Climate Control Heater Issue

[jayrod1980]

Awesome! What part does the dealer think it is that fixed it?

 

[IrishST]

I've been avoiding this thread because of the watched pot syndrome, but that's awesome that they fixed yours. I still have no call from my dealer so I imagine the call hasn't been made from Ford just yet and since my dealer was given a "do not attempt to fix" mandate from Ford, I doubt they will do anything if I call and say I found a fix on a forum. I'll give them another week or two and if I still have nothing I'll reach out and tell them what I found here and see what they say. I thankfully don't have a daily commute because I work from home so waiting isn't killing me, though I am mounting non-summer tires tomorrow and I won't have that excuse to not drive anymore and that could change things...

Keep us posted on whether it continues to work as well, though it does sound fixed.

 

[DaveG99]

Drove mine tonight and it was working. But when I rolled down the window all of the sudden it started blowing cold air on high, I had it set to 75 the whole time and its about 60 outside.

 

[FORZDA 2]

I'm not putting down your answer, I would just like to understand the difference. Didn't they spray or dip the earlier year cars? Since this is a 2016 issue, what has changed with the paint process?

I already planned on filing all of the grounding points on the car, but some areas are tight, and other than near the battery, where are they?

Ok, here ya go...

The problem is that the current for the 5 VDC signals is very low, in the millivolt range, and it doesn't transfer well through paint. When you inspect the grounds, you will find that the wires and ground terminals are adequate, but Ford has either failed to provide instructions to the paint-prep section of the production line, or they have hired some dipshit workers who are too lazy to tape/mask the contact points for the ground terminals to contact the metal of the chassis. In fact, they have paint all the way down into the threaded bolt holes. These errors in the paint process result in poor connections for all the electronics, especially the small signals.

And to answer the "why only 2016", it isn't only 2016. My 2014 had issues not long after purchase with dash lights and other problems similar to those posted here. After a few trips to the dealer, I decided to fix it myself and was quite successful as always. Ground circuit problems will be varied and intermittent, which is why many have similar problems that seem to go away every once in a while and some are just "hard broke". Ford (and all brand) service technicians are simply parts swappers. Most don't even understand basic electronics, so there is no way they will figure this out.

When you folks having these problems decide that you're ready to have them go away, take responsibility for it and fix it yourself. Maybe Ford will eventually get to the actual cause, but it may take a few more years. Constantly bitching about it on a forum will not speed up the fix.

All of the ground points on the car have this issue, but most are 12VDC at several amps of current and while not immune to the problem, they have an easier time passing the larger currents. Those most relevant to the HVAC issue are identified in post #72. You can purchase the car wiring diagrams manual with a simple google search. I also posted a link somewhere in this thread.

 

[jayrod1980]

Ok, here ya go...

The problem is that the current for the 5 VDC signals is very low, in the millivolt range, and it doesn't transfer well through paint. When you inspect the grounds, you will find that the wires and ground terminals are adequate, but Ford has either failed to provide instructions to the paint-prep section of the production line, or they have hired some dipshit workers who are too lazy to tape/mask the contact points for the ground terminals to contact the metal of the chassis. In fact, they have paint all the way down into the threaded bolt holes. These errors in the paint process result in poor connections for all the electronics, especially the small signals.

And to answer the "why only 2016", it isn't only 2016. My 2014 had issues not long after purchase with dash lights and other problems similar to those posted here. After a few trips to the dealer, I decided to fix it myself and was quite successful as always. Ground circuit problems will be varied and intermittent, which is why many have similar problems that seem to go away every once in a while and some are just "hard broke". Ford (and all brand) service technicians are simply parts swappers. Most don't even understand basic electronics, so there is no way they will figure this out.

When you folks having these problems decide that you're ready to have them go away, take responsibility for it and fix it yourself. Maybe Ford will eventually get to the actual cause, but it may take a few more years. Constantly bitching about it on a forum will not speed up the fix.

All of the ground points on the car have this issue, but most are 12VDC at several amps of current and while not immune to the problem, they have an easier time passing the larger currents. Those most relevant to the HVAC issue are identified in post #72. You can purchase the car wiring diagrams manual with a simple google search. I also posted a link somewhere in this thread.

Thanks for the information. I'm looking online but I don't know what a kick panel is. Is it inside the car or underneath it? The only grounding point immediately apparent to me is the one behind the battery terminal

 

[DaveG99]

tested mine tonight and it worked! Weird that 2 nights in a row it worked fine. Last night it did go crazy when I rolled a window down though.

 

[IrishST]

tested mine tonight and it worked! Weird that 2 nights in a row it worked fine. Last night it did go crazy when I rolled a window down though.

Did the dealer do anything to yours, or is it just randomly working out of nowhere?

My dealer still hasn't contacted me about Ford releasing a fix but I am giving it another week before I reach out to them and ask what's going on.

 

[DaveG99]

Did the dealer do anything to yours, or is it just randomly working out of nowhere?

My dealer still hasn't contacted me about Ford releasing a fix but I am giving it another week before I reach out to them and ask what's going on.

Its been randomly working the past 2 days. Tomorrow morning I will be going to a car meet with my GF in the car so Ill have to use the heat because she gets cold. Its going to be in the 40's. Ill have a good 50 miles to test it out. Ill report back what happens.

 

[siberiankiss]

Ok, here ya go...

The problem is that the current for the 5 VDC signals is very low, in the millivolt range, and it doesn't transfer well through paint. When you inspect the grounds, you will find that the wires and ground terminals are adequate, but Ford has either failed to provide instructions to the paint-prep section of the production line, or they have hired some dipshit workers who are too lazy to tape/mask the contact points for the ground terminals to contact the metal of the chassis. In fact, they have paint all the way down into the threaded bolt holes. These errors in the paint process result in poor connections for all the electronics, especially the small signals.

And to answer the "why only 2016", it isn't only 2016. My 2014 had issues not long after purchase with dash lights and other problems similar to those posted here. After a few trips to the dealer, I decided to fix it myself and was quite successful as always. Ground circuit problems will be varied and intermittent, which is why many have similar problems that seem to go away every once in a while and some are just "hard broke". Ford (and all brand) service technicians are simply parts swappers. Most don't even understand basic electronics, so there is no way they will figure this out.

When you folks having these problems decide that you're ready to have them go away, take responsibility for it and fix it yourself. Maybe Ford will eventually get to the actual cause, but it may take a few more years. Constantly bitching about it on a forum will not speed up the fix.

All of the ground points on the car have this issue, but most are 12VDC at several amps of current and while not immune to the problem, they have an easier time passing the larger currents. Those most relevant to the HVAC issue are identified in post #72. You can purchase the car wiring diagrams manual with a simple google search. I also posted a link somewhere in this thread.

I would like to reiterate that I had a 2014 Fiesta ST for 2 years as a lease with no problems whatsoever. This is NOT consistent across model years. This is also not just "bitching on an Internet forum".

 

[jayrod1980]

Well, the major change for 2016 models is Sync3. Barring a huge batch of bad air conditioners, if the issue is grounding, perhaps the two systems share a circuit.

Regardless, we will know if it's grounding after I finish eliminating the paint from the ground points. Regarding the kick panels, I'm still not sure if I have to rip up my interior to get to those points. I don't want to disturb any clips inside the car if I don't have to.

 

[jayrod1980]

Also, Siberiankiss, is the problem confirmed gone for good now after those tests? Did the dealership scratch or any way bust up your interior with the fix?

 

[FORZDA 2]

Well, the major change for 2016 models is Sync3. Barring a huge batch of bad air conditioners, if the issue is grounding, perhaps the two systems share a circuit.

Regardless, we will know if it's grounding after I finish eliminating the paint from the ground points. Regarding the kick panels, I'm still not sure if I have to rip up my interior to get to those points. I don't want to disturb any clips inside the car if I don't have to.

The kick panels are the plastic covers at the left drivers and right passengers feet. If you get down in the footwell with a flashlight you may can see the ground points just behind/above the kick panel. It is easier to remove the bolt and clean all the paint it you remove the panels. I strongly recommend purchasing the wiring manual for the car. There are many splices in the various wires that you may want to know about as well. You seem like a smart "learning" guy rather than a simpleton like so many youngsters on this forum, so if you pm me your email or phone number I'll reply with mine and I can talk you through some of the work if you get stuck. It takes way too much work to answer in forum posts. However I will respond to your questions but not in as much detail.

 

[FORZDA 2]

I would like to reiterate that I had a 2014 Fiesta ST for 2 years as a lease with no problems whatsoever. This is NOT consistent across model years. This is also not just "bitching on an Internet forum".

It is a process problem with Ford motor company and it applies to all the vehicles that were not properly painted. In these types of problems it may boil down to one or two workers who don't follow the work spec directions. Two cars rolled out right next to each other can react in totally different ways when the signal grounds are painted. It isn't black and white at the functional level but it is at the root cause.

 

[jayrod1980]

I haven't had a chance to drive the car yet but I got to some of the grounds. I got the negative battery terminal ground, the two behind the battery, the one under the car on the drivers side near the wheel well, the visible on on the drivers side kick panel inside, and the one located by the passenger headlight.

I'd like to get to the ones mentioned inside the car but I want to know which panels to remove before I go nuts tearing my car apart.

Edit: I pulled out the glove box and found a ground in there. I sanded it (the best I could tell) to bare metal, applied dielectric grease, and tightened it back down. According to what I could find online, the AC uses ground 6 which I can't find. Perhaps it's that ground by the fuse box since the instrument cluster is near by and the blower and all that are in that area too. Excited to see tomorrow if it makes a difference.

 

[jayrod1980]

Tested the car out... Starts stronger, feels more powerful anecdotally, but problem persists.

 

[IrishST]

Awesome of you to do the testing, and it sucks that it didn't help. I was a dealer tech for ~5 years and while I saw my fair share of strange issues I never personally saw grounding cause something like this so I wasn't confident in that, but hell at this point I'm willing to put hope in anything. I'm hoping [MENTION=4056]siberiankiss[/MENTION] comes back to give us an update on if the issue is truly fixed or if it came back. Also the status of their dash considering how much interior breakdown is involved with changing out the entire evaporator core and housing... last time I personally had to do it was on a Mazda6 and I had to literally remove the entire dash and center console and I'm so not excited about having my dealer do that to my car.

 

[jayrod1980]

With all of the hard plastic pieces you can bet it will get scratched to hell and rattle ever after. I'm hoping it's something easier like a bad relay or computer issue. You have to isolate whether the problem is attributable to 2016 changes, bad batch of parts, different vendor etc

 

[Brura22]

I have a 2016 on the way from the factory this week... worried about this.

 

[siberiankiss]

After a week back with the car, it's still working perfectly.

Also, with as many repair attempts there were I'm amazed that I can't tell that anything has been done to the interior of the car. Thus far not a single rattle, and there was no visible damage anywhere. Hopefully the rattles don't sneak their way in over time.

 

[IrishST]

I had to go to the dealer today to handle a situation with my payoff on my trade still not being received and when that was handled I stopped by service to ask my writer if he heard anything. Nope, nothing, but "he's still checking up regularly". I told him I knew of a user on a forum that confirmed their dealer fixed it by replacing the entire evaporator housing and core and he told me that until Ford says it, they can't do anything because they were explicitly instructed to not work on the car and any attempted repairs are more than likely going to be denied warranty coverage.

So excited. Truly.