Water Intrusion Issue - Resolved

[Intuit]

Thanks for the thanks.

It seems there are lots of ideas for dealing with water staining on the headliner. My primary concern is damaging the adhesive that melds the headliner fabric, to the foam. If you all have any experiences, chime in. I'll likely be investigating the route of using Woolite, very light dabbing/rubbing with an absorbant rag, cool or cold water, and blowing cool air on it for fast drying. Negative or positive, I'll post my short term experiences.

Amateur Opinion
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...23D09DA6A1565790E23F23D09DA6A156579&FORM=VIRE

Professional Opinion
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...D09DA6A1565790E23F23D09DA6A156579&FORM=VDQVAP

 

[Intuit]

With regard to headliner water staining, I used the wand attachments (soft rotating brushes) for a carpet cleaner, distilled water and Woolite detergent. The results were far less than perfect. The waterline was extended out from their original borders. Benefits are, there's only one waterline per side instead of multiple, and it's about 80% to 90% LESS visible under artificial fluorescent lighting. Should blend in with the shadows there and might become indistinguishable with time. Considered cleaning the entire headliner so it'll all match but that can be risky and I don't think the current staining will be noticeable unless someone goes and points it out.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ABsZJDCN8kMMgaxU
View attachment 28430
The tray just snaps back into place. I may make a slight modification, to help prevent a repeat; not that I understand what caused it since the module/motor can't be easily operated outside the vehicle.

Decided the modification that needed to be done with the sunroof, was to add a cotter pin. Photo below describes how this was done.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ABsZJDCN8kMMgaxg

 

[Kap]

Awesome post, Intuit! My sunroof's been fine for 6 years, but recently started leaking into the passenger side C pillar, and this detailed thread helped me to lower the rear headliner on that side and take a peek at it. Everything drains perfectly when I run water directly through the troughs, but when pouring water on the closed sunroof, it drips onto the headliner from the back of the sliding track, just as yours did. The rear tray looks like it's aligned fine on mine, though, so I'm at a bit of a loss. Having disassembled yours, might you have any other insight as to what else might cause water to flow onto that track? Without an assistant, I'm not keen on removing the entire headliner and sunroof assembly, but I'm willing to tinker with anything else I can access while it's still in the car. Cheers!

 

[Intuit]

Hi Kap.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhsZJDCN8kMMgaxUvjD-G0y_KxmP6w
After the photo loads, double-click to view at full resolution. Then you can scroll around the image.

Looking off to the right side, you see how that tray should be tucked well underneath the glass's edge? This is because the water doesn't just roll off the edge and fall straight down onto the tray. It rolls off in the direction of the center the window before dripping down. My point is, it doesn't take much of shift for water to start landing outside of the tray. I actually pulled mine away a bit before snapping the photo in order to make it more obvious. I'm not sure this is something that is easily observed with it inside the vehicle. Stick your hand up there and gently try to move each corner around.

 

[Kap]

I get what you're saying, and thanks so much for the quick reply! The corners feel pretty secure (I'm able to shift the rear tray just slightly from side to side) and it looks like there's enough overlap, but it's so hard to see where the drips are landing from inside the car. Tomorrow when I have more daylight, I might try laying some paper towels over the tracks to see if I can find where they blot. Thanks again!

http://imgur.com/c9PbPdT

View: https://i.imgur.com/c9PbPdT.jpg

 

[Intuit]

Got a neighbor that works for bucks, brew or brunch? Might be quicker to just pull it out. My helper spent less than ten minutes of their time during removal. Install takes a little longer because a bolt was dropped; but all they have to do is hand-thread it in. You can finish it off. They have to be able to hold weight above their heads for at least a few minutes.

Have a backup plan for covering that hole in the event of rain or other. The weight distibution is ackward; heavily shifted toward the front. It wasn't obvious how mine was malfunctioning until I literally poured water over it while it was out.

It's kind of normal for water to spill out of it, if you're semi-aggressively maneuvering in tlilt mode under rain. Tray is shallow so won't contain water under any "G" forces. Closed, there isn't enough water entering for that to happen though. If you do have a ton of water entering while closed under rain, consider whether the glass is properly aligned, and whether the "seal" (that isn't designed to seal) needs to be replaced. I don't think the dealer spent much time aligning my glass. There are two bolts to a side, securing the glass. I spent considerable time eyeballing the alignment to perfection. I think that's what got rid of the noise on tilt.

 

[Business6]

At this point I'd like to remove the whole mechanism and leave the glass.

 

[Kap]

Well, after spending some more time troubleshooting, I still wasn't able to determine where the water was finding its way onto the sliding track (and eventually into the "corner" of the headliner in the hatch area). Since I'm in the process of relocating and have too much going on at the moment, I just couldn't devote any more time to this right now, so... I temporarily sealed my sunroof shut with a patch of clear vinyl that I picked up for $10 at a local sign shop. It's practically invisible, and I have the peace of mind knowing that it's water-tight for now. I may revisit the issue in the spring/summer and properly fix it, in which case, I'll definitely be referring to this awesome instructional thread again!

http://imgur.com/SqA23Ov

View: https://i.imgur.com/SqA23Ov.jpg

 

[Business6]

Well, after spending some more time troubleshooting, I still wasn't able to determine where the water was finding its way onto the sliding track (and eventually into the "corner" of the headliner in the hatch area). Since I'm in the process of relocating and have too much going on at the moment, I just couldn't devote any more time to this right now, so... I temporarily sealed my sunroof shut with a patch of clear vinyl that I picked up for $10 at a local sign shop. It's practically invisible, and I have the peace of mind knowing that it's water-tight for now. I may revisit the issue in the spring/summer and properly fix it, in which case, I'll definitely be referring to this awesome instructional thread again!

Like an adhesive vinyl? If not, how'd you get it to stick?

 

[Kap]

Like an adhesive vinyl? If not, how'd you get it to stick?

Yes, the vinyl has adhesive on the back and is the same kind they use for auto decals, so it shouldn't leave any residue or cause any damage to the paint when I eventually remove it.

I got the idea from a guy on a BMW forum who had a shop seal his panoramic sunroof shut with 3M paint protection film. (It feels like it would be poor etiquette to post a link here to another forum, but it'll be one of the first results if you decide to search using those keywords.) I obviously can't open the sunroof with this in place, but it still lets light into the car, and should be much more easily reversible than if I had sealed it shut with silicone or polyurethane caulk like so many seem to do.

From what you've posted in this thread, it sounds like your sunroof is causing you grief as well, and I'm not saying that this "solution" is a better alternative than actually getting it fixed, but if you're considering doing something similar, it's cheap, quick and easy. All you'd need is the piece of vinyl, a ruler and razor knife to measure and cut it, a spray bottle of water with a few drops of soap, a few bits of masking tape, and a squeegee (I used a credit card wrapped in a microfiber hand towel). I was meticulous in cutting the patch and centering it on the car, but the actual application took less time than it took me to type this reply. Youtube can show you how to do a wet application and use the "hinge method" that worked perfectly for me. Good luck!


Thanks again for this awesome thread, Intuit, and I hope I didn't let you down by not fixing my issue properly (yet!) I do want to address it at some point, but I just need to postpone that for now until time allows. I still hope to make you proud someday!

 

[Se7eN]

This is a great write up, thanks for that btw. I had issues when I first got the car but it wasn't the sunroof turned out that the front windshield was not sealed properly from the factory, go figure. Been 58k and nearly 6 years and no more leak.

 

[bj2348]

All,

Found this thread after noticing a LOT of condensation on the inside of my car after heavy rains. I am not seeing any evidence of active leaks but the water has to be coming from somewhere. Car is still under warranty but the OP experience with the dealership tech has me doubting that approach.

Thoughts?

 

[Intuit]

As mentioned earlier, the staining was in the rear corners of the headliner when the sun roof was the source.

Remove your spare tire, scissor jack, black felt liner and check the spare tire wheel well after a heavy rain.

Beyond that, to source the leak you'll have to have someone hose the sucker down after having stripped-down the interior. (note the thread detailing the unanticipated side effects of operating the vehicle without the headliner installed) Visit a car wash or buy the local fire station some pizza to get the car hosed down. 😉

==================Other=Reported=Sources=============================================

• • I noticed headliner staining by the sun visors when the windshield leaked. Probably requires highway driving.
• • Some folks have reported a leak from the rear antannae... not sure precisely what staining they saw or where the water collected.
• • If you lift the rear hatch, there's a wire loom coming off the top and feeding into the hatch. Another person reported that a leak was sourced there.
• • Some have reported leak from underneath a rubber roof rail. Again, do not know precisely what headliner staining they saw there.
• • Less likely due to wheel well liners, but can check for leak via top of rear strut towers. Zero people have reported a leak from there thus far.

 

[speedyspaghetti]

As mentioned earlier, the staining was in the rear corners of the headliner when the sun roof was the source.

Remove your spare tire, scissor jack, black felt liner and check the spare tire wheel well after a heavy rain.

Beyond that, to source the leak you'll have to have someone hose the sucker down after having stripped-down the interior. (note the thread detailing the unanticipated side effects of operating the vehicle without the headliner installed) Visit a car wash or buy the local fire station some pizza to get the car hosed down. 😉

==================Other=Reported=Sources=============================================

• • I noticed headliner staining by the sun visors when the windshield leaked. Probably requires highway driving.
• • Some folks have reported a leak from the rear antannae... not sure precisely what staining they saw or where the water collected.
• • If you lift the rear hatch, there's a wire loom coming off the top and feeding into the hatch. Another person reported that a leak was sourced there.
• • Some have reported leak from underneath a rubber roof rail. Again, do not know precisely what headliner staining they saw there.
• • Less likely due to wheel well liners, but can check for leak via top of rear strut towers. Zero people have reported a leak from there thus far.

Hey man - I know this thread is from a while ago but I was wondering if you could help me out.

I just bought my 2016 ST about a week ago and a few days ago I noticed like a literal pool of water in my spare tire well. I've been in the process of tearing things apart to try and figure out where it is coming from. There was definitely some coming through these little plastic anchors where the torx screws go to hold the bumper onto the car, so I permatexed/RTV'd around those bolt holes.

Whilst looking for any other sources of leaks, I found that there was some water near the headliner which then dripped down onto where the rear shock bolts in. I pulled the headliner and poured water into the sunroof drain track and found that the driver side drain was draining properly but the passenger side was pooling up in the area before the drain line and then spilling over onto the headliner and below. Does this indicate that I need to remove the sunroof tray as you mentioned?

The drain line itself seems clear, I blew through it and it is clear. Some water dribbles through it, but a lot of it pools up before the line and then spills over the side onto the headliner. Any ideas for how to fix this?

The water pools up near the green arrow and then spills out over where the red is. (this is the driver side which actually works but the picture came out better on this one)

 

[Intuit]

@speedyspaghetti -

Thanks for posting up with yet another source of intrusion for people to consider.

Yes, that is exactly what happens when the tray dumps the water into the track, instead of the trough.

Can you push your sunroof screen all the way back or does it stop just before the handle? If you can shove it all the way back, I suspect this is a possible indicator of that tray being out of place.

Just be mindful of whether or not you're dumping the water onto the track, versus the tray, versus the trough. The tray and trough are good. The track will dump into the passenger cabin.

EDIT: Note, not all of the water hits the track. Some may hit the trough, some may hit the track. There is a ton of caulk/sealant/glue merging the plastic end to the aluminum metal track. Be sure to observe what happens as you have it out of the vehicle. Maybe there's a chance you'll discover something we haven't seen/reported.

 

[speedyspaghetti]

Hey @Intuit -

Thank you for all the help! I was able to resolve my issue. It seems like many others have had this issue, so I threw together a quick video to highlight what I found and how I removed the various parts. Hopefully this can help someone!

Here is the video:

View: https://youtu.be/4uqyRVPt_SQ

 

[Intuit]

@speedyspaghetti - Excellent contribution! 👍 I don't think I mentioned it, but it didn't seem like my sunroof bolt socket threads would safely take the full torque listed in the manual, without stripping. So I tightened them to max tolerance. Blue thread locker adhesive would work as well.

Added link to your post at beginning of thread.

 

[speedyspaghetti]

@speedyspaghetti - Excellent contribution! 👍 I don't think I mentioned it, but it didn't seem like my sunroof bolt socket threads would safely take the full torque listed in the manual, without stripping. So I tightened them to max tolerance. Blue thread locker adhesive would work as well.

Added link to your post at beginning of thread.

Thank you! Hope it helps someone! I noticed the same thing - all of mine did torque to the 80 in/lbs except for one where I felt it was going to strip so I just went by feel. They were definitely in there much looser when I removed it so I imagine the torque spec is not entirely necessary.

 

[bj2348]

Hey @Intuit -

Thank you for all the help! I was able to resolve my issue. It seems like many others have had this issue, so I threw together a quick video to highlight what I found and how I removed the various parts. Hopefully this can help someone!

Here is the video:

View: https://youtu.be/4uqyRVPt_SQ

This is hands down an AWESOME video. Concise and full of good info and tips. Bravo sir!

 

[speedyspaghetti]

This is hands down an AWESOME video. Concise and full of good info and tips. Bravo sir!

Thank you! Appreciate the kind words.