Mountune Fiesta ST Radiator Upgrade

[jayrod1980]

Edit: Buy the Mountune... works great, keeps temps under 200F in Las Vegas, barely thicker than stock.

Well as far as testimony goes... I'm in Vegas which is almost as hot as Arizona, usually within a degree or two. I've not gotten the radiator to hit 200F yet even once... highest was 199.8F. Some of this I believe is due to Adam's programming of when the fan kicks on. However... when coolant hits 199F it's only upon warm up. The coolant settles at 185 and never goes higher than 191F thereafter, even on hard pulls. I'm running 75/25 water to coolant. I'm interested in deleting the fluid to oil cooler, but I can't figure out where and what part to buy to replace the center threaded piece so that the sandwich plates on the market will work. I'm not interesting in paying $200 for a mishimoto one. The Derale and Mocal ones look fine, but are both made to attach to the stock filter connection. What temperature should oil be anyway? I know it needs to be over 180F, but in high speeds (where oil is typically hottest), my oil will sit at 216F even when the coolant is only 183F.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^If the oil never gets over 210*F, it will not volatilize the un-burnt blowby fuel, nor the moisture in the sump/crankcase.

But being located where you are, you will not have to worry about this, even with the MOST efficient air to oil cooler (at least in the summer).

 

[jayrod1980]

According to Mocal, oil needs to get to 180F to burn up contaminates, etc. I notice when oil is 205F or lower (granted this is some kind of algorithm, that oil is not actually measured accurately by a temp gauge) that I never see any kind of ignition corrections. However, when oil reaches 216F or so by the AccessPort, sometimes I see ignition corrections when not at WOT. WOT exhibits no corrections regardless with the new radiator. During more temperate months, when outside temperatures are under 100F, zero ignition corrections happen either. This leads me to believe that the stock fluid to oil cooler cannot adequately cool down the oil, even when the radiator is doing just fine. Thus, what is the optimal temperature for oil? Is it 200F?

 

[ThaiFiesta]

what is the optimal temperature for oil? Is it 200F?

I found this online, but it would also depend on ambient and engine running temperatures as well as the type and rating of oil you are using. Too Cold oil can be as bad as too hot. I'm going to insurance oil temp and toessure gauges when I install an oil cooler.

"Ideal operating oil temperatures are between 230° and 260° where oil flows the most freely and provides the best lubrication. Petroleum-based engine oil breaks down very rapidly and loses lubricating properties as temperatures near 285°. Synthetic motor oil holds up better in higher temperatures and provides better engine endurance under extreme heat."
https://www.motorstate.com/TheTemperaturesandPressuresofRacing.htm

 

[M-Sport fan]

According to Mocal, oil needs to get to 180F to burn up contaminates, etc. I notice when oil is 205F or lower (granted this is some kind of algorithm, that oil is not actually measured accurately by a temp gauge) that I never see any kind of ignition corrections. However, when oil reaches 216F or so by the AccessPort, sometimes I see ignition corrections when not at WOT. WOT exhibits no corrections regardless with the new radiator. During more temperate months, when outside temperatures are under 100F, zero ignition corrections happen either. This leads me to believe that the stock fluid to oil cooler cannot adequately cool down the oil, even when the radiator is doing just fine. Thus, what is the optimal temperature for oil? Is it 200F?

Regardless of what Mocal says (BTW; they are one of the brands I would prefer for an oil to air cooler ), if/when i install an oil to air cooler, it WILL have a thermostat on it, set to at least 200*F, whether or not that is ideal/optimal.
I've seen way too much mocha gunk under fill caps in my lifetime to run oil temps @ 180*F!

 

[jayrod1980]

Regardless of what Mocal says (BTW; they are one of the brands I would prefer for an oil to air cooler ), if/when i install an oil to air cooler, it WILL have a thermostat on it, set to at least 200*F, whether or not that is ideal/optimal.
I've seen way too much mocha gunk under fill caps in my lifetime to run oil temps @ 180*F!

Well, that is definitely fair. Reading further on some other forums, such as "Bobistheoilguy," The temps really also depend on the weight of the oil. 20 weight oil, such as in our car is too low to run at those 230-250F raciing temperatures noted by Hot Rod magazine. In those applications, a 40 weight oil would be more appropriate. I do know that good, full synthetic can handle higher temperatures, but we also have to think about the breakdown of plastic and rubber parts and whatever.

It's interesting what you are noting about blow-by, as my catch can is just about bone-dry when changing my oil during these hot months. In the winter I get some in there, but its pretty small for my average 5K-mile oil changes. The mocal sandwich plate I plan to purchase does have a 200F thermostat option, but the stock one is 180F.

Everyone always talks about how bad highway driving is on your car, but if the AcessPort is even somewhat accurate, my oil is always shown reading well above 200F during my 80MPH, 30 highway-mile commute. That's a good thing right?I do downshift when going around vehicles, so the speeds actually vary between the 70MPH speed limit and usually no greater than 80MPH (lots of police on that road). Whether it's good or not, I also am fully warmed up by the time I hit the highway and do a fun WOT 15-85MPH pull every time I get on that same highway.

Higher oil operating temperatures are also supposed to be beneficial to horsepower and MPG due to decreased drag on the engine internals. Between elevation changes (2200ft - 3000ft), variable high winds, the car being modified, and the 205/45 Indy 500's, I average a little less fuel economy than stock. I think the biggest effect might be the increased diameter of the wheels/tires throwing off my odometer. I don't get great mileage going to and from work, but trips to Arizona or San Diego I average 30MPG or more. All in all, it's not bad considering the car is running 80 lb-ft more torque than stock, and considerably better throttle response from the Tune and DV+.

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on my oil cooler setup. With the DHM intercooler and crash bar, mounting options are limited as the open radiator area is already compromised. I've seen one mounted directly below the crash bar, but it's just held on by metal zip ties, and I feel like the hoses hanging down into the lower grill area look ugly. Plus, If I mount my cooler in that area, I want it set back some from the crash bar to give the bar at least a little bit of a chance to do it's just and not immediately have oil leaking out everywhere. Now that DHM is out of business, unless someone picks up their IP, I'm afraid I'll have to go back to the stock bumper and buy a different intercooler if something ever mashes up the tubular crash bar.

The Derale and Mocal coolers are beefy bar and plate, but I'm actually looking into those Long Manufacturing Tru-Cool ones because they are a little slimmer, and still not tube/fin. They get good reviews, but definitely aren't as beefy as the other two.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^The irony is that the higher the viscosity of the oil (to handle the heat without shearing/thinning out the film strength/volatilizing too much), the MORE heat is produced from friction as a result of having to pump/pressurize that thicker oil (more bitog wisdom! LOL).

Part of the reason for going to a great/efficient oil to air cooler is expressly FOR the ability to run a lower viscosity oil without fear of; shear, 'breakdown', volitility, etc., and keeping that power gained from the lower resultant friction/heat

There ARE 20 weight oils out there which are all but 'shear proof' due to their high group 5/ester content base stocks (Red Line, Motul 300V, MPT 30K, Millers, etc.), and can handle CRAZY temps (these mainly group 4/5 base stock oils LAUGH AT 300*F+ oil temps, regardless of stated viscosity!!), but sadly they are NOT Ford approved/spec formulas due to their very high anti-friction/anti-wear additive packs (which are claimed to be NOT catcon 'friendly', even in a properly functioning, NOT oil burning for whatever reason, engine).

 

[Brura22]

I've used Shell Rotella T6 in the car since the first oil change.
Infact, I use it in every single of my turbocharged and performance N/A cars.

I swear by it, the early mazdaspeed 3 guys who pioneered Turbo DI swear by it, everyone I know swear by it.
And it hasn't failed me once.

The additives used in it are meant to cope with dirty turbo diesel rigs, so it's great for turbocharged applications.
I send a sample off every oil change and the results are always great.



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[BronxBomber]

I've used Shell Rotella T6 in the car since the first oil change.
Infact, I use it in every single of my turbocharged and performance N/A cars.

I swear by it, the early mazdaspeed 3 guys who pioneered Turbo DI swear by it, everyone I know swear by it.
And it hasn't failed me once.

The additives used in it are meant to cope with dirty turbo diesel rigs, so it's great for turbocharged applications.
I send a sample off every oil change and the results are always great.



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Same here . Love the Rotella T6. I used to run Mobile 1 in my modded Subaru religiously. I blew a ring land and consequently put a brand new race motor in, bigger turbo, meth, cams, crank etc. started using Rotella and never had any issues with my motor, and I beat the living crap out of it daily.

 

[juliog]

I HAVE SOME GREAT NEWS:

I was a bit skeptical of this radiator considering it's size is not much larger than stock and the fact that my coolant temps around town were never in the 180Fs like Mishimoto users claim.

BUT

I just came back from my track day and have nothing but good things to say about it. Only 1.5 lbs heavier than stock and with only an extra half quart coolant this radiator kept my temps at 228F and below in 95F ambient heat in two separate 10 min sessions (7 laps) with 5 of those laps being taken flat out in a row. When I had the stock radiator I could only manage 2 consecutive fast laps before overheating (250F coolant temps and full H on the temp sensor + limp mode). I'm pretty sure this radiator could have kept me cool even if I had done over 15 fast laps without stopping.

VERY IMPRESSED. HIGHLY RECOMMEND. QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE IN ONE.

That's pretty good for 95F ambient! Do you also have an oil cooler? Running 50/50 coolant/water mix?

 

[KraZe]

That's pretty good for 95F ambient! Do you also have an oil cooler? Running 50/50 coolant/water mix?

No oil cooler just the stock unit but I ran a 75% water / 25% coolant mix with about 6 oz of Redline Water Wetter for good measure.

On that note, I'd like to report that I returned to the racetrack 2 weeks ago in 88F ambient temps and managed to do 30 laps in 2 sessions (15 laps each) with over half of those taken flat out. I had ZERO cooling issues the whole day. In fact, I didn't bother to hook up my coolant temp gauge this time around since I was confident I wouldn't overheat.

 

[alexrex20]

For the folks using Rotella T6, which one are you using? I can only seem to find 5w-40 but it looks like they make a 5w-30 as well.

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[juliog]

Buttonwillow Raceway Park 09/27/2017, ~75F ambient
Mountune radiator - Distilled water /w Nano Cool
Mishimoto Oil Cooler - Pennzoil Platinum Ultra
CPE intercooler
215/17 Dunlop ZII on 7.5" wheels
Brembo GT BBK from Project Mu and PFC brake pads from CounterSpace Garage
Meister ZCRD coilovers

Only running 2:09 - 2:10 laps due to not having coilovers aligned or corner balanced yet, and being *very low* on sleep . My PB at that track is 2:08 on stock tires and stock suspension.

Had Mountune install their radiator this week on my ST. With the stock radiator and the Mishimoto oil cooler, coolant would reach 250F after 4 hot laps in similar weather. With the Mountune radiator, coolant didn't go over 220F over a ~15 minute session. That's a big improvement, but I think I will still have to add hood vents to get peak coolant temps 5-10F lower and also make car trackable 4 seasons.

 

[dL_ST]

I ran Thill west with Mountune radiator and no oil cooler.

Ambient temperature - 100F
Distilled water with water wetter.
Coolant temps steady at 220F during four 15 min sessions.

My day ended early because of boiling fluid.

 

[ThaiFiesta]

I think I will still have to add hood vents to get peak coolant temps 5-10F lower and also make car trackable 4 seasons.

Which hold vents are you looking at using?
Out of interest what app are you using to track the readings in the graph you attached.?

 

[vegaspyder]

Spring Mountain Motorsports 3.4 mile track, around 75 degrees ambient and 20 minute sessions I snapped some pics of my AP to show the peaks. I'll post the one with the highest peak temps.

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[M-Sport fan]

^^^Mountune radiator?

(I forgot if you had one, or if your's was the Mishi. )

 

[juliog]

Which hold vents are you looking at using?
Out of interest what app are you using to track the readings in the graph you attached.?

Perhaps TracksSpec vents. Data logged using AccessPort v3.

 

[vegaspyder]

^^^Mountune radiator?

(I forgot if you had one, or if your's was the Mishi. )

Just put in a Mountune last week. Was stock before.

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[M-Sport fan]

Just put in a Mountune last week. Was stock before.

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Thanks for the info/screen shots above!