air under hood is causing higher charge temps and causing some kind of trade off.

Thats just my opinion.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I bought a Thermal exhaust. I come from the world of turbo cars where we always went bigger on the exhaust I also did it for aesthetics .

This is only the second boosted car I've ever owned, and the very FIRST turbo car for me ever.
I always heard (and believed to be FACT) that one could not ever go BIG ENOUGH on the exhaust diameter for a turbo car, regardless of the size of the snail, NOR the actual displacement of the engine.

I have since discovered the contrary to that above theorem on here, but STILL wanted the 3" CP-E Nexus system for sound, and yes, I will admit it, for the aesthetics.

 

[danbfree]

Great thread worth a little bump... as for me I did eventually do the turbo inlet and crossover but haven't messed with the induction hose because of the '16+ issues and don't want to guess on if one of the "fixes" works fully without converting to the '14-'15 evap lines that could be recalled.

 

[Dpro]

Great thread worth a little bump... as for me I did eventually do the turbo inlet and crossover but haven't messed with the induction hose because of the '16+ issues and don't want to guess on if one of the "fixes" works fully without converting to the '14-'15 evap lines that could be recalled.

I have the new Mountune induction hose 16+ On my car its in my build thread.
Check it out. It works flawlessly no CEL lights at all. Looks very stock like as I wemt with the Black hose. If you add up buying a Whoosh non 16 hose and then the factory 14-15 evap lines then your pretty much at the price of the Mountune hose which turns it into a decision on which you would like.

I had bought a Whoosh pre 16 intake hose and Rons evap mod kit ( cheaper than the 14-15 lines)
Though I am here in Cali and trying to keep the underhood appearance closer to stock locking. Plus with the Mountne hose I can literally swap in my factory hose in ten minutes. No messing with evap lines or block off kits.

 

[danbfree]

I have the new Mountune induction hose 16+ On my car its in my build thread.
Check it out. It works flawlessly no CEL lights at all. Looks very stock like as I wemt with the Black hose. If you add up buying a Whoosh non 16 hose and then the factory 14-15 evap lines then your pretty much at the price of the Mountune hose which turns it into a decision on which you would like.

I had bought a Whoosh pre 16 intake hose and Rons evap mod kit ( cheaper than the 14-15 lines)
Though I am here in Cali and trying to keep the underhood appearance closer to stock locking. Plus with the Mountune hose I can literally swap in my factory hose in ten minutes. No messing with evap lines or block off kits.

Why did you switch to the Mountune? Did you have issues with Ron's setup or were you just trying to get closer to stock appearance? Mishimoto also has a "16+ setup in the same price range as the Mountune but also was considering getting whatever random induction hose and use one of the $40-45 evap fix's if it works fine.

 

[Dpro]

Why did you switch to the Mountune? Did you have issues with Ron's setup or were you just trying to get closer to stock appearance? Mishimoto also has a "16+ setup in the same price range as the Mountune but also was considering getting whatever random induction hose and use one of the $40-45 evap fix's if it works fine.

The Mishimoto setup is known to not function properly and still throw codes. It has been out for awhile.

I figured Mountune had sorted the issue and I was right. I had not put on the Whoosh parts as my car kept on making trips to the dealer for warranty paint work.

I also decided I did not want my car to look like I had started taking out or sealing stuff all over the place.

I mean a sound symposer removal is not really a big deal.. But evap lines? Ya , same with putting in 15 evap lines. They look just enough different than stock for my year.
Plus with this setup I can pop my stock hose back in in 5 minutes if needed.

 

[TDavis]

I got lucky and just switched my friends EVAP lines from his 2015 to my 2017 as he didn't care for it. No CEL here

 

[Dpro]

I got lucky and just switched my friends EVAP lines from his 2015 to my 2017 as he didn't care for it. No CEL here

I am sure wher you are its not as much of an issue. Here in California its a violation of smog laws to mess with evap lines and visibly different looking, between the years something techs do usually know.

 

[danbfree]

So going back and taking a closer look at the results, the AEM is impressive and was done without a crossover upgrade... So looking further, the AEM replaces the airbox and induction hose but not the crossover, so I'm now considering the AEM since I have the crossover and inlet, would just need an evap fix... or keep it cheap and just add an induction hose and evap fix... We have CA emissions when new here but they only do OBD smog checks, no visual or tailpipe unless you come in loud and stinky.

 

[danbfree]

I am sure wher you are its not as much of an issue. Here in California its a violation of smog laws to mess with evap lines and visibly different looking, between the years something techs do usually know.

Like seriously? They can tell the difference if you used an actual OEM part from an earlier year? I kind of doubt they would catch that if you used a '14-'15 evap harness on a '16+, it's still very much OEM...

 

[Dpro]

Like seriously? They can tell the difference if you used an actual OEM part from an earlier year? I kind of doubt they would catch that if you used a '14-'15 evap harness on a '16+, it's still very much OEM...

Like seriuosly... lol yes. I live in Cali you are in Oregon there is a reason lots of us are running ST200 Airboxs etc. Smog techs are not idiots. They have to take refresh courses all the time to keep up,with model year changes.
Its is against the CARB rules to swap in parts from earlier years in your emissions systems.
The sharp techs indeed will know. Its really called how much are you willing to roll the dice and get the tech that might not give a shit or be up on stuff. If you have to go to a referee then ya no dice rolling.They will call you on visual shit your head will spin.
I had a 240sx exhaust ticket had to go to the ref. One would think he would just tailpipe decibel meter test it. Nope he went straight to my hood popped it and started inspecting my engine bay to make sure everything was right.

I know peole who have done legal engine swaps with one fuel line out of place and the referee has called it on that.
Smog techs its a gamble and who you know. Refs nine out of ten are gonna hammer you. Koozy went straight back to all stock underhood that was visible when he got reff’d. Evap lines are visible refs look at everything for your year.
Not worth gambling in my book some do I don’t . Used to more when I was younger , been there done that been to the ref as well. No fun.

Sum it up...
Fact is the cost of full 15 evap lines and a 14-15 Whoosh intake tube even with discounts still comes out to the price of the Mountune Hose for 16+ plus .

So why make things hard with fiddling with evap lines. Buy the Mountune put it in and done. Get ref’d swap it out for your stock hose in 5 minutes to play it safe.