Wow, the "summer only" warning about stock tires is for real!

[XR650R]

They are actually not too bad in the cold and DRY, but for the conditions which you face there now, they are downright DEADLY!!

Yeah. I'm driving the beater until it warms up. The Fiesta has less than 1000 miles on it. Not driving it until it warms up and the roads are clear. This weather isn't good for breaking it in.

 

[Intuit]

Are others driving their summer tires (without pushing it too hard) in sub-40 degree weather with no problems? ....................................... .

I waited until the imminent threat of the first snow flake to switch. Winter tires wear fast. The stock Summer tires aren't bad in cold weather for the simple fact that traction remains very predictable. As long as the tires are consistent, you can adjust your driving to compensate. Icy conditions I wouldn't risk it. But simply cold and dry, no problem. The torque of a turbo means slower acceleration because of a fair amount of (one) wheel spin but the behavior is totally predictable. Stopping hasn't been a problem either but the number of times I quick stop in a year can probably counted up on half a hand. I typically use starting traction to gauge stopping performance. If it proves easy to spin that wheel(s), then I'll adjust my driving accordingly.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I waited until the imminent threat of the first snow flake to switch. Winter tires wear fast.

^^^THIS!!

Even faster yet when the temps climb above 35*F.

Once I actually invest in winter wheels/tires, I wish that I had access to a lift, so that I could change out QUICKLY right before any real snow is supposed to hit, and then quickly change back to the PS AS/3s (or whichever all seasons I have on the factory wheels at that time), and SAVE the co$tly winter snows, as I would probably spring for the Nokian R2s, which run more than most premium summer 200 tread wear gumballs ) once it is gone.

IF this makes me have to replace the lugs/lug nuts more often due to wear, then so be it (a good excuse to install some ARPs ).

 

[Capri to ST]

Has anyone who has driven their summer tires in temps below 45 had any damage to the tires, like cracking as described in the Tire Rack article? I certainly haven't.

 

[Intuit]

No. Those are probably extreme cases, old tires, or/and very cheap ones. (Predictable) wheel slip can be a little fun however, so expect that they may wear a little faster in cold weather.

 

[BRGT350]

I found that Blizzaks wear very fast in warm and dry conditions, while my Generals look brand new after 3 years of use. Of course, Blizzaks are also far better on ice which means they have a very soft compound while my Generals aren't as good on ice, but last longer. I install my winter tires in late October and take them off in late April or May. I still get freezing temps in late spring and I have been caught out by random spring snow events or freezing events that make summer tires scary. In the past 18 years of using winter tires, I have only worn out one set of Blizzaks. The rest were sold with the cars they were used on after 4-5 years. The Blizzaks were the exception. My dad used them on a 2002 SVT Focus, a 2003 SVT Focus, I took delivery of them when I bought his 2003 SVT Focus, and I used them on the Focus, the 2010 EU Fiesta, and my brother used them on one of his Focuses. I bet they were 10 years old by the time we decided they were too old and worn out. During my vehicle ownership time frame, I typically go through 2-3 sets of summer tires and have never replaced the winter set.

With my Yokohama S-Drives, I kept them in the garage for the winter. The winter of 2015-2016, the garage dropped below freezing for almost 2 weeks. I noticed that when I put the S-Drives back on the car in the spring, they had become very hard, noisy, and lost a lot of their grip. I wonder if the cold temp exposure ruined the tires. In previous years, the tires were stored in a heated area and never got close to freezing temps. I lost that storage area and would just stack the summer tires in the garage. For my Michelin Pilots, I put them in my basement where they can stay warm. My dad has also experienced summer tires becoming hard, cracked, and rapid degradation when he used to have a few of his cars in a store-and-lock that was unheated. He remodeled his garage so he can get all of his cars in there and it has it's own climate control system. He noticed that his summer tires last longer and don't get hard and cracked. I can't say for sure that cold is the reason, but that is two of us that have noticed problems with our summer tires when stored in the cold.

 

[Intuit]

Based on my experiences with a set, if you're my worst enemy, I highly recommend Yokohamas.

 

[BRGT350]

Based on my experiences with a set, if you're my worst enemy, I highly recommend Yokohamas.

I had been using Yokohama sine 1999 on a lot of my cars without having any problems, but those S-Drives turned to lubed-up rocks after a few summers. There was plenty of tread left, but no grip in any condition. They were also so loud that people were commenting on my YouTube videos that I must have a failed wheel bearing.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I had been using Yokohama sine 1999 on a lot of my cars without having any problems, but those S-Drives turned to lubed-up rocks after a few summers. There was plenty of tread left, but no grip in any condition. They were also so loud that people were commenting on my YouTube videos that I must have a failed wheel bearing.

Hearing this, I am so glad I did not go with the S.drives, and listened to my own thoughts about them being too 'pedestrian' in performance for my taste, when looking for something in the somewhat rare 215/40-17 size.

 

[STArk]

How much would a LSD help us out?

I just ordered steelies from JEG's for $42 each and Blizzak WS80's from Walmart for $91 a pop.

 

[BRGT350]

I highly doubt an LSD would help you when using summer tires in the winter, assuming that is what you are asking. The tire design and compound are the issue. I have never driven a FWD car with an LSD in the winter, so I can't confirm it would make a difference with winter tires. From friends that drove a MkI Focus RS with a factory LSD, they said the car was horribly difficult to drive over bumpy surfaces or if the road was wet. Now, that car had none of the electrical systems that our ST's have to correct for torque steer or stability. Everyone that I know with a FWD LSD car don't drive them in the winter as they tend to be track or autocross only cars. My Mustang has a clutch style limited slip differential (modified factory Traction-Lok differential) and when that breaks traction, it instantly wants to go for a spin. That car hasn't seen a winter since 1994.

 

[STArk]

I highly doubt an LSD would help you when using summer tires in the winter, assuming that is what you are asking. The tire design and compound are the issue. I have never driven a FWD car with an LSD in the winter, so I can't confirm it would make a difference with winter tires. From friends that drove a MkI Focus RS with a factory LSD, they said the car was horribly difficult to drive over bumpy surfaces or if the road was wet. Now, that car had none of the electrical systems that our ST's have to correct for torque steer or stability. Everyone that I know with a FWD LSD car don't drive them in the winter as they tend to be track or autocross only cars. My Mustang has a clutch style limited slip differential (modified factory Traction-Lok differential) and when that breaks traction, it instantly wants to go for a spin. That car hasn't seen a winter since 1994.

I didn't necessarily mean with summer tires. I'm going to be running winter tires.

Here's my thought process: when it slips it's basically one-wheel drive with the open differential, however, with a LSD, I would think it will lock up during slippage and allow power to pass through two tires instead one, increasing traction.

 

[BRGT350]

your thought process isn't wrong, and as long as there is full traction, you would be correct. However, having full traction all the time in the winter is rare. With a RWD LSD setup, once the tries lose traction, the axle quickly moves laterally and you get to go for a spin. On a FWD car, you would get massive understeer as both tires break lose and move the front perpendicular to the intended direction. You would have far worse torque steer as well.

 

[M-Sport fan]

your thought process isn't wrong, and as long as there is full traction, you would be correct. However, having full traction all the time in the winter is rare. With a RWD LSD setup, once the tries lose traction, the axle quickly moves laterally and you get to go for a spin. On a FWD car, you would get massive understeer as both tires break lose and move the front perpendicular to the intended direction. You would have far worse torque steer as well.

So, in your opinion, on snow and ice (given the proper winter tires), we ARE better off with the factory 'nannies'/'electronic diff' on, but without an aftermarket LSD (of ANY type) than with those nannies OFF and an LSD installed?

 

[BRGT350]

For best snow and ice traction, I believe the factory traction control systems with proper tires is better than a mechanical LSD. The sensors and computer processes information faster than we can and will adjust the power output better. Even F1 drivers are faster with traction control and they can process vehicle inputs far better than we can. If you are building a track car that will never see rain, snow, or ice, then I would be using a LSD. I would also make sure I have plenty of instruction on how to handle the car with an LSD since it does change how the car will corner and react when traction is lost. While we all think we are the best drivers on the planet, the truth is that we aren't. Sticking with what the factory designed is the best option.

 

[M-Sport fan]

OK, THANKS!

I think that I am barely 'average' as far as driving skills go (WHY I asked the above questions).

Although I do think that my reaction times ARE shorter than average for someone my age due to NO alcohol, or 'recreational' drug use at all during my 62+ years on this planet.

 

[Olephart]

OK, THANKS!

I think that I am barely 'average' as far as driving skills go (WHY I asked the above questions).

Although I do think that my reaction times ARE shorter than average for someone my age due to NO alcohol, or 'recreational' drug use at all during my 62+ years on this planet.

Well based on that, I think I need to remember to start braking for stop lights maybe a quarter mile away.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Well based on that, I think I need to remember to start braking for stop lights maybe a quarter mile away.

LOL!

 

[Intuit]

Remember when IBM's Deep Blue took the stage in Chess against Kasparov? If the Tesla and Googles of the world really want to capture press and attention, they need to begin entering their autonomous driving vehicles into human auto races. (It would be interesting to watch them get creamed over several races LoL.)

We should reiterate that the e-nannies are nothing but an aid. They aren't by any means an enabler, or substitute for "common sense" driving. They won't prevent people from entering a corner too fast or prevent a rear-ender.

.............. NO alcohol, or 'recreational' drug use at all during my 62+ years on this planet.

Just to note, this comes out in places other than just the road.

 

[Capri to ST]

Has anyone actually had damage to summer tires from driving them in cold conditions? A tire rack article posted earlier in this thread said that could happen. If so,

1- What was the damage?
2= How cold was it?