INSTALLED - Meister R Coilovers/ Impressions, Pics, Etc.

[LilPartyBox]

Our top mounts are slotted so, with the car up and top mount loose, you'd pull the coil outwards for a DD in the interest of tire longevity. The idea is tighten while wheels are up to set the camber best you can. Then set it on the ground gently for final torque. I've always done it that way so the weight of the car can mitigate the movement of the mount while i gave the nuts their final torque down. I admit this may be overkill but if you set it on the ground completely loose, the coils will likely lean inward (negative camber) under the weight. The lean will be random and obviously different for each side. Even so, as long as you tightened them properly, that shouldn't be the cause for your clunk. If you didn't use a pass through ratchet for the end links, they may be just loose enough to shift under certain loads.

And like Jerrick mentioned, tightening certain things unladen can be problematic. I use a jack under the control arm and jack it up until it's parallel to the ground and THEN tighten the top mount AND end links. This positions all the parts closer to what they will be under driving conditions. This goes doubly if doing the 2pt brace.

 

[Siestarider]

Might have to eat my words from last year, when I opined spending 10% of the cost of the car on springs and dampers was nuts. Way too soon to be sure, but its possible.

I mounted my GT1's while Hurricane Mathew was approaching and prep for it was done. I had them valved for 6/4 springs so I could try Swift. Intended to have them dyno'd before mounting but just could not wait. So put them on with the 5/3 springs that came with them, set 1/4 off full soft both ends, used as much camber as they will allow without drilling out the front top hats. Looks like about 3 degrees negative camber if I ran my tape measure right. Too much, but good to know what is available without much work.

Turn in is obviously instant. Ride is very comfortable, near luxurious. Quiet. I was always aware of the stock suspension, not bad aware, just that it was always there. After a day on these springs and dampers, suspension is something I have to focus on to notice. Ride feel is competent but not obvious.

Adjustment of fronts is just a matter of raising the hood and turning the knobs. I left them just clear of inside of strut hole. Rears may be adjustable by braille method, have not tried yet. Hope so. Clicks are 21 rear and 32 front. I am on 5 rear and 8 front. Wheels are 17" Kosei K5's with BFG SC-2 for reference.

I cannot wait for next track session to feel them out at tire limits. Play with adjustments. Will report back if something becomes noteworthy.

So far, most noteworthy is Jerrick. He is going to sell a lot of dampers over here.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I am SURE that they are the 'cat's meow' as far as all in one adjustable coil overs go, I'm just still not quite convinced that is the best (OR ONLY) way to go, as Jerrick and the other 'all in one' sellers claim.

 

[Crooked Letta]

I am SURE that they are the 'cat's meow' as far as all in one adjustable coil overs go, I'm just still not quite convinced that is the best (OR ONLY) way to go, as Jerrick and the other 'all in one' sellers claim.

Well I think you need to compare features and $$$. You get a lot for the money and in terms of a damper as long as the damping is consistent, adjustment range fits your spring needs, and they are durable then there isn't too much else to consider for a street car. You could argue with the one way adjustment as well but unless you drive on the same exact roads all the time would you really even use a 2-way or 3-way to fine tune at that level? On a track yes, on the street I couldn't see how at least where I live as road conditions change drastically even in a few hundred feet. Then you have the other point mentioned by many owners that these work awesome on the street, so you have a coil over that is durable, good range of adjustment, easy to set up, quality components, at an awesome price.

 

[MeisterR]

Might have to eat my words from last year, when I opined spending 10% of the cost of the car on springs and dampers was nuts. Way too soon to be sure, but its possible.

I mounted my GT1's while Hurricane Mathew was approaching and prep for it was done. I had them valved for 6/4 springs so I could try Swift. Intended to have them dyno'd before mounting but just could not wait. So put them on with the 5/3 springs that came with them, set 1/4 off full soft both ends, used as much camber as they will allow without drilling out the front top hats. Looks like about 3 degrees negative camber if I ran my tape measure right. Too much, but good to know what is available without much work.

Turn in is obviously instant. Ride is very comfortable, near luxurious. Quiet. I was always aware of the stock suspension, not bad aware, just that it was always there. After a day on these springs and dampers, suspension is something I have to focus on to notice. Ride feel is competent but not obvious.

Adjustment of fronts is just a matter of raising the hood and turning the knobs. I left them just clear of inside of strut hole. Rears may be adjustable by braille method, have not tried yet. Hope so. Clicks are 21 rear and 32 front. I am on 5 rear and 8 front. Wheels are 17" Kosei K5's with BFG SC-2 for reference.

I cannot wait for next track session to feel them out at tire limits. Play with adjustments. Will report back if something becomes noteworthy.

So far, most noteworthy is Jerrick. He is going to sell a lot of dampers over here.

Thanks for the note of support.

You are going to have fun with those GT1 coilovers.
When I was testing the GT1 on my car, it literally "re-educated" me about suspension.
The way the GT1 damping adjustment works really play tricks on your mind.

You end up keep dialling the damping stiffer, because while the car get more responsive, the harshness level increase is very "blurred".
The ride is stiffer, and you feel it. But if you hit bumps even during mid corners, it doesn't upset the car.

You end up in this dilemma where your mind are willing to go stiffer and accept the increase harshness because the damping response is so nice.
Then your body tells you that it is "maybe" a little hard and you should dial it down a bit.
So your mind and body fight each other to find a setting because you really can drive the suspension on very stiff setting and live with it.
But you don't need to... however the drive is so nice on stiff setting. It is a funny experience.

Let us know how you do, get a few pics when you get a chance please.

Jerrick

 

[MeisterR]

I am SURE that they are the 'cat's meow' as far as all in one adjustable coil overs go, I'm just still not quite convinced that is the best (OR ONLY) way to go, as Jerrick and the other 'all in one' sellers claim.

The truth is that 1-way adjustable suspension (compression and rebound combined) makes it easy for the driver to adjust.
That is because the damping ratio are pre-determined, so driver use their "butt dyno" to feel if a suspension feel good or not.

Most driver (and I include most of the race driver I work with) have no idea between damping ratio, compression force, or rebound force.
The get into the car, and drive... And good driver will "compensate" for the car short coming by driving differently.

The best example I would say is Neil with the UK FWD time attack.

Last year, he was using the MeisterR coilovers with just heavy springs put on (I think it was 18kg/mm front, 14kg/mm rear, or something along that line).
He never ask me for help, he just threw the harder springs on and went out on track.
In order to get the car to turn, he pretty much lift off oversteer into all the corners to get the car to "turn in".

He ask me for help end of last year, and we re-done the vehicle dynamics for him.
I ask him if he was sitting down as the new setup was 10kg/mm front, 16kg/mm rear.
He was not sure at all about the new springs rate, and I told him to try it out, and if it doesn't suit his driving style then we can work something out.

So while he miss most of the season, he went out a few weeks ago with the MeisterR GT1 suspension, revised aero, and a few other upgrade.
Being the previous lap record holder at 1:27.665, he knock 8 seconds off that lap time with a 1:19.260

I ask him how does the car feel?
And he said it was amazing, and it actually "turn" to where he wants to go now after some damping adjustments.

That is the difference a 1-way adjustable suspension can do.
Because the driver don't really know about suspension, it is just a single knob that works up and down the range.

Could I better the result if I got a vehicle dynamic engineer track side and put a set of 3-way adjustable suspension on the Civic?
Yea, sure... we can improve without a doubt.
But for most driver, that isn't an option, and this is where 1-way suspension shine because they cannot get it perfect, but they also cannot get it far wrong!

Having a set of $10,000 3-way suspension that was setup wrong will yield poorer performance than a 1-way adjustable suspension that was setup "okay".
That is my thought anyways and from my experience.

Jerrick

 

[Siestarider]

I violated my own (new) rules by putting these on before dyno testing. Did a lot of damper and spring research since first tracking the car. Learned a lot, mostly how little I really knew about suspension. Selected GT1 first because Jerrick tried to answer my questions and directed me to other sources when he could not. Second, because Black Art Design sets up suspensions for quick cars. Third, for ease of use and lifetime guarantee, I am running this car another three years for sure, and easy adjustment and rebuild/revalve service is important to me.

Back to dyno testing. Black Art has their own dyno methods that don't match what I understand. So I want a graph for each damper that shows me force vs velocity over the adjustment range. This information helps "pair" dampers front and rear. Not that they are not already paired, but absent data I don't know.

Now I have to either find a way to record on-track frequency, or take them off and dyno test. Traditional on-track shock frequency recording costs more than I want to spend, so I started a thread hoping some of the new solid state acellerometers can be put to this purpose.

The goal is to get to around 65% critical damping for the springs. My butt dyno can't do it for me, I know its ignorant and I suspect it lies too.

For those who want a crash course in dampers and suspension I recommend the Far North Racing site for practical info. http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html

In reality I do not know if Meister products are worth buying. Only by testing can I find out.

 

[MeisterR]

In reality I do not know if Meister products are worth buying. Only by testing can I find out.

Without hard test data, it is hard to say so I do agree with you.

But one thing I can say is that your butt do not lie...
If you drive a car and it feels horrible, you know that it is rubbish no matter what the data say.

I was working with the S2000 on the STR AutoSolo last week.
Lucio was a racing driver so he likes his car stiff, and I keep telling him just soften it a bit and it will be better.
So he have been fine tuning and so on... and in the end he end up roughly about what I say it will be... a softer setup.

Went up to the track last week and pull the fastest time of the day in run 1.
What he think he want, want he actually want, and what he actually used were all different.
But the result speak for itself.

Jerrick

 

[Waterfan]

My butt dyno can't do it for me, I know its ignorant and I suspect it lies too.

Nothing of value to add, just "quoted for awesome"

 

[M-Sport fan]

OK, let's just say that IF I do 'concede', and decide that 'all in one' is OK for my needs/uses, I will go with the Meister Rs GT1s, fair enough??

 

[MeisterR]

OK, let's just say that IF I do 'concede', and decide that 'all in one' is OK for my needs/uses, I will go with the Meister Rs GT1s, fair enough??

What I said is not MeisterR exclusive.
You can replace MeisterR with Bilstein, Ohlins, Penske, etc.

Basically any good performance aftermarket mono-tube damper will run the same 1-way system.
What it does exclude is some of the twin-tube system as they are rebound adjustment only, such as Koni and KW.

As far as 2-way / 3-way, as I have said, it does depend on the knowledge of the driver to setup the suspension.
I encounter a lot of customers who buy into the KW V3 2-way coilovers and find out that they have no idea what they are adjusting.
It doesn't really perform well, and KW have been hopeless in helping them (at least in the UK).

I couldn't help either as I don't have the data on hand, and it is uneconomical to remove their suspension to do a full suspension sweep to know what all the adjustment are doing.
So they end up in a pretty stuck situation where the adjustment are averrable, but they have no guideline to make any adjustments.

I am just stating my experience, because I see too many customer spend their hard earn cash on some parts that are suppose to be really good.
Only to be burn to a crisp when the flag drop and performance is requested... and that is never a good feeling.

Jerrick

 

[M-Sport fan]

Ohlins, Penske and Moton make an 'all in one', rebound and compression adjusted at the same time with one dial, dampers??

 

[MeisterR]

Ohlins, Penske and Moton make an 'all in one', rebound and compression adjusted at the same time with one dial, dampers??

It is more of the principle I am talking about, not really pointing out names of provider.

Ohlins Road and Track DFV suspension is their 1-way suspension.
It is our "Bar" in terms of what we want in a 1-way suspension, and it is what we pitch the GT1 to go up against.

Maybe Penske and Moton wasn't the best example as most of their product line now seems to be aim for higher end race car.
We rebuild Penske and Moton in UK regularly, but all of our customers are race car so they are mostly using 3-way suspension.
I haven't really check their product line in a long time now. We know the owner / engineer of Moton before it was sold to AST.
I am sure Penske and Moton both can custom make 1-way adjustable on request (such as race regulation restriction).

Other bigger name that also provide 1-way adjustable coilovers are people like SACHS and JRZ.

Jerrick

 

[M-Sport fan]

OK, rest assured, that if I go with a 'one way adjustable' coil over system, it will be yours.

 

[Crooked Letta]

It is more of the principle I am talking about, not really pointing out names of provider.

Ohlins Road and Track DFV suspension is their 1-way suspension.
It is our "Bar" in terms of what we want in a 1-way suspension, and it is what we pitch the GT1 to go up against.

Maybe Penske and Moton wasn't the best example as most of their product line now seems to be aim for higher end race car.
We rebuild Penske and Moton in UK regularly, but all of our customers are race car so they are mostly using 3-way suspension.
I haven't really check their product line in a long time now. We know the owner / engineer of Moton before it was sold to AST.
I am sure Penske and Moton both can custom make 1-way adjustable on request (such as race regulation restriction).

Other bigger name that also provide 1-way adjustable coilovers are people like SACHS and JRZ.

Jerrick

Don't forget MCS

On another note I was wondering if you could elaborate on the difference between the CRD+ and GT1? What makes it worth the price difference? Also If the Ohlins R&T were your benchmark(great benchmark BTW) if you plan to track should you go for the GT1's? Or can the CRD+'s handle some track duty as well as in adjustment range and heat dissipation ability?

 

[StuttersC]

I don't think I asked this. What about someone who is bagged and is interested in just your shocks/struts and is looking for better control over an air spring?

 

[MeisterR]

Don't forget MCS

On another note I was wondering if you could elaborate on the difference between the CRD+ and GT1? What makes it worth the price difference? Also If the Ohlins R&T were your benchmark(great benchmark BTW) if you plan to track should you go for the GT1's? Or can the CRD+'s handle some track duty as well as in adjustment range and heat dissipation ability?

To be honest, the ZetaCRD will handle track duty without any problem.
After all, we offer the ZetaCRD to two MSA regulated racing series as a controlled suspension.
For value vs money, it is hard to beat the ZetaCRD.

The GT1 is different in the way the damper are valved and how it react... It has overall better refinement.
It feels different because of the complex internal allow the suspension to it's job better at pretty much everything.
It will be more refined on road, over uneven road surfaces.
It will be more responsive, more consistent, and more durable for track.
Complex CNC internal, variable digressive shims stack, high heat index oil (the highest heat index "MINERAL" oil from Millers - Yes, we use mineral oil because it is better. )

So the ZetaCRD will do most job just fine, the GT1 just do everything better.
For overall value for money, the ZetaCRD will be hard to beat.
For high end value for money, the GT1 are design to do everything well and can step up onto the plate against the "Big Boys".

Jerrick

 

[M-Sport fan]

Have you tested all of these dampers in very COLD conditions as well?

I ask because you mention the use of mineral based oil being "better" for this app, and although I trust Millers Oils implicitly (I have used their NT Racing line fully synthetic motor and gear oils in my last car), I do wonder about how that oil will react in 0*F, or below, ambient temps for those of us for which this car is our ONLY ride, and daily driver in cold winter areas.

 

[LT Berzerker]

^^^ what this guy asked.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[MeisterR]

These are mineral base oil (No not technically synthetic), but there are alot of additive in them.
Some company call mineral base oil with synthetic additive a "synthetic oil", but I don't buy that (I am looking at you Mobile1).

We use this because after long testing as well as having oil engineers involved, we found that mineral oil have better property than synthetic the long as you don't go outside of what the oil can handle.
So for road / track car, mineral hydraulic oil is actually a better choice.
If you have a little tiny damper for a Formula kart, then you may want synthetic on those as there simply aren't enough oil volume inside.

The oil we used was developed for OEM (I think it was Citroen), so it works in all weather condition.
The biggest advantage is it's very high heat index (almost double that of normal high heat index oil), and that mean the viscosity of the oil remain stable through a wider range of temperature.

The long as you stay within the operational range of the damper oil, it will work as intended.
Sometime on icy cold morning at first start up, the damper will feel a bit stiffer because the oil is ice cold.
Give it a mile or two and the oil will have warm up and will perform within specs.

I have never had anyone mention to me that the damper is too cold, and we have sold coilovers to Sweden, Norway, and Finland...
We also have a few customers in Poland, so some MeisterR coilovers have seen some extremely cold temperature and I haven't heard of any complains.

Jerrick