Wilwood Brake System almost killed me today. Do not use Street pads on the Track!

[Joszer]

I have a brand new set of BP30's, unused that I will sell since I will no longer be tracking this car if you want them

I'll have to take you up on those

 

[Joszer]

Awesome!

I have a vaccume bleeder if you want to borrow it, its just a harbor freight one though...

Thanks for the offer, I already bled them with my little brother's assistance. It turns out after doing a Full bleed twice and going through almost $30 of brake Fluid, that the ABS module cannot be manually bled. I am gonna have to go to the Ford Dealership to have them bleed it. Apparently the ABS module needs to be switched over to open the valves with help of a Specialty Ford Scan Tool during the bleed procedure. Total BS.

 

[Andyrew]

That is bs....

 

[Joszer]

I'm gonna wait for it to start raining and gonna go out and start slamming on the brakes to make the abs module actuate. Maybe if the solenoids go off a few dozen times they'll spit out all the air and allow the air to be bled out via the traditional method.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Unless you drained the system to the level of allowing air in there should be no air in the module, just the old fluid.

I do not recall any info on this ABS about where the fluid goes that is used when engaging the system, let off the brakes, returns to the unit or goes around it and more comes in from the reservoir. Engaging the ABS may or may not be an effective way to get the old fluid and or air out of it.

I wish I had a better answer for that to help you, perhaps the Ford rep here can help find the answer unless a member knows how it is setup on this car or ABS in general.

 

[razorlab]

If you continue to track, I suggest looking into getting a Motive bleeder. Worth it's weight in gold and makes bleeding the brakes a one person job. It also pressurizes the system.

I've used them for over a decade now with great results on all my cars.

I believe the correct attachment for the Fiesta is 0118

 

[FORZDA 2]

Thanks for the offer, I already bled them with my little brother's assistance. It turns out after doing a Full bleed twice and going through almost $30 of brake Fluid, that the ABS module cannot be manually bled. I am gonna have to go to the Ford Dealership to have them bleed it. Apparently the ABS module needs to be switched over to open the valves with help of a Specialty Ford Scan Tool during the bleed procedure. Total BS.

Hmmmm? Well, that sure sounds strange. I've manually bled more than a few ABS systems (including Ford) without a "special" tool. That said, I HAVE had problems with the front/rear proportionoing valve sticking and leaving air in the rear. You know the brake pressure is biased heavily to the front, so the valve to the rear doesn't open unless there is significant pressure in the system. If it was empty, the valve is likely stuck. You will need to whack it with a small tool or screwdriver handle while poking the brake pedal HARD. When it frees up, you can bleed the rest of the system.

I would expect the Ford tool to only be required if following the actual Ford procedure to eliminate any "extra" steps.

 

[rodmoe]

Not sure about the Ford tool as the Shop manual say only to have it serviced at a Ford dealer and nothing of much use on how and what it does but being it is part of the TV and esc who knows for sure what worked on the old Tbird or Probe may not work on this wild weasel ... But when I swapped brake lines and rebled the brakes it went just like any other car though I made sure to keep the upper res full of fluid as I could not see the main fluid res very well

 

[razorlab]

I always do my final bleeding with the car on as well. I always seem to get that last extra air out of the system that way.

 

[D1JL]

I too have manually bled many ABS systems including my 2011 Fiesta SES and my current 2014 FiST.
The darn things will almost bleed themselves.
I don't know what trouble you are having but I would be happy to help you.
I posted a procedure here some place and I will look for it.
If you like, PM and I will give you my number and talk you through it.


Dave

 

[RAAMaudio]

I manually bled my front and rear WW DIY BBK's, Castrol SRF fluid, two hard core track days where I used up a $220 set of front pads, no fluid issues no matter how hot the brakes got, GT rotors on both ends of the car.

 

[Joszer]

I too have manually bled many ABS systems including my 2011 Fiesta SES and my current 2014 FiST.
The darn things will almost bleed themselves.
I don't know what trouble you are having but I would be happy to help you.
I posted a procedure here some place and I will look for it.
If you like, PM and I will give you my number and talk you through it.


Dave

Not sure about the Ford tool as the Shop manual say only to have it serviced at a Ford dealer and nothing of much use on how and what it does but being it is part of the TV and esc who knows for sure what worked on the old Tbird or Probe may not work on this wild weasel ... But when I swapped brake lines and rebled the brakes it went just like any other car though I made sure to keep the upper res full of fluid as I could not see the main fluid res very well

Hmmmm? Well, that sure sounds strange. I've manually bled more than a few ABS systems (including Ford) without a "special" tool. That said, I HAVE had problems with the front/rear proportionoing valve sticking and leaving air in the rear. You know the brake pressure is biased heavily to the front, so the valve to the rear doesn't open unless there is significant pressure in the system. If it was empty, the valve is likely stuck. You will need to whack it with a small tool or screwdriver handle while poking the brake pedal HARD. When it frees up, you can bleed the rest of the system.

I would expect the Ford tool to only be required if following the actual Ford procedure to eliminate any "extra" steps.

Unless you drained the system to the level of allowing air in there should be no air in the module, just the old fluid.

I do not recall any info on this ABS about where the fluid goes that is used when engaging the system, let off the brakes, returns to the unit or goes around it and more comes in from the reservoir. Engaging the ABS may or may not be an effective way to get the old fluid and or air out of it.

I wish I had a better answer for that to help you, perhaps the Ford rep here can help find the answer unless a member knows how it is setup on this car or ABS in general.

Keep in mind when I got home the day that I tracked my car my whole front brake system was bled dry. No Fluid in the top reservoir, master cylinder, and front calipers. There was probably none in the ABS unit as well since I frantically hit the brake coming into Turn 1 at Thunderhill. So I bled my system 3 times. I used the traditional 2 personal method, i.e. person in the car pumps up the brake 5-6 times until it becomes stiff, they maintain pressure, I crack open the bleeder, the pedal travels to the floor and is held there, the bleeder is then closed. Repeat 3-5 times until only fluid is expelled from the bleeder without evidence of air. I hit all the calipers with a rubber mallet to try to knock out any hidden air along the passages within the calipers. I can 100% say that the non ABS lines have no air. While the car is off, the pedal is hard as a rock. It isn't until the car is turned on that the brake pedal sinks to the floor and it has to be pumped 2-3 times before it becomes stiff again. I figure when the car is cycled on that the some of the brake passages to the ABS system open up. So with that in mind I rebled the system while the car was on. Yes the system did get better but instead of the pedal maintaining pressure after 2-3 pumps it takes 1-2 pumps. I bled the system starting with the RR, moving to RL, then FR, and finally FL. The car stops now, but not on the first pump, I have to pump once more to gain pressure, and on the second pump I have a real pedal feel.

Since I bled the system while the car was off and on, I don't know what else to do other than take it to the dealer (I made an appointment for Saturday. $110 for the job). It is raining all day today and tomorrow so I was thinking about taking the car out behind my house and doing several stops going from 30-0 in order to engage the ABS and going for a rebleed once or twice more. I checked the ABS unit and there are no bleeder valves on it like there was on my old Acura.

Do you guys have any recommendations/ideas? Errors to my methods?

Thanks
Jose

 

[D1JL]

You do reanalyze that the reservoir is also for the clutch?
Maybe I am missing something but where did the fluid go?

First you should drip bleed.
The car should be on stands and level with all wheels off.
ignition off.
Fill the reservoir and leave the cap off.
Pressing the brake pedal is not required.
Start at RR, then LR, then RF, then LF.
Use a piece of clear tubing on the bleed valve so you can see the fluid.
Open one bleed valve at a time until no bubbles.
Do not let the reservoir go dry.

Next use your friend but do NOT pump the brakes, pumping only churns the fluid and puts in air.
Just one press, hold, bleed, repeat until no bubbles at each brake in the same sequence.
Do not let the reservoir go dry but now cap after each check.





Dave

 

[Joszer]

You do reanalyze that the reservoir is also for the clutch?
Maybe I am missing something but where did the fluid go?

First you should drip bleed.
The car should be on stands and level with all wheels off.
ignition off.
Fill the reservoir and leave the cap off.
Pressing the brake pedal is not required.
Start at RR, then LR, then RF, then LF.
Use a piece of clear tubing on the bleed valve so you can see the fluid.
Open one bleed valve at a time until no bubbles.
Do not let the reservoir go dry.

Next use your friend but do NOT pump the brakes, pumping only churns the fluid and puts in air.
Just one press, hold, bleed, repeat until no bubbles at each brake in the same sequence.
Do not let the reservoir go dry but now cap after each check.





Dave

All my fluid leaked out of the calipers when the seals blew going into Turn 1 at Thunderhill. My wheels, rotors, tires, and subframe were covered in brake fluid. I'll gravity bleed the system again in the morning when I get off work. Interestingly enough my clutch pedal never lost pressure, only my brakes. When I got home the reservoir was dry, both at the fill tank and brake master cylinder.

 

[Joszer]

Omg guys. I am an idiot. I totally forgot to bleed the inside facing bleeders on both of my calipers. I just gravity bled them and behold! Firm pedal! I'm a figgin biggot.

 

[D1JL]

That would do it.
Glad you found it.


Dave

 

[RAAMaudio]

GREAT news

We all make mistakes, glad you found it and glad you were here for advice and got lots of help, saved you the $110 as well!

 

[antarctica24]

Did you get Carbotech to built you a pad for the WW BP6? The same Calipers J2 Racing is selling? If so, when I call them what should I be asking for?

Thanks

 

[RAAMaudio]

They were in stock

I should of went with their advice and bought the XP20 pads for the front and XP12 for the rear but I was concerned the weather was going to be to cold for the XP20 and nearly wore out the XP12's but I drove the car hard for two track days, pounding on the brakes on 225 race tires and the weather was 70+ most of the time, fast course, around 80 laps total with 130MPH top speeds. I have a bit left in the fronts, one or two sessions, lots of rear pad life left.

 

[Young L]

sorry for the old bump....


what if you are still having a soft brake pedal? I just swapped my brakes last night for hawk pads, stoptech rotors and ss lines. I figured last night it was just a bit to cold and the pads hadnt heated up yet but today coming home they should have been definitely warmed up by the time I hit the back road to test them a little bit. An needless to say it wasn't the most confidence inspiring drive I also had the ESC off.