What suspension mods am I missing?

[AntTrain]

One of the 1st thing I upgraded on my 2016 ST was the suspension. I started out having Pierce Motorsports install their street kit and now I'm fully braced. Here is my entire suspension and brake kit mods.

Pierce Motorsports: 2 point chassis brace, Strut tower brace, midship brace, rear torsion bar and trunk brace
Brembo BBK
Swift spec r springs

My question is, what am I missing? I'm getting a little body roll still in really tight cornering.i was debating getting the eibach sway bar kits but I'm finding conflicting opinions when I search on them. What are suspension mods are available for our STs? What are the best struts/shocks available for our cars. Btw I'm not intrested in going with coil overs.

 

[srirachapenguin]

Sway bars may be worth looking into. I can't speak from experience as I don't have them on my car, but I believe they are supposed to reduce body roll a good bit. I'm planning to get a set in the future.

 

[jeffreylyon]

You can't eliminate body roll and it's not necessarily a bad thing. If you have the full Pierce setup you've already increased roll stiffness in the rear with the torsion bar and are probably tripod-ing as a result. Increasing roll stiffness in the front will increase static understeer, which you (probably) don't want.

Stiffer shocks will sharpen turn-in and might help with ride quality. Losing weight up high, like with a lighter battery, will lower CoG, which will lessen body roll. Lighter wheel will help everything, except body roll.

Remember, F1 guys dial in *more* roll for street circuits like Monaco. Roll is caused by and causes weight transfer, which is neither good nor bad - it just is.

 

[deathratt1e]

I've always liked a little bit of roll. It's good way for the car to communicate to me.

 

[srirachapenguin]

You can't eliminate body roll and it's not necessarily a bad thing. If you have the full Pierce setup you've already increased roll stiffness in the rear with the torsion bar and are probably tripod-ing as a result. Increasing roll stiffness in the front will increase static understeer, which you (probably) don't want.

Stiffer shocks will sharpen turn-in and might help with ride quality. Losing weight up high, like with a lighter battery, will lower CoG, which will lessen body roll. Lighter wheel will help everything, except body roll.

Remember, F1 guys dial in *more* roll for street circuits like Monaco. Roll is caused by and causes weight transfer, which is neither good nor bad - it just is.

Thanks for that explanation. That actually clarified a couple of points for me.

 

[Siestarider]

Great point by Jeffreylyon on F1 Monaco vs tracks like SPA. For those who do not follow that circus, there are no high speed sweepers for F1 cars at Monaco, but lots of slow tight turns where aero cannot help much, so maximum mechanical grip is optimized by rolling weight to outside tires.

My favorite on the topic is from Jerrick of MeisterR. He quoted Colin Chapman as having said "any suspension will work if you don't let it."

My '69 Elan is very softly sprung and Koni damped in moderation, with tiny tire contact patches. Ride and handling of that car are still amazing by today's standards. Interesting that Chapman deliberately designed that suspension with no adjustment except toe. I have learned a lot about why he did that by reading this forum.

 

[MeisterR]

Body roll is not a bad thing, but it has to be controlled.
What alot of people feel from body roll is actually the damper not having enough compression force.

Higher springs rate may increase roll resistant, but it doesn't change load to the tires.
So if you have a high performance damper that actually put "weight" onto the tires, what you end up with is that "crisp" turn in that sports car is suppose to have.

This is when a good coilovers with adjustable damping is worth it's weight in gold.
Because you can have stiffer springs rate (the long as they are sensible), and you can tune the damper to give you that turn in that you want.
With stiffer damping comes with harsher ride quality, but that is why an adjustable damper is important because it allows the "driver" to dial in what they prefer.

There really isn't a "best" setting in suspension, as there are so many variable.
A setting that the driver is comfortable, confident, and enjoy is the best setting, because 90% of the time a setup that the driver likes will result in the best lap time IF you were to use that as a measurement of performance.

Jerrick

 

[gabe]

Body roll is not a bad thing, but it has to be controlled.
What alot of people feel from body roll is actually the damper not having enough compression force.

Higher springs rate may increase roll resistant, but it doesn't change load to the tires.
So if you have a high performance damper that actually put "weight" onto the tires, what you end up with is that "crisp" turn in that sports car is suppose to have.

This is when a good coilovers with adjustable damping is worth it's weight in gold.
Because you can have stiffer springs rate (the long as they are sensible), and you can tune the damper to give you that turn in that you want.
With stiffer damping comes with harsher ride quality, but that is why an adjustable damper is important because it allows the "driver" to dial in what they prefer.

There really isn't a "best" setting in suspension, as there are so many variable.
A setting that the driver is comfortable, confident, and enjoy is the best setting, because 90% of the time a setup that the driver likes will result in the best lap time IF you were to use that as a measurement of performance.

Jerrick

This is how you sell me your equipment by not selling it. Instead just helping and guiding and explaining. Thank you for teaching us, well at least me. I don't know very much about all of this and it seems whenever you give responses like this I seem to learn something new. Thank you and I appreciate it! Please keep doing what you do!!

Gabe

Ps. I can't stop thinking about getting your CRD street setup. However, I know I won't be getting it until next year.

 

[apex]

After driving about 10000 street miles and spirited driving on the the CRD coils I tend to prefer a softer, compliant setting. Obviously being more comfortable, the additional roll and weight transfer to the front communicates better the rate of rotation as opposed to when I set the damping to 'firm' and the transition of weight seems less predictable/progressive. I settled on 13 from full firm in the front and 12 in the rear.

 

[MeisterR]

After driving about 10000 street miles and spirited driving on the the CRD coils I tend to prefer a softer, compliant setting. Obviously being more comfortable, the additional roll and weight transfer to the front communicates better the rate of rotation as opposed to when I set the damping to 'firm' and the transition of weight seems less predictable/progressive. I settled on 13 from full firm in the front and 12 in the rear.

That sounds pretty spot on to me.
On a road car, I normally end up somewhere around -15 clicks to -20 clicks from full stiff.
Of course, every car is different, and every driver is different; so that -13 clicks sounds pretty good to me.

When the damping is lower, it allows the tires more time to find grip before the weight are thrown onto it.
So you loose a little bit of that crispy turn in, but in return you get more predictable traction as well as better compliancy going over uneven road surfaces.
All these lead to better overall traction, and the body motion should be controlled so that mean you know what is going on.

You will always "hold back" if you are unsure what the car will do suddenly, such as if the rear end kicks out, then suddenly grip and snap you back the opposite direction.
A good setup just mean you know what the car want to do, and give you the tools to adjust it. That way the car can behave the way you want, and you don't have to drive to the car's style so to speak.

Jerrick