Confused about oil weights...help !

[Intuit]

http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.com/PDFs/SynMax_UNV_How_Modern_Catalytic_Converters_Work.pdf
http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/too_much_zinc_in_your_oil

 

[jmrtsus]

http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.com/PDFs/SynMax_UNV_How_Modern_Catalytic_Converters_Work.pdf
http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/too_much_zinc_in_your_oil

All I saw was info on high levels of additives that are no longer allowed, did not see anything saying today's High Milage API oils have more than 800 ppm of Phosphorus.

Also the Synmax data is so old it is useless. (pre GF-5 spec) The Motorweek one says what I am saying, today's API formulations (800 ppm) are just fine. That level is allowed as it has been determined to NOT harm cats, the API certification on the container insures they do not. No doubt high levels are a problem. But a check of a few HM oils show they do not contain any harmful levels and I feel sure none of the other major brands do that meet our specs. There is special purpose oils(break-in, Racing) that do, but certainly nothing recommended in your Fiesta ST manual, LOL. The additives in the High Milage oils address seals and gaskets to cause them to soften and swell. Great cure for worn valve seals and minor gasket leaks. Will not do a thing for worn Cylinders. If someone thinks they need it it is there and Ford approved.

 

[Intuit]

Okay so we established that these additives are bad now. Good. I didn't say it had more that the API standard... in fact the links I pointed to stated that very fact. I see you actually do like straw-men arguments.

With recent exception to Castrol brand, (who apparently adapted to criticisms,) High Mileage oils have more of these additives than those that are not dubbed as, "High Mileage". http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT Web/articles/Modern Motor Oil and the LT5 Engine.pdf More manufacturers may have followed Castrol's wake and reduced levels.

 

[jmrtsus]

,

Okay so we established that these additives are bad now. Good. I didn't say it had more that the API standard... in fact the links I pointed to stated that very fact. I see you actually do like straw-men arguments.

With recent exception to Castrol brand, (who apparently adapted to criticisms,) High Mileage oils have more of these additives than those that are not dubbed as, "High Mileage". http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT Web/articles/Modern Motor Oil and the LT5 Engine.pdf More manufacturers may have followed Castrol's wake and reduced levels.

"also a known fact that the additives they increase for "high mileage" oils are bad for catalytic converters."

Know to be NOT true...they do not reach the harmful level. If you want to play word games and show your ignorance go ahead. The point is they are safe and not bad for our cars, again at the approved level they cause no harm. Clear yet strawman. If not try reading classes, you could not even read your references could you?

 

[Sekred]

OF COURSE, but, is it enough oil being regularly burned in a 'healthy' engine to actually have a detrimental effect on the catcon(s)??

Most of the big cam pushrod, modern day V-8s have hydraulic roller lifters (unless modded/converted by their owners to solid roller lifters), so the need for ridiculous amounts of ZDDP no longer exists, except in all-out, FULL RACE type, engines, or vintage/classic musclecars which have completely retained their 'true to the period' valvetrains.

Besides, I have seen studies which show that very high concentrations of ZDDP can actually hurt the function of said roller lifters (whether solid OR hydraulic), since it 'wedges up' under the leading edge of the lifter's roller, and actually stops it from rolling on the cam lobes as it's designed to do.

At that point it becomes, essentially, a solid tappet lifter in function, and wears out/gouges a 'slot' into the cam lobe even quicker than a flat tappet would, regardless of how much ZDDP is in the oil.

I really can't comment on what happens in a "heathy" engine regarding the concentration of zinc as a additive. The claim from the API was that high concentrations can reduce the efficiency of the Catalytic over its life time. How long does a Cat lasts, 100,000 to 200,000 miles?.

 

[Intuit]

,

"also a known fact that the additives they increase for "high mileage" oils are bad for catalytic converters."

Know to be NOT true...they do not reach the harmful level. If you want to play word games and show your ignorance go ahead. The point is they are safe and not bad for our cars, again at the approved level they cause no harm. Clear yet strawman. If not try reading classes, you could not even read your references could you?

We can go back and forth... you ask for proof of my statements, I provide them, you ignore them. Better things to do with my time, I have...

 

[jmrtsus]

I really can't comment on what happens in a "heathy" engine regarding the concentration of zinc as a additive. The claim from the API was that high concentrations can reduce the efficiency of the Catalytic over its life time. How long does a Cat lasts, 100,000 to 200,000 miles?.

It is the phosphorus that causes cat problems in the ZDDP not the zinc. Too much zinc can cause spalling on bearings from what I read in racing oils. But much more ZDDP than was ever in normal oils.

Any oil including High Mileage oils that meet your manuals specs (GF-5) will not have a harmful concentration of either.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Not sure if you honestly misunderstood or this was a strawman argument.

Actually "High Mileage" does sound gimmicky. IT is also a known fact that the additives they increase for "high mileage" oils are bad for catalytic converters.

Yes, I totally misunderstood, thinking that you were implying that BOTH titanium (as used as a marketing 'tool' by Castrol) as well as "High Mileage" were "gimmiky".

IF they go way too far on the ZDDP, yes, they can be bad for the catcons, since usually the older the car/higher mileage it is, the more oil is getting past the rings and valve seals.
But from the specs I have seen on these oils, they are only slightly higher in ZDDP content than the current GF-5/SN limits, but I am sure there are exceptions to that in some of them.

The more useful additive in the "high mileage' labelled oils is the ester 'seal swellers/conditioners' they mix in to help with the slight main/pan/front cover/cam or valve cover/etc. seal/gasket leaks older and high mileage cars frequently have.

Since a newer car's seals are fine, and these additives can actually over-soften, and break down newer seals, I would NEVER use this stuff in a newer/low mileage car, even if they told me those ester additives were the mildest version possible.
(BTW; these are COMPLETELY different ester compounds than the ones used as Group 5 oil base stocks. )