GB GROUP BUY: 949Racing 6UL Wheels in 15x8 +36 4x108

[RAAMaudio]

Goodwinracing, likely the largest supplier of wheels for the Miata, is in the process of bringing out the 16x7,8,9 flow formed light weight Advanti Storm, I was there at the final planning meeting last Jan. It would likely be priced around $179 per wheel. I have no update in the last few months on the progress, these things can take quite a bit of time as new molds have to be made.

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I have been bitching about the horrible 4x108 since day one and did the first 4x100 conversion 2.5 years ago with just 293 miles on the car.

 

[M-Sport fan]

It's not he wheel manufacturers that are to blame for lack of wheel options, it's FORD. The wheel manufacturers risk losing money by making wheels for a niche market like ours. What does Ford risk by making he bolt pattern 4x100 from the factory??? Nothing. They are the boneheads that make our lives miserable.

I think the whole mentality, or "risk" for them is that then the unknowing, non-enthusiasts who buy this car have NO WHERE ELSE to go but to them to spend what $350.00+ EACH for the fugly factory wheels if they need a replacement, and maybe they hope the same thing as to why they use a very low choice option of TIRE size as well?

Some will say that they cannot be blamed for the above, but it is still WRONG IMHO.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Goodwinracing, likely the largest supplier of wheels for the Miata, is in the process of bringing out the 16x7,8,9 flow formed light weight Advanti Storm, I was there at the final planning meeting last Jan. It would likely be priced around $179 per wheel. I have no update in the last few months on the progress, these things can take quite a bit of time as new molds have to be made.

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I have been bitching about the horrible 4x108 since day one and did the first 4x100 conversion 2.5 years ago with just 293 miles on the car.

If they do not come out with this option by spring, I am going with the Pro Race 1.2s (which I think are better looking anyway) in either 16x7 with 215/45s on them (YES, sacrilege I know!), or "worse yet", in 17x8s with 215/40s on them, WEIGHT BE DAMNED!!!

I REFUSE to be forced into a 4x100 conversion to save some un-sprung mass for street use!

It's funny, but NONE of the other automotive enthusiast groups I've ever been involved with have been quite this overly obsessed with wheel/tire weight, maybe because those cars had much power to spare (maybe 'too much' even stock for road course use??), or could it be that in order to get light weight wheels one had to spend $850.00+ PER WHEEL to get fully forged rollers?!?

 

[jeffreylyon]

What does Ford risk by making he bolt pattern 4x100 from the factory??? Nothing. They are the boneheads that make our lives miserable.

European Fords have been using 4x108 forever - my Mk1 Fiesta used 4x108. They've adopted a standard that isn't very popular in the States, but that doesn't mean that they're trying to screw anyone. In fact, I'll bet that there would be a bunch of pissed-of Germans and Brits if Ford moved to 4x100 for the Mk7 Fiesta. They'd all say "Sure, just make us all buy new wheels to replace the massive 4x108 collection in the aftermarket that we've been using on Fiestas since the Mk1.

Alfa went 4x98, Opel, VW, and many Japanese went to 4x100, Ford and Saab went 4x108, Nissan and MG (for the B) went 4x114, and the list goes on.... It we all ran the same 4xsomething we'd be complaining about offsets. Pffft - why in the hell does Ford build their suspensions for ET45 when *everyone* else builds for ET30?!

 

[RAAMaudio]

The wheel wells on this car do not even support 17" wheels that well, due to tire diameters making for few choices. I know not many to pick from in 16" tires but better than 17" in some cases and they could of made a decent weight wheel for a decent cost, 15lb 16x7.5 or 8.

Been counters, marketing, "style", ignorance......

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm probably going to wait for the 17 inch wheels to release.

WHO is doing this, or is the 'go between' with 949Racing for these in the 4x108 ?!?!

It is NOT FSWERKS like some have stated!

 

[OffTheWall503]

Are you sure? In my emails 949 specifically mentioned FSWerks.

 

[jeffreylyon]

It's funny, but NONE of the other automotive enthusiast groups I've ever been involved with have been quite this overly obsessed with wheel/tire weight, maybe because those cars had much power to spare (maybe 'too much' even stock for road course use??), or could it be that in order to get light weight wheels one had to spend $850.00+ PER WHEEL to get fully forged rollers?!?

It may be because this forum has a higher percentage of A/C and/or HDPE guys than does most other model-specific enthusiast forums. Once you start talking to A/C and HPDE guys you'll find that moving to lighter wheels is a given; they're all talking about lithium batteries and replacing their seats to save weight. Personally, I wanted the weight loss for everything but power and, boy, am I satisfied.

Google "Fast Ford Fiesta light wheel" and you'll find a write up by a UK magazine that found meaningful to massive improvements (lap time decreased from 1:28 to 1:24) with lighter wheels. In fact, the only thing that didn't improve was 0-60/100 because they kept spinning the tires. Show me another single $1000 (hardware) mod that'll pull 4 seconds off of a 1:28 lap and I'll sign up tonight.

 

[jeffreylyon]

WHO is doing this, or is the 'go between' with 949Racing for these in the 4x108 ?!?!

It is NOT FSWERKS like some have stated!

I receive the response I posted in mid July. Give 949 a call to see if anything has changed, but be ready for a nasty response; they seemed pretty tired answering the same question over and over.

 

[RAAMaudio]

It is possible the person involved at SF Works did not tell everyone about it, I have seen many lapses in knowledge shared at different companies over the years.

I do not recall all that has been posted about this situation but the person(s) involved may of not gotten very far and could of even left the company, I have seen it all....

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As for saving weight on wheels and if possible on tires has always been known and practiced in A/C, HPDE, TT, road racing, look at drag racers as well, top teams do the same. I have raced bicycles, that alone makes me a believer.

Most on forums are just not experienced enough to know the difference and some will argue about it but they are rather clueless most of the time.

I have spent a lot of my time here promoting this because I have decades experience and know many just do not realize how important it is and follow some fad, trend, and do not pick well then others jump on board not realizing the ramifications of their actions.

Of course some might even get it but they care more about how the car looks, usually how others look at it, than how it performs which is really odd to me, this is a real performance car, why not enhance it instead of making it slower

(my last three project cars, two race, one street/race, all ran 18's because that what worked best for them)

 

[M-Sport fan]

It may be because this forum has a higher percentage of A/C and/or HDPE guys than does most other model-specific enthusiast forums. Once you start talking to A/C and HPDE guys you'll find that moving to lighter wheels is a given; they're all talking about lithium batteries and replacing their seats to save weight. Personally, I wanted the weight loss for everything but power and, boy, am I satisfied.

Google "Fast Ford Fiesta light wheel" and you'll find a write up by a UK magazine that found meaningful to massive improvements (lap time decreased from 1:28 to 1:24) with lighter wheels. In fact, the only thing that didn't improve was 0-60/100 because they kept spinning the tires. Show me another single $1000 (hardware) mod that'll pull 4 seconds off of a 1:28 lap and I'll sign up tonight.

It WAS on a site EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to autocrossing and road racing/open tracking a given car.
Maybe they just took for granted that everyone was going to use the very lightest wheel they could, or maybe they just blew off the whole issue due to the dearth of lightweight AFFORDABLE wheels in the sizes needed (UNLIKE what is available to us here)??
They were much more concerned about getting the MAXIMUM width, and grip they could concerning any tires put on the cars they were using.

I am NOT in any way. shape, or form questioning the physics involved, nor the validity of, the claims, just the abject, single minded, obsession with the (sometimes only) grams involved between the weights of two wheels or tires on this site.

In other words, the mantra on here seems to be; "give up ALL wants of aesthetics, or needs of grip, in order to save that half pound in this area", even if it means HATING the looks of your car when you walk up to it every day, and even for street use ONLY.
(I am NOT saying your setup, but IF I 'had to' take that same wheel in silver, on MY color FiST, in order to save un-sprung weight, I would hate it's aesthetics about as much as I hate the factory fuglies. )

Maybe we should all be spending $1500.00+ a wheel to put custom made, 7 lb. forged magnesium wheels on our cars to take advantage of the 'physics' involved?

 

[M-Sport fan]

As for saving weight on wheels and if possible on tires has always been known and practiced in A/C, HPDE, TT, road racing, look at drag racers as well, top teams do the same. I have raced bicycles, that alone makes me a believer.

Of course, but, in pro cycling they will NOT ALWAYS just choose lighter weight wheels/tires in and for EVERY condition/use, hands down over everything else as a matter of fact.

Going straight uphill (or a stage mostly uphill), YES, lowest weight wins hand down, every time, but, if it is going to be a flat stage, against the wind, or against the clock, they will choose a heavier wheel which is much more aerodynamic to use, yes, even with the disadvantage it poses in speed/pace changes with it's use on said stages.

Now, if they somehow could have BOTH, in ONE wheelset, of course that would win out, but there are absolute physical limitations on that possibility.

 

[RAAMaudio]

My first 15x9 wheels weighed 12.8lbs and I have one brand new set I need to sell. Then a 13.4lb wheel that was more aerodynamic and stronger came out and I bought ten of them so I do understand it is sometimes better to go heavier, I also liked the style much better

Now that rebuilt my BBK mounts I could run the 6UL in 15x9 or even up front 15x10 but the savings is not really worth all the trouble though I have been very tempted to do so but spent the money on a CF hood instead as I need to get more weight off the front of the car.

The 15x9 is 12.8 lbs so I would only save .6lbs per wheel, the 15x10 is around 13.4lbs I believe, I was considering them with 245 slicks for the track, 225 rear on 9's.

 

[jeffreylyon]

It WAS on a site EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to autocrossing and road racing/open tracking a given car.
Maybe they just took for granted that everyone was going to use the very lightest wheel they could, or maybe they just blew off the whole issue due to the dearth of lightweight AFFORDABLE wheels in the sizes needed (UNLIKE what is available to us here)??
They were much more concerned about getting the MAXIMUM width, and grip they could concerning any tires put on the cars they were using.

I am NOT in any way. shape, or form questioning the physics involved, nor the validity of, the claims, just the abject, single minded, obsession with the (sometimes only) grams involved between the weights of two wheels or tires on this site.

In other words, the mantra on here seems to be; "give up ALL wants of aesthetics, or needs of grip, in order to save that half pound in this area", even if it means HATING the looks of your car when you walk up to it every day, and even for street use ONLY.
(I am NOT saying your setup, but IF I 'had to' take that same wheel in silver, on MY color FiST, in order to save un-sprung weight, I would hate it's aesthetics about as much as I hate the factory fuglies. )

Maybe we should all be spending $1500.00+ a wheel to put custom made, 7 lb. forged magnesium wheels on our cars to take advantage of the 'physics' involved?

The great thing about having choices is that you can make yours as you see fit. I don't see anyone scoffing at another's wheels because they aren't the lightest available. Nor do I see any of the A/C or HPDE guys lecturing to guys that just want a great looking street car about the best way to save weight, irrespective of style. Get the 1.2s in 15", or 17", or the Spaco's, or the OZ's - I'm sure that they will look as great on your car as they do on the other car's on this site. As long as *you* are happy with *your* car, nobody else will give you grief or, if they do, fuck 'em.

I'm very happy with my setup - $219 a corner, good looks (in my opinion), specs. that help me do what I want to do with the car, and all they cost me, over the cost of the wheels, was a day working on my car, which I enjoy anyways.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^YES, THANK YOU!

I am also suspecting/speculating that the 1.2s might actually be a little bit stronger than all of these "top quality" very light wheels, yes, even despite the feather weight's supposedly superior casting processes, due to the 1.2's heat treatment, if not the extra material in them causing their heft (and yes, also despite the very questionable, possibly owner misuse scenarios for some of the 1.2s cracking as they have).

Again, not sure, but we ARE taking the manufacturer's word for it that their processes are all that strong, especially for STREET use.
(I don't need to remind you just how SHITTY our roads are here in this state, and just how great most of the road conditions are in some of the other forum members' states, who are touting zero weight wheels as the be all, end all for street use, correct?)

Yes, you did a perfect job with that rolling stock on your FiST, but not all of us are willing to go through that (or?)deal just so that we can use 10-16 lb. wheels, because the fickle manufacturers refuse to produce them in our sizes.

IF I did, with my luck, there would either be stress risers created (no matter HOW carefully I proceded) causing a catastrophic crack and resultant disaster, or, when I went to sell the car (IF I had to only!), I would be called out on the extra set of holes in the hub, and lose the sale because of it, so I choose to NOT go that route.

 

[BronxBomber]

I agree. To each his own. I'm about form and function. I want the lightest wheels I can get in a size I like 17" and that look good to me. I'm prepping my car for HPDE, but I'm not going to go 15 just because they're lighter than the 17" version by 3lbs. Of I were going all out race car, then yes, I may go 15", but my car is first and foremost my streetcar which will be seeing occasional track duty. I don't have the space to have multiple sets of wheels, so for me it will be just like Jeffreylyon. 17x8 6UL wrapped in215/40/17 Federal RS-R. This will be my street and track set up. Somewhat compromised, but better than a lot of other people on the road.

 

[jeffreylyon]

^^^YES, THANK YOU!

I am also suspecting/speculating that the 1.2s might actually be a little bit stronger than all of these "top quality" very light wheels, yes, even despite the feather weight's supposedly superior casting processes, due to the 1.2's heat treatment, if not the extra material in them causing their heft (and yes, also despite the very questionable, possibly owner misuse scenarios for some of the 1.2s cracking as they have).

Again, not sure, but we ARE taking the manufacturer's word for it that their processes are all that strong, especially for STREET use.
(I don't need to remind you just how SHITTY our roads are here in this state, and just how great most of the road conditions are in some of the other forum members' states, who are touting zero weight wheels as the be all, end all for street use, correct?)

I'll let you continue to grind this axe on your own. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'm prepping my car for HPDE, but I'm not going to go 15 just because they're lighter than the 17" version by 3lbs. If I were going all out race car, then yes, I may go 15", but my car is first and foremost my streetcar which will be seeing occasional track duty.

Yup, and IF I were going all out race car, the interior would be gutted down to bare metal, with EVERY extra bracket, bolt, and extra edge ground down to nothing, NO; A/C, heater (well maybe, for over-heating emergencies), stereo, SYNC, or unnecessary parts of the dash (IF any dash at all), the lightest seat and bracketing for it I could find, a NASA/SCCA spec legal cage with harnesses, and an aftermarket steering wheel (which I just today found out from {Tim} O'Neil's school mechanics would entail a conversion to either an old school, complete hydraulic power steering system, or a totally manual system due to the inability to replicate the electric steering system's sensors in the factory wheel onto an aftermarket hub/wheel. ).

And this is BEFORE we even get to the other systems (engine/suspension/brakes/etc.) of the car!

^^^HARDLY a 'streetable' car, no??

But, anything less is a "compromise", or so I'm told.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'll let you continue to grind this axe on your own. Good luck with whatever you chose.

Not really an "axe", just a little bit of resentment due to being made to feel almost a criminal * (LOL) for choosing wheels/tires which weigh any more than 10 lbs. LESS each than the factory wheel/tire combo does.

*Maybe because they feel I am "stealing (performance) from myself" for choosing any heavier rolling stock than the very lightest available out there??

 

[Srt42b]

I would be interested in 4 if we could get them shipped within the next couple months.
For what it's worth, I contacted 949 to see what a minimum run is just to get our bolt pattern and was told 80/color.