worried if 'single mass flywheel' might be reliability factor for transmission wear

[ronmcdon]

Hi this is somewhat a longer story, so please bear with me.

recently had trouble with my transmission with a little over 26k on my Fiesta St. Reverse gear just keeps popping out and I knew I was in trouble. Read on here and other threads, as well as consulting with mechanic my transmission is pretty much toast. That's okay and ordered a Clarke setup recently with a new wavetrack lsd. I already do have a wavetrack on my old transmission, but after labor costs are said and done, I figure best to get a new lsd.

My main concern at this point is whether my aftermarket Xclutch and 'single mass' flywheel might be reliability issues. So far the clutch/flywheel hasn't given me any reason for concern. Only quirk is that I get a slight humming sound when the car is on throttle. The part has been on my car for 20k miles give or take. I am considering whether or not to go with a new ST200 clutch and oem dual mass flywheel. Wish it were not so expensive, but it's definitely cheaper than replacing the transmission again and the 2k labor cost to drop the transmission alone.

I don't ever anticipate getting more power than say a S280 turbo on a pump gas, so the ST200 clutch might be perfect. I do try to take the car for track use here and there however.

what are some thoughts here? Sorry for the convoluted situation. Thanks in advance!

 

[Intuit]

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/psa-do-not-use-motul-in-your-fiesta-st.19754/post-342457

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/transmission-clunk.28054/post-464802

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Hi this is somewhat a longer story, so please bear with me.

recently had trouble with my transmission with a little over 26k on my Fiesta St. Reverse gear just keeps popping out and I knew I was in trouble. Read on here and other threads, as well as consulting with mechanic my transmission is pretty much toast. That's okay and ordered a Clarke setup recently with a new wavetrack lsd. I already do have a wavetrack on my old transmission, but after labor costs are said and done, I figure best to get a new lsd.

My main concern at this point is whether my aftermarket Xclutch and 'single mass' flywheel might be reliability issues. So far the clutch/flywheel hasn't given me any reason for concern. Only quirk is that I get a slight humming sound when the car is on throttle. The part has been on my car for 20k miles give or take. I am considering whether or not to go with a new ST200 clutch and oem dual mass flywheel. Wish it were not so expensive, but it's definitely cheaper than replacing the transmission again and the 2k labor cost to drop the transmission alone.

I don't ever anticipate getting more power than say a S280 turbo on a pump gas, so the ST200 clutch might be perfect. I do try to take the car for track use here and there however.

what are some thoughts here? Sorry for the convoluted situation. Thanks in advance!

Was your Clutch kit Sprung or unsprung is the next question? The Sprung portion of the Disc or DMF play a significant role in Driveline shock. If you ran a Single mass Flywheel and an unsprung friction disc that could very well contribute to your reverse saying bye bye. Also if the Flywheel was light weight vs. A SMF that is the same weight of the Factory DMF that could've played a factor too* But not as likely as the Sprung and unsprung clutch disc driveline shock issue could.

 

[dhminer]

RTS dual friction clutch and single mass flywheel here with no issues whatsoever

 

[ronmcdon]

the Xclutch kit was at some point sold at Whoosh but no longer available. A slightly different version is sold and I'm including the link. I'm pretty certain the clutch is sprung with single mass flywheel (vs OEM dual mass flywheel).

https://www.maperformance.com/produ...014-2019-ford-fiesta-st-fwd-1-6l-xkfd22627-1a

I like the clutch a lot. Feels like stock and nicer than some of the Exedy clutches I've had in other cars. I'm just worried and don't know if it's safer to get ST200 clutch with OEM dual mass, which is probably around $1,200.
Spending a bit more on the Clarke transmission and don't want it to get wrecked if running single mass flywheel is a risk factor.

Interesting trans was brought up, as I do use Motul 300 and like the feel of it. Don't mind using something else but really hoping not to go back to OEM.

 

[M-Sport fan]

What does Clarke suggest for fluid use with the Wavetrac installed?

I personally would just use the old standbys of the BG, or the Ravenol MTF-2, and maybe just change it out more often if open tracking frequently.
But definitely not the (factory or otherwise) DCT stuff with higher power levels going through the gearbox, and open tracking (ab)use.

How often are you open tracking in >100*F temps?

 

[dhminer]

the Xclutch kit was at some point sold at Whoosh but no longer available. A slightly different version is sold and I'm including the link. I'm pretty certain the clutch is sprung with single mass flywheel (vs OEM dual mass flywheel).

https://www.maperformance.com/produ...014-2019-ford-fiesta-st-fwd-1-6l-xkfd22627-1a

I like the clutch a lot. Feels like stock and nicer than some of the Exedy clutches I've had in other cars. I'm just worried and don't know if it's safer to get ST200 clutch with OEM dual mass, which is probably around $1,200.
Spending a bit more on the Clarke transmission and don't want it to get wrecked if running single mass flywheel is a risk factor.

Interesting trans was brought up, as I do use Motul 300 and like the feel of it. Don't mind using something else but really hoping not to go back to OEM.

Interesting you like motul 300. I ran that at first when I had the wavetrac installed and thought it was super noisy every shift. Almost clunking gears, but that could also be a coolerworx problem. Switched to Ravenol and it did quiet down some. Will soon be removing the coolerworx as an experiment to see if that quiets it down even more.

That xclutch kit definitely had some springs, but the low res image makes it hard to tell how many of those housings, for lack of a better word, actually has a spring in it. Doesn’t look as beefy as the RTS springs, that’s for sure.

I don’t remember - have you modified your fuel system or stock fueling? If stock fueling, I think the ST200 will hold anything you can throw at it other than maybe ethanol tune on a hybrid turbo where you’re making an absurd amount of torque

 

[TyphoonFiST]

RTS dual friction clutch and single mass flywheel here with no issues whatsoever

But its a Sprung clutch disc not and unsprung Dusty!

 

[TyphoonFiST]

What does Clarke suggest for fluid use with the Wavetrac installed?

I personally would just use the old standbys of the BG, or the Ravenol MTF-2, and maybe just change it out more often if open tracking frequently.
But definitely not the (factory or otherwise) DCT stuff with higher power levels going through the gearbox, and open tracking (ab)use.

How often are you open tracking in >100*F temps?

Clark Specs what Fomoco uses which is a Straight 75w DCT Fluid* I use Ravenol MTF2 75W80 which meets Fomoco spec and has no LSD additive in it as required by Wavetrac*

 

[ronmcdon]

I liked Motul 300 as it feels a bit heavier and retains that feel even in higher temp track driving in hotter weather. If I didnt live in warmer socal and lived in cooler climates may opt for say BG Syncroshift, which I also like a lot. Found Ravenol a tad too light.

Will just stick with oem fluid at first or whatecer Clarke recommends. I didnt ask what they specify. Ordered 2 weeks ago, so still waiting for it to ship.

With power levels, I never did go beyond a cobb tune. Got a Tune+ tune few years ago, was too lazt to set ir up, and totally forgot about it until now. Doubt I will go with the hassle of ethanol. maybe will get a s280 on 91oct (best we get in CA) pump at most.
So I think st200 clutch will be okay.

To me, priority is just reliability with very occasional track use. My mechanic wanted to steer me to oem trans for $3,500 but wanted to try what Clarke offers with all the priase they get here. but wow is it not
cheap!

 

[ronmcdon]

Interesting you like motul 300. I ran that at first when I had the wavetrac installed and thought it was super noisy every shift. Almost clunking gears, but that could also be a coolerworx problem. Switched to Ravenol and it did quiet down some. Will soon be removing the coolerworx as an experiment to see if that quiets it down even more.

I don’t remember - have you modified your fuel system or stock fueling? If stock fueling, I think the ST200 will hold anything you can throw at it other than maybe ethanol tune on a hybrid turbo where you’re making an absurd amount of torque

Ah sorry forgot to say I’m running just pump gas tune. does all the extra torque from the ethanol worsen the torque steer?

how long have you had your rts clutch for? Sucks we don’t really know what precise factors lead to reverse gear failure in these cars. My guess is very few of us run unsprung clutches and maybe the data is limited.

 

[dhminer]

Ah sorry forgot to say I’m running just pump gas tune. does all the extra torque from the ethanol worsen the torque steer?

how long have you had your rts clutch for? Sucks we don’t really know what precise factors lead to reverse gear failure in these cars. My guess is very few of us run unsprung clutches and maybe the data is limited.

I have only ran ethanol on the stock turbo but the difference in torque was wild. It torque steered on 93 and ethanol had so much torque that peaked at 3k that traction was nonexistent. Always ran 93 since upgrading the turbo, but I’ll be tuning both 93 and full E85 soon so I can give a direct comparison after that.

I’ve had the RTS clutch 2 years, but have only put 2500 miles on the car since it was installed. Most of those are abusive miles including a track day but still not much use having had two children born in that timeframe so not much time to play with the fist. @TyphoonFiST ran the same clutch for a lot more miles, maybe he can chime in on longevity.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I have only ran ethanol on the stock turbo but the difference in torque was wild. It torque steered on 93 and ethanol had so much torque that peaked at 3k that traction was nonexistent. Always ran 93 since upgrading the turbo, but I’ll be tuning both 93 and full E85 soon so I can give a direct comparison after that.

I’ve had the RTS clutch 2 years, but have only put 2500 miles on the car since it was installed. Most of those are abusive miles including a track day but still not much use having had two children born in that timeframe so not much time to play with the fist. @TyphoonFiST ran the same clutch for a lot more miles, maybe he can chime in on longevity.

Still Running it! Holds power just fine! BT power that is.