Stratified aux fuel system for the Fiesta ST

[pwnall1337]

Hey guys,

I pinged stratified to inquire about porting their focus st aux fuel system to the fiesta and they expressed interest in doing so, but lack a test car. I'm not a good candidate for this as I'm not nearly as car savvy as some people on here.

We do have intentions to do that eventually, however, we currently do not have a Fiesta to work with.
Would you be interested in helping us out with this? We would need a template of your throttle body, and some pictures of the manifold / bay area where the kit would go.

Would anyone be willing to help them?

feedback@stratifiedauto.com

Email was from Alejandro Buse

I have a gtx2860r on the way and I'd love to be able to run 360 whp on e85

 

[rodmoe]

Rumor has it there is one in development at DHM also

 

[Sourskittle]

The fiesta intake manifold is like $40.

 

[pwnall1337]

The fiesta intake manifold is like $40.

Sounds like you want to volunteer . Imagine a world where you're running the cyborg on e85 with all bolt ons.

 

[Sourskittle]

I actually did volunteer like 4 months ago, lol. The offer was something like, "find 8-10 people to buy it, and pay retail price for one and we'll do one for the fiesta".... To which I smiled and decided to wait for Russ/DHM to release his.

I love Alex and all, but being they don't really deal in fiesta's, they are disadvantaged in the fist market. But that doesn't mean the first customer should have to do the foot work for their product/profit without may hooking me up for what it cost to build or slightly more.

And the $40 point is... While we need this and its awesome, the profit margin is pretty big. They can buy their own $40 intake, lol.

 

[Hijinx]

I actually did volunteer like 4 months ago, lol. The offer was something like, "find 8-10 people to buy it, and pay retail price for one and we'll do one for the fiesta".... To which I smiled and decided to wait for Russ/DHM to release his.

I love Alex and all, but being they don't really deal in fiesta's, they are disadvantaged in the fist market. But that doesn't mean the first customer should have to do the foot work for their product/profit without may hooking me up for what it cost to build or slightly more.

And the $40 point is... While we need this and its awesome, the profit margin is pretty big. They can buy their own $40 intake, lol.

They'll make something like a 1k% profit considering they'll sell it for about $400+.

 

[Sourskittle]

Straified fuel system is $400 !!? If that's the case, then I need to stfu and help get this rolling, lol. I thought it was like $850-$1000.

 

[dyn085]

People have the tendency to forget that there is a lot more involved in creating a valid product besides just buying a certain part and having the product appear. Besides sourcing the physical info, there's design/CAD work, prototype parts building/testing, systems integration...all with the additional expense of labor and materials (which includes all of the machines/tools/materials used) on top of that. This is not a part that would have a huge demand in many communities, let alone the niche-of-niche market FiST. The majority of people that want that sort of power are in the FoST community to begin with, and the majority in the FiST community just won't try to push the boundaries to the point that this would be required. Part of recouping cost comes with the projected sales because it's significantly harder to recoup costs on something that only ever sells 10 units compared to something that sells 10,000.

Besides, that '$40 part' is completely useless if they don't have the supporting information/measurements that come along with all of the necessary information involving everything else surrounding the one part/system.

With that being said, there definitely will be a handful of people that will need/want this solution. I have a high amount of respect for Stratified because I have watched them freely give sound advice and help in the FoST community more than I can recall-even when that's helping members that haven't even purchased anything with them. They are a great group of guys that are extremely knowledgeable, so I went ahead and contacted one of my friends that works with them to offer up any assistance that they might need.

 

[Hijinx]

Straified fuel system is $400 !!? If that's the case, then I need to stfu and help get this rolling, lol. I thought it was like $850-$1000.

How much is the FoST setup? I thought it was like $500 or so.

Anyway, dyn did bring up a sensible point. They do have to do the R&D sense they're starting from scratch, which costs money.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I think SS hit it right on the head, I have dealt with helping get parts made for many cars over many years.

Latest case in point:

I hired DHM to develop the ERF turbo kit for our cars and sent him the EFR I already had bought for a DIY build and a few other parts for it.
Now I have the first kit waiting for me to finish the install when I get over a nasty bug.
I got the complete kit which was well beyond the initial plan and it is incredible.
I got a nice discount and the rights to sell it for a bit less than they do.

That is a very very good way to run a business and how I did things in my 15 years of business ownership.

 

[Sourskittle]

How much is the FoST setup? I thought it was like $500 or so.

Anyway, dyn did bring up a sensible point. They do have to do the R&D sense they're starting from scratch, which costs money.

I agree is cost money for R&D, but asking someone else to do it for you without a discount is pretty rough...

I think the fost setup is $8500-$1000 area. Which is not a bad deal. And Alex has given me a little advice myself, great people over there. But to expect someone like me to supply the test car, data, time, and feedback as well as find 5-10 other people up front to buy into the product was kind rough-er. But the other company that is developing a fost fuel system as well also gave me the same answer ( not DHM as they are doing the labor themselves, hence they don't need me or to give me a break on pricing ).

I think the real issue isn't the companies. Its the "see a need, fill a need". Who REALLY on this forum needs extra fuel ? 4 guys CURRENTLY? Maybe 5 ? That's not really a "need". The "need" may come along ( like mentioned in Rod's thread, "if you build it they will come"), but they have to CREATE THE NEED, its not going to create its self then wait for you.

DHM is creating that NEED right now. Not only is Russ creating a need while proving there is one, he's creating the solution, not asking someone else to do the actual work at retail cost, then reaping the profit.

If I cared about developing a fuel system, I'd be buying old used motorcycle power commander's up on craigslist as they can control common injectors based on map signal, then I'd do the R&D myself and rep the benefits myself.

I surely hope Russ reps the benefits in the long run, as he's doing what every other company was scared to do, which is invest in this platform, and in a lesser way, investing in us.

 

[dyn085]

Hey guys,

I pinged stratified....

I agree is cost money for R&D, but asking someone else to do it for you without a discount is pretty rough...

Note the order of events and whom asked whom. Stratified didn't reach out to us with a need; we reached out to them. There's a big difference in them wanting to create a product and contacting us versus us needing a product and contacting them.

I've done plenty of product prototyping in this and other communities, and sometimes that has led to discounts and other times it hasn't. I never 'expect' one and am always grateful when someone wants to assist the community, even if my help doesn't result in a discount of any sort. Furthermore, I don't let prototyping affect my 'hype' or recommendations for a product, especially when I get a discount. I only recommend products that I feel are superior if there is a way to support that with data, and anyone that has seen admittance of parts that outperform what is installed on my vehicle should understand that. If a product isn't able to be substantiated with data and my opinion favors whatever part I was discounted, I can assure you that the discount had zero effect on that. On the flip side, I'm never surprised when someone that hypes products admits to receiving 'nice' discounts.

Tl;dr-It's ridiculous to reach out to a vendor and then be upset that no discount is openly offered based upon our request, regardless of whether they need your help or not.

Not all relationships are based on money, and if that's someone's driving factor I can't necessarily blame those that are upset for not getting a discount. Like I said, I offered to help them free of charge simply to help both them and the community, so if you don't want to help someone because you're not 'making' anything on it that's ok. Big turbo kits have been available for over a year and just like it was stated, there are only four or five people on here that have gone that route-and I don't think that that was due to not having an aux fuel setup. I hope either Stratified or DHM or both come out with a great product because it will help with the progression of the platform.

 

[Sourskittle]

"Help" is one thing. But when you don't even have a car to look under the hood of, how much is "help" and how much is "doing it for you". You just really need a car in front of you, in your hands. Straitfied doesn't have that.

Russ has had Rod's car for WEEKS tuning it and building it on hand. How long would that process that via email? About 3 decades ?

Actually.... We can take 1 of those 4-5 names off that list. I don't need a throttle body injection setup... #1 while its 6,000 degrees in Florida already, fuel isn't as much of an issue. #2 I have other plans for winter and when I move to a bigger turbo ( not GT/GTX or EFR ).

 

[dyn085]

If they were so inclined I'm sure they could go rent one, but why do that if there are other alternatives? Again, if the need was there to require them to come to such an immediate solution then I'm sure they would go that route-but it's not. They have someone that is competent and can get them accurate information, so why go a more costly route?

Comparing an aux-fuel setup to a big-turbo build isn't exactly accurate, and I would assume you would have already known that. The FiST is such a niche community that there won't be a 'massive' amount of support anyways, so why be upset at anyone that tries? Without competition there is little innovation and can lead to price-gouging, so why complain?

The fanboi-ism is too high in this community.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Reconsidering my earlier post....

With how few of these cars exist, the time involved in developing something for a limited number of sales that can be expected, Russ is a real enthusiast far more than a businessman, we are damn lucky to have him do all he is for this car and for us.

I have checked into getting us wheels made, ultra low weight, roll formed, great cost....with just a simple bolt patten change, minimum from anybody was 100 sets, huge deposit, 6 months minimum wait, most just said no

I have also designed some little but very functional low cost parts and sent the designs to companies for free and they have not produced them.

I became a vendor and starting working on getting them and bigger things made but old injuries and reminding myself I am retired and setting up to go full time RVing, wonderful wife and grandchildren waiting for me to get it all going, I had to back down.

As for 4x108 wheels you are lucky to have PCA on board!

 

[dyn085]

This is a wheel thread now.

Generally speaking, most wheels can be ordered as blanks and custom drilled-for those that are seriously interested. Yet again we're in a similar situation where it doesn't make any sense to manufacture a ton of product that has such a minimal customer base-it's just not a smart decision.

In that regard, I would actually state that Russ is a smart businessman as opposed to calling him an enthusiast (though I'm sure he is because no business starts without one). He had the decision to focus on the FoST, a community with tons of support and plenty of loyalties, or the FiST, a community with less support and fewer established 'heavy hitters'. To me, that's just a smart business decision.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Russ/DHM continues creating product and does well in doing so. Like I've said, I don't fanboi nor do I root for monopolies-the more product and competition the better, both for members and the platform itself. Russ has shown very positive qualities in not only creating products but also in being able to positively discuss his products and provide supporting data accordingly.

Whether I think highly of Russ (or any other product manufacturer for that matter) is irrelevant when it comes to product testing-I'm still going to challenge users to provide third-party data, whether they are nicely-discounted advertisers or not.

 

[pwnall1337]

I NEED extra fuelling. There's no way I'll be satisfied or "stratified" lol! with 300 whp on 93. I want 350 whp on e85 or more! My gtx has been purchased and I have huge plans for this little car.

 

[rodmoe]

Now that I am done hogging all his time I am hoping Russ can whip out this as he has the needed parts for research as well as they do have a FiST shop car as well as their FoST.. win win I think.. but then I am ok with learning my car all over again till it is available.

 

[pwnall1337]

[MENTION=9]rodmoe[/MENTION], I just noticed your sig. Curious why you went with the gtx2867r vs the gtx2860r. Also your clutch. Was the stock clutch slipping?

 

[rodmoe]

The turbo was on the recommendation of DHM after our tests and trials with the EFR and some long what if conversations on my end with Russ. It was the best option for where I think I want the car to be in the future. And the Clutch I wanted to be ahead of the curve also if and that was and is a Big IF the stock unit would not handle the new power which I bet it could.. So the 10 lb flywheel vs the factory 24-25 lb unit help my quick rev thinking that much weight off the crank and the tuning to make up for the often talked about rev drop on light weight flywheels on small turbo engines.. I think given enough time there isn't anything that can't be tuned around with these car in the right hands.. Def not my hands for tuning ...