Wheel suggestions? Grabbing a dedicated 'summer' set

[NATYPE]

Hey all! Unfortunately my Fiesta is still in the shop (see my post in the daily thread: a pretty rough curb impact)

Things are moving repair wise. Unfortunately they're having a tough time finding the fender and sourcing my replacement Fifteen52 Podium. So it's looking like I'll have to grab another set of wheels and tires for now so I can get the ST back on the road when repairs are complete. They're covering that wheel and tire replacement no matter what, it just might take a long ass time. And obviously a new set comes right out of my pocket as well.

I love Fifteen52 wheels, the looks offered and fitment are awesome to my tastes. Was looking at Chicanes but everything shows as backordered when it gets to your cart, plus 52 wheels are crazy expensive now. My Podium's with tires were $1200ish a little more than a year ago. Now a similarly spec'd set is over 2 grand. So I'm obviously looking at Dekagrams lol. Plus I appreciate the performance gains there from weight savings and 16x8 sizing with those tire options. I think it would be a good move and appropriate pairing with my Podium's. Some great summer rubber on the Dekagrams and I'll eventually swap the 52's to a nice all season? I can likely decide way down the line since it's starting to get consistently warm enough here that I don't have to care as much about leaving some nicer tires in the elements.

What would you do? Is there another wheel option out there I should consider? Also thinking about tires since options seem thin across the board right now, at least for the kind I'm looking at. I see a lot of good knowledge here around what stretches and performs well, what's comfortable, what's durable etc. I'd love some stiffer feeling sidewall compared to my 215x45 Indy's that I'm used to. Plus it seems like any good 200TW option will really make second gear hook up so much better. Sounds like I can get that at 16x8 with either 205 stretched, just sticking with a 40 ratio, I don't know... so many ways to go. I can just take a shot but if anyone's bought wheels and tires recenetly let me know what you went for hahaa! Still have a few days to decide on something.

 

[NATYPE]

Obviously I'm just sitting at my computer building various sets right now. Deka's and Neo Gens in 205x45 are available to ship and very reasonable. Wonder if Ron could ship me some Chicane's with rubber though...

 

[M-Sport fan]

IF you are lowered at all, yes, I would stick with the 205/45 Neo Gens on the Dekas, as the 205/50s in that tire will rub if not at factory ride height, and maybe even then..

 

[Dpro]

Falken RT660’s 215/45 great tires no wait awesome tires. stick like glue some of the best current summers

 

[kevinatfms]

15x8 KE Motorsport Pros from Phils Tire Service. Throw 225/45R15's in your 200tw flavor.

 

[NATYPE]

15x8 KE Motorsport Pros from Phils Tire Service. Throw 225/45R15's in your 200tw flavor.

I started looking into 15x8 options last night too, also pretty tempting honestly. Came across those KE Pros and they're not bad! After sleeping on it I'm down to three ish options. I did feel like most of the 15x8 setups I was seeing really needed some kind of lowering to sit right visually. But at 225x45 maybe that's chunky enough for OEM suspension.

 

[NATYPE]

So I could order the Chicane's from Ron and just grab tires anywhere. Not concerned with TPMS sensors for this set either so I have a bit of freedom on how I do things. So these are the options I can tell I'm liking.

Fifteen52 Chicane 17x7.5 + Falken RT 615K+ (215x40) - Even with a lower ratio thay should still be a touch fatter than my Indy 500's. I would consider 660's but I swear I just can't find them anywhere, plus I feel like I've seen opinions that the 615K+ might last a bit longer with a little better wet performance?

Konig Dekagram + Nitto Neo Gen (205x45 or 205x50) - I can't deny how much cheaper this setup is. Could grab it fully mounted + balanced as well.

 

[Dpro]

So I could order the Chicane's from Ron and just grab tires anywhere. Not concerned with TPMS sensors for this set either so I have a bit of freedom on how I do things. So these are the options I can tell I'm liking.

Fifteen52 Chicane 17x7.5 + Falken RT 615K+ (215x40) - Even with a lower ratio thay should still be a touch fatter than my Indy 500's. I would consider 660's but I swear I just can't find them anywhere, plus I feel like I've seen opinions that the 615K+ might last a bit longer with a little better wet performance?

Konig Dekagram + Nitto Neo Gen (205x45 or 205x50) - I can't deny how much cheaper this setup is. Could grab it fully mounted + balanced as well.

660‘s wipe the floor compared to 615’s not to say 615’s are bad but 660’s are much better and ya I have had them . You have to go to Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct to get 660’s.

 

[SteveS]

Tire Rack has a lot of wheel choices.

 

[NATYPE]

660‘s wipe the floor compared to 615’s not to say 615’s are bad but 660’s are much better and ya I have had them . You have to go to Tire Zone or Discount Tire Direct to get 660’s.

Copy that. Not married to where I get my tires from so I'll look for and price out some 660's! Appreciate the insight.

 

[Dpro]

Copy that. Not married to where I get my tires from so I'll look for and price out some 660's! Appreciate the insight.

Meant Tire Rack totally brain farted in my previous post

 

[flbchbm]

TLDR fellow posters. IM (not so) HO.... Here is my suggestion:. Avoid going larger and heavier wheels and tires unless you are tracking and need the surface area.

.........
Rotational mass applies to the parts that must be accelerated or decelerated when the speed of the vehicle changes. This includes items that rotate, like the driveshaft, brake rotors, wheels, and tires. Rotating mass is roughly three times harder to accelerate than sprung weight.

In tests, drivers saw substantial improvements in lap times when they cut 12 pounds off each wheel. Getting less mass in motion also means your acceleration will make a notable improvement. In testing, many drivers knocked nearly half a second off of their 0-60 times.
...................

Go to the weights section of the forum and look at factory. Use that to compare to everybody's suggestions.

When I drive my winter car, it has narrower 16's than the factory 17's with plus zero tires on them. I thought it was a placebo effect the first winter. NOPE. Makes a HUGE different. And that, my fellow fister, is why I run 16's on my FiST. They are not the lightest since I'm trying minimize expenditures...

Not tracking or street racing. Just fun and crazy daily driving. (Just kidding insurance co.)

You do you!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Filandro]

Going to a lighter street wheel/tire combo because lap times are improved could make sense for some, but would make sense for few. Most people on the street are not driving at the limit, nor are capable of doing so consistently.

It might be more rewarding and produce a better driving experience to have a bigger tire (esp in a 660-type of compound), which would technically handcuff an experienced track driver who drives at the limit. The ROI to the street driver is higher grip in a corner, and pushing the limit of adhesion up, while the thousandths gained from turn-in or pin-point acceleration out of a corner, or braking modulation in a braking zone will never be realized on the street.

Generally. YMMV.

 

[Dpro]

Going to a lighter street wheel/tire combo because lap times are improved could make sense for some, but would make sense for few. Most people on the street are not driving at the limit, nor are capable of doing so consistently.

It might be more rewarding and produce a better driving experience to have a bigger tire (esp in a 660-type of compound), which would technically handcuff an experienced track driver who drives at the limit. The ROI to the street driver is higher grip in a corner, and pushing the limit of adhesion up, while the thousandths gained from turn-in or pin-point acceleration out of a corner, or braking modulation in a braking zone will never be realized on the street.

Generally. YMMV.

Interesting except… our cars were designed to be extreme fun cars. The problem with our cars and 17’s on the street is very limited tire size choice on the 17 and the stock 17 tire combo is a very thin sidewall setup. Yes you can gain a bit by going to a 215/40 vs the stock 205/40 but not much.
Whereas the minute we drop down to a 16 one of the best wheels for the car …Konig Dekagram is not only lighter but stronger as well . Add to that the open door of more rubber to the road for increased grip due to sizing 205-225/ 45 leads not only more contact patch options but also much better increased sidewall choices taking out the harshness of a lot of city or county roads.
So ya in the end if you are concerned about turn than you can remedy that a few different ways . Staying in a wide ( section width measurement vs stated) 205/40 setup is one way. Adding in more negative front camber than stock is another something our cars seem to just love as quite a few of us are running 2 degrees negative up front on street driven machines.

All in all this all spells a win win situation with no downside. Now 15’s might be more adverse than running a 16 but there are a fair number of us running 16’s on the street with no downside like seem to be pointing towards.
YMMV.

Though having first hand experience going back and forth between 16’s and 17’s and speaking from it,
I prefer 16’s.

As for tires 660’s do not handcuff a experienced driver rather they allow them to go much faster
Ya ran them in 17’s and getting ready to order a set for my 16’s.

 

[NATYPE]

Just want to say I've really appreciated the discussion and perspective this brought on. Was really aiming for a greatest hits summary of some of the thoughts I've seen evolve on here over time and I feel like I've got it.

So I've gone with 16x8 Konig Dekagrams and RT 660's in 215x45 which should meet my wants nicely. I did not like how the turn-in felt on my Indy 500's in 215x45 on 17x7.5 52 Podium's. Much better on 40 vs 45 but I didn't know any better at the time. They'll be getting a 215x40 all season set down the line most likely. And after seeing all the discussion here and in other threads I'm more than positive I'll have appropriate feel and response on the 16x8 setup with the tire I've gone with. Very excited for the extra tread on the ground in general too since on E30 2nd gear was too much for the Indy's. I think I'll be very satisfied.

Definitely taking Filandro's guidance on what really matters in the context of what's useful / safe on the street into account here. Because it's just an undenialy sound way to look at these decisions to make sure you're changing something in a meaningfully useful way. So I'm more going into this set to appreciate and analyze the differences between what I'm used to and how something lighter, wider, and with a 'better' compound feels in reality. I can absolutely see myself coming out of this experience liking the 16x8 form factor and not needing anything in the 200TW tire territory but it's all about seeing for myself.

 

[Dpro]

Just want to say I've really appreciated the discussion and perspective this brought on. Was really aiming for a greatest hits summary of some of the thoughts I've seen evolve on here over time and I feel like I've got it.

So I've gone with 16x8 Konig Dekagrams and RT 660's in 215x45 which should meet my wants nicely. I did not like how the turn-in felt on my Indy 500's in 215x45 on 17x7.5 52 Podium's. Much better on 40 vs 45 but I didn't know any better at the time. They'll be getting a 215x40 all season set down the line most likely. And after seeing all the discussion here and in other threads I'm more than positive I'll have appropriate feel and response on the 16x8 setup with the tire I've gone with. Very excited for the extra tread on the ground in general too since on E30 2nd gear was too much for the Indy's. I think I'll be very satisfied.

Definitely taking Filandro's guidance on what really matters in the context of what's useful / safe on the street into account here. Because it's just an undenialy sound way to look at these decisions to make sure you're changing something in a meaningfully useful way. So I'm more going into this set to appreciate and analyze the differences between what I'm used to and how something lighter, wider, and with a 'better' compound feels in reality. I can absolutely see myself coming out of this experience liking the 16x8 form factor and not needing anything in the 200TW tire territory but it's all about seeing for myself.

haha 660’s are a 200TW rating but make great street tires. As far his guidance goes and re reading his comment I am not sure if he is talking about the 660 tire or treadware compound. As I just mentioned 660’s are a 200TW compound.
In that my first response to his comment took it on the 660 as a tire not as TW compound basis. Yes a harder compound tire would definitely handicap an experienced drive in the sense that one would give up stick in favor of longevity. I do not feel that benefits inexperienced drivers at all though beyond maybe a bit better gas mileage .

Having a less sticky tire does any driver no favors outside of that . They tend to ride harsher because they are hard they definitely give up performance both in turn in and stick . One can have stiff sidewalls and still have a sticky tire to not sacrifice turn in. Though harder compound tires tend to take longer to heat up cool down faster and lose grip accordingly . Granted their are different levels of compounds but for all inclusive terms if one is out for performance then a stickier compound tire is gonna benefit them either way.

That is where I feel his theory falls apart inexperienced drivers benefit from tires that are stickier in my opinion.
In an ordinary driving car his position might have more weight for the average driver not pushing their car to the extreme that they need a stickier tire. Our cars are not average and neither are most driving them.

In the end his argument against a lighter wheel fails as well as lighter wheels mean less rolling resistance and unsprung weight which translates to both better gas mileage and more performance. Like I stated previously it’s really a win win and you have made some great choices that I do not think you will regret. Should you feel the need for a even longer wearing tire the Direzza’s might be the alternative to retain a lot of the stick but have a little longer wear

 

[Filandro]

I

As for tires 660’s do not handcuff a experienced driver rather they allow them to go much faster
Ya ran them in 17’s and getting ready to order a set for my 16’s.

I was referring to bigger tires/wheels handcuffing someone who can extract max lap times with a lighter arrangement.

Track setups with a -1 config are actually prevalent in many cars now. I hear ya, but my experience on street is that extra basic grip at times (not total performance over a lap), plus the dampening power of the extra mass, tends to make most people happiest. Manufacturers recognize this, too, despite their propensity to throw everything from spares and jacks out of cars to save weight.

So, fair enough; we'll work from the premise that FiST drivers are not most people. I don' think anyone would argue with that! #peace

 

[Dpro]

I was referring to bigger tires/wheels handcuffing someone who can extract max lap times with a lighter arrangement.

Track setups with a -1 config are actually prevalent in many cars now. I hear ya, but my experience on street is that extra basic grip at times (not total performance over a lap), plus the dampening power of the extra mass, tends to make most people happiest. Manufacturers recognize this, too, despite their propensity to throw everything from spares and jacks out of cars to save weight.

So, fair enough; we'll work from the premise that FiST drivers are not most people. I don' think anyone would argue with that! #peace

Fair enough, though I do think we differ on our consensus . Our cars 1. Were never designed for 17 inch wheel. 2. Even though that’s so they put the bigger wheels on to extract more turn in performance not take away.

In fact that is the biggest reason reason people try to stay with 17‘s as the stock turn in is pretty damn amazing for a production FWD car. Also you can run the car pretty damn fast and hard on 17’s as even Octane Academy cars were on 17’s with a 205/40 tire.

Now like I pointed out earlier running 16’s does exactly opposite what you seem to think it does on our cars . It actually gives the driver overall more ability to have more rubber due to being able to accommodate more tire sizes.

This being so because like earlier stated just because Ford slapped 17’s on for turn means they actually help the average driver. They did this at the sacrifice of ride due to choosing a super low profile thin tire in size 205/40 17 and because the chassis was designed for 15 and 16 inch wheels there is barely enough room to run anything more than a 215/40 17. Not exactly the worlds widest tire or high aspect ratio.

Furthermore going 16’s with a 45 series aspect ratio actually gives you more dampening power than any 17 setup does this is a well known truth in the FiST community due to the taller aspect ratio to get close to stock rolling diameter.
Though several track guys actually prefer 17’s over 16’s due to what they feel is a loss of turn by running 16’s . Unless one makes adjustments suspension geometry wise that is actually a bit of truth.
So this flies opposite of your whole assessment and I have experience with all of this having run both 16’s and 17‘s on my car . Oh and ya 660’s are available in 16 and 17 in our cars.

have a good day.

 

[Filandro]

So this flies opposite of your whole assessment and I have experience with all of this having run both 16’s and 17‘s on my car . Oh and ya 660’s are available in 16 and 17 in our cars.

have a good day.

Considering I am 50 cars into my lifetime, and have moved to 660 tires at 215/40-17, and I could have bought literally any tire wheel combo I wanted, I already knew when I'd move to 16's, and that'd be to make track life happiest. I don't see any disconnect except that a tire aspect ratio is one of several components that dampen bumps, and not the whole story. The total mass of the wheel and tire often do more. A taller sidewall has more to give, but only if it is actually compliant. The smaller mass of the wheel-tire combo limits what it can dampen.

Same deal on my 4C. Track? Go down an inch to a 18/17 f/r stagger from the 19/18 f/r stagger. Ride on those taller sidewalls? Worse. Consistent with every other time I have ever seen mass surrendered for lap times. Dampening, on a taller sidewall, is worse, because it's not the whole story.

I can't compare apples to apples on the FiST, so I will concede to your points, but I am coming from experience wherein I want my FiST best on street, and I went 660 tires @ 215/40-17. If I missed the mark, that sucks, but I did this despite a never-ending stream of people on forums talking up 16" and 15" combos.

 

[Dpro]

Considering I am 50 cars into my lifetime, and have moved to 660 tires at 215/40-17, and I could have bought literally any tire wheel combo I wanted, I already knew when I'd move to 16's, and that'd be to make track life happiest. I don't see any disconnect except that a tire aspect ratio is one of several components that dampen bumps, and not the whole story. The total mass of the wheel and tire often do more. A taller sidewall has more to give, but only if it is actually compliant. The smaller mass of the wheel-tire combo limits what it can dampen.

Same deal on my 4C. Track? Go down an inch to a 18/17 f/r stagger from the 19/18 f/r stagger. Ride on those taller sidewalls? Worse. Consistent with every other time I have ever seen mass surrendered for lap times. Dampening, on a taller sidewall, is worse, because it's not the whole story.

I can't compare apples to apples on the FiST, so I will concede to your points, but I am coming from experience wherein I want my FiST best on street, and I went 660 tires @ 215/40-17. If I missed the mark, that sucks, but I did this despite a never-ending stream of people on forums talking up 16" and 15" combos.

You make your choices I get it your 4c is way different car than a FiST and I would not tell you that the same wheel tire combo that works on FiST works on it . Normally ya I would agree certain extent on a lower profile if I could run a 9 inch wheel on the FiST I would not even be talking about a 45 series.
If you want your FiST on street than indeed what I am recommending would better suit , as you do not give much if any in the handling department but gain bucketloads in the ride department.
Fact is your original statement was indeed speculation based off cars that are not FiST’s . In truth neither setup handcuffs the driver it just gives a different ride and feel
You picked a great tire and I ran them with Rota Titans which are lighter than stock . Though the minute I went back to my Dekagrams even with the RS Pro’s the playful character factor went up. I will be throwing a set of 215/45 660’s on my Dekagrams . It should be awesome . Oh and ya with a 16 you can fit a 225/45 on the car in Direzza’s have friends running that setup.

P.S. I have few years on you though but I don’t usually pull the age card . I have driven and owned as many or more than you that’s neither here nor there. Nor is the fact that i built drift cars , started out with Datsun 510’s/ 240z’s and have/ owned a few M3’s among other sports cars.

In the end we are talking about FiST’s and they are truthfully pretty special little FWD cars, that do not behave like most FWD cars. There is a reason they are in a sense almost the pinnacle of hot hatches.