Keeping it simple with Big turbo plans in the future...

[MikeyTwins]

Hi guys... I am trying to keep it as simple as possible and was planning on going full stage 3 from Cobb for now until I get a bigger turbo about a year from now... My question is... Is the Cobb hardware all good enough to support say a gt28 size turbo in the future? Mainly worried about the intercooler being too small?

 

[2006ser]

Buy a cyborg set up try that out talk to sour skittle

 

[Hijinx]

On a GT28 ATP made 300 or so on stock everything, IIRC.

 

[Sourskittle]

On a GT28 ATP made 300 or so on stock everything, IIRC.

All ATP's cars used ATP's downpipe, intercooler, and hotpipe at the least. The true mod list of the cars were never really disclosed.
Although... 300whp after BPU with a GTX28 sounds about right, on pump gas. (Basic performance upgrades).

 

[Sourskittle]

Also.... Its just my opinion and people debate it, but to me, none of the "stock replacement" intercoolers are upto the task of any upgraded turbo. Sure... They help. Sure they are much better than stock. But DHM big intercooler and crash bar is still the only opinion that makes sense to me, unless your on a stock stock turbo.

 

[bam88]

What about the 2J Racing intercooler? Looks like is should support some decent flow.

 

[BoostBumps]

What about the 2J Racing intercooler? Looks like is should support some decent flow.

Surprisingly, 2J's FMIC is really not the largest "direct fit" currently available as they claim (but in all fairness they also made this statement over a year ago!)

2J Racing Core Dimensions: 22" x 8.25" x 2.25" (Volume 408.4 cu in / ( Front Surface Area: 181.5 sq in)

http://www.2j-racing.com/summer-sale-ford-fiesta/2jr-full-race-intercooler.html

Note that there are other direct replacements available such as CP-E's which have larger volume and same front surface area

CP-E Core Dimensions: 29" ? 6.25" ? 3" (Volume: 543.75 cu in) / (Front Surface Area: 181.25 sq in)

http://cp-e.com/webstore/product/ford-fiesta-st-δcore-front-mount-intercooler/

[HR][/HR]
2J Racing FMIC (available ~Oct 2015)





[HR][/HR]

CP-E FMIC

 

[coler12331]

This is the best looking fmic I've seen for the fist

 

[Izzy]

Mishimoto J-Line still has them beat with 594 in. core volume.

 

[bam88]

Mishimoto J-Line still has them beat with 594 in. core volume.

J-line is great and all, my only draw back is appearance and seeing the end tank connections. I like something that fills the whole gap.

 

[BoostBumps]

J-line is great and all, my only draw back is appearance and seeing the end tank connections. I like something that fills the whole gap.

Agreed....IMHO its a bit too thick and comes too close to face of radiator and more importantly doesn't take full advantage of front surface area available....

J-Line Core Dimensions: 22.0" x 7.2" x 3.75" (Core Volume: 594 cu in) / (Front Surface Area: 158.4 sq in)

I would still prefer to have CP-E's if I had to choose between the two...

CP-E Core Dimensions: 29" ? 6.25" ? 3" (Core Volume: 543.75 cu in) / (Front Surface Area: 181.25 sq in)

 

[ian.j]

Also.... Its just my opinion and people debate it, but to me, none of the "stock replacement" intercoolers are upto the task of any upgraded turbo. Sure... They help. Sure they are much better than stock. But DHM big intercooler and crash bar is still the only opinion that makes sense to me, unless your on a stock stock turbo.

It all depends on what climate you live in. stock replacement is more than enough for colder climates

 

[MikeyTwins]

I live in NY

 

[Sourskittle]

If you buy a cyborg or big turbo, AND YOU DON'T buy the largest intercooler option we have; you will regret it, and sell the smaller one for the bigger one sooner or later. Ask me how I know. [MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION] what's your opinion on this ? Lmao.

 

[frankiefiesta]

I'm going with 2J race intercooler.

 

[BoostBumps]

If you buy a cyborg or big turbo, AND YOU DON'T buy the largest intercooler option we have; you will regret it, and sell the smaller one for the bigger one sooner or later. Ask me how I know. [MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION] what's your opinion on this ?

Hey SS...Is this in reference to the Panda IC you had installed and had mentioned awhile ago that you weren't very pleased with its performance? I think Hijinx also had a Panda IC originally installed as well?

Panda IC Core Dimensions: 6" X 22" X 3.5" (Volume: 462 cu in) / (Front Surface Area: 132 sq in)

 

[Hijinx]

Yes, I had the first Panda cooler. It definitely won't keep up well with the Cyborg. I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure it's hotter than my GTX. If you're upgrading the turbo, I suggest the Race cooler from DHM or the Mishimoto. 2JR isn't as big as it seems...it's just tall.

 

[bam88]

Yes, I had the first Panda cooler. It definitely won't keep up well with the Cyborg. I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure it's hotter than my GTX. If you're upgrading the turbo, I suggest the Race cooler from DHM or the Mishimoto. 2JR isn't as big as it seems...it's just tall.

With height comes surface area which is one key factor in cooling the air charge.

 

[BoostBumps]

Yes, I had the first Panda cooler. It definitely won't keep up well with the Cyborg. I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure it's hotter than my GTX. If you're upgrading the turbo, I suggest the Race cooler from DHM or the Mishimoto. 2JR isn't as big as it seems...it's just tall.

Thx Hijinx...

Do you think the cooling issue might also be because the Cyborg turbo usually is run at much much higher boost levels (i.e. ~28psi) to achieve higher HP levels? Those very high boost levels will in turn also sharply raise compressor temps which I would think can greatly effect cooling efficiency...

I guess my question for you guys is what if a more efficient / medium turbo upgrade was installed (say a GT25x for instance) that requires much less boost (22~24psi) resulting in much lower compressor air temps to achieve the same power as a 28psi Cyborg does then would a much larger race FMIC still be needed? I don't have quite as lofty goals as some others do and if I can install a GT25x with peak boost at 22~24psi to achieve 260whp than a very large race FMIC might not be necessary?

 

[Sourskittle]

Its not that the panda cooler is bad. Its not. Its a TR6 treadstone core. More than one factory fitment option we have is based off the same treadstone core ( just with much nicer endtanks ). Its that the intercooler size, IN THIS CAR, is outmatched IN THIS CAR. The ECU in the car, and to some degree, the tune is responsible for this ( with good reason ), but the ecu takes cat/charge air temps very seriously. And this is a fact.... THIS MOTOR REQUIRES BOOST. BOOST MEANS HEAT. I've seen B16 or B18 honda engines make crazy power with big turbos with less than 20psi. But to make good power; the fist requires no less than 20psi AT ALL TIMES. That means boost, which means heat. Heat/CAT/charge air temps the ecu really dials the car back. YOU CAN ADJUST THIS setting in the ecu,, but the factory setting is actually pretty good. If you change it, you may find you can make good power on 70 degree dry days fairly easy. But you may also find that when the temp goes upto 85degrees your tune is now getting knock corrections, which effects your power GREATLY.

There is only one fix. A bigger intercooler with not just more compacity, not just good flowing endtanks or good flowing core, but what matters big time.... Frontal area. We can't go any wider really, so going taller is the only option. DHM is the only option we have at the moment. Russ has never saved me a nickel,'he's never done me a favor (other than build us this option, which is more than enough ), and the last 10 times I've texted him in the last 6months, I've gotten no response. I calk it up to him being crazy busy, but the point is... I have no dog in that race. I'm just trying to give my idea on why, and give my opinion. Even a stock turbo would make the best power with the dhm cooler, although, I agree; its a silly mod on the stock turbo.

If I was buying a cooler, and the direct fits were my only option because.... Well.... Hell, I don't know why. Dhm cooler and crash bad is 100% reversible. But if I had to choose one, I'd pick the CP-E if cost was not an option. If cost was an issue, I'd be looking into that cobb knock-off that is sold on the UK-ebay. Its like $260 shipped and looks to be 100% like a cobb.

My panda gets cooked. My climate is the worst in the country in the summer. I'm always on the borderline of power vs charge temps. E45 goes a long way. But when its 90 degrees outside and your chrage temps are at 125-127 degrees AT SPEED ( no heat soak ), that's higher than the ECU wants to see. It also creates a tuning issue ( its just one more thing to balance ).

People would say, "well, in a perfect world, you wouldn't have to rely on race gas/E40 to make power or to keep the car making constant power no matter the temps". Well... The DHM race cooler IS THAT PERFECT WORLD. And I'd just hate to see even one more person buy a $600 intercooler only to find out later that they should have just through 2 more benji's down and did it correctly, once, the first time. Instead... They sell a $600 IC for $400, then have to add $400 of new money to it. And that's not even counting the re-tune, or the physical labor of installing 2 different coolers.

Did I mention the DHM cooler combo adds almost no weight to the front of the car? These nice mistu, panda type coolers are all good and even fairly priced. But they are not light compared to the stock cooler. The weight saved by replacing the tin foil, yet somehow heavy crash bar is offset by the race cooler. It really is a win win win cooler, if you can afford it.

Levels coolers are very high quality build wise, but I don't think anyone should ever buy one, its just too small. I really wish that dude would build something similar to DHM race cooler.

I admit. I'd like to try the CP-E,'lol. Its a great LOOKING design.

Bamm !!! I haven't rambled on like that for a while !!! Lol