Was a Geo Prizm driver

[marty39]

Some time in 2018 my 1995 Geo Prizm started costing more in repairs than the projected depreciation on a new car, so I looked for a new car. I wanted a small car with a stick shift and some of the extras the Prizm didn't have, like climate control and built-in GPS navigation. These things don't generally come together; usually stick shift is bottom of the line. But Ford promised that I could get all I wanted in a Fiesta ST. I test-drove a 2019 Fiesta ST, gleefully shifting through all six speeds. That was my car. Except that it didn't have the built-in navigation that was promised on the website, so I have a Garmin stuck to the dash.

The car feels heavier than the Prizm. Steering is heavier. Shift lever is shorter and takes more effort. It's certainly faster than the Prizm, but the Prizm was quicker. I just noticed that I can partially disable ESC with a touch of a button, and the car seems to feel lighter without it. With a little more effort I can completely disable ESC.

What I want to know is: What's the difference between disabling ESC in the ST and driving a car that doesn't have electronic stability control (like the Prizm)? If the ST is unsafe with ESC disabled, should all cars without ESC be banned from the highways?

Funny note: Some time in the mid-twentieth century Ford was advertising with the slogan "There's a Ford in your future." I laughed. No way would I want to drive a Detroit boat powered by "Detroit iron." Fast forward; there was indeed a Ford in my future. (In case you're wondering how I know anything about the mid-twentieth century, I'm old. 92 years old. Still driving, and still ignoring yellow speed signs.)

 

[WannabeST]

I'm surprised you feel like the steering is heavier on a fiesta. I have never driven a GEO before but I imagine the steering must have been like a feather. The fiesta steering is way too light for my liking and I would like to add more resistance to it.

on the ESC, if you fully disable it you should full control of sending the car however you want without any electronic interfering. I personally drive my car with no stability control or abs activated. The SE ABS module is extremely intrusive and does not like repeated hard brakes. When you leave ESC fully engaged the car will pull power to avoid any situation where you may lose control. Partially disabling it will typically allow you to push farther but not too far. If you want to have full control like you did with your GEO, just disable ESC all the way.

 

[SteveS]

Prizm was quicker? Prizm 0-60 was 10.9 seconds and quarter mile 17.6 seconds. Top speed 117 mph (theoretical). 105 hp engine.
2019 Fiesta ST 0-60 is 6.9 seconds and quarter mile 14.9 seconds. Top speed 139 mph. 197 hp engine.

Although it's been a very long time since I've driven a Prizm, I don't think the shifter takes more effort. It's one of the easiest shifters to slip from gear to gear there is. If it's hard to move your shift lever on the FiST, there's something wrong with it.

As to steering effort, the FiST does have power steering but it is turning a 205/40-17 sticky performance tire compared to a 185/70-14 all season touring tire. It also has more negative camber (vs. positive camber on the Prizm) and more caster, both of which increase steering effort. But primarily what you are feeling is steering FEEL. The Prizm has typical numb Toyota steering. Maybe that's the reason the Prizm was made by NUMMI.

The Prizm has a suspension tuned to understeer when you try to go fast. Performance cars have suspensions tuned to be more neutral, even to have oversteer (rotate). They put ESC on them to keep idiots who are trying to drive too fast from spinning and wrecking themselves and other people. This has become more necessary with the modern higher powered cars that are more capable of getting themselves in trouble. Pickup trucks with 400hp are a prime example of vehicles that are made far safer with ESC in operation. Turning off the ESC in a FiST gives you a car capable of oversteer and spinning, and possibly even rolling over if you are autocrossing and not capable of controlling it.

 

[marty39]

... I have never driven a GEO before but I imagine the steering must have been like a feather....

... If you want to have full control like you did with your GEO, just disable ESC all the way.

The Geo Prizm was a rebadged Toyota Corolla. It handled the way I expected a small foreign car to handle.

I'm surprised to hear you say that about disabling ESC—just surprised, not skeptical. All the web pages I saw about ESC said it should never be fully disabled on the highway. That was what I was skeptical of.

I just looked up "HPDE instructor." That's "High Performance Driver Education." The only high performance driving education I ever had was reading "The Art and Technique of Driving" by Moss and Carlsson.

 

[D1JL]

Dave

 

[marty39]

Actually the Prizm was quicker 0–5 mph and 50 feet. When a traffic light turned green I would often be first into the intersection and overtaken before I crossed it. In the Fiesta ST, I'm the one who does that overtaking.

The shifter in the Fiesta has a shorter throw than the Prizm, and a perceptible detent. It's not hard to shift, just slower. The Prizm shifted with almost no resistance.

Funny you should say that about steering feel. The reviews I read about the Fiesta ST said its steering felt dead. Maybe the Prizm had no steering feel. As I recall it was extremely light.

But maybe it's age catching up with me. When I decided to get rid of the Prizm I was 86; now I'm 92. I'm a little slower. Maybe it's not the fault of the ST at all.

 

[WannabeST]

I applaud you for driving an ST at 92. That is awesome to hear

 

[Capri to ST]

Welcome to the Forum, and I'm also really impressed that you're still driving performance cars at 92 years of age.
I have been fortunate enough to have some great performance cars through the years, and this may be my favorite despite the fact that on paper it doesn't match up to them.

 

[marty39]

I applaud you for driving an ST at 92. That is awesome to hear

Thank you. I do what I can with it.

 

[marty39]

Welcome to the Forum, and I'm also really impressed that you're still driving performance cars at 92 years of age.
I have been fortunate enough to have some great performance cars through the years, and this may be my favorite despite the fact that on paper it doesn't match up to them.

"Still" driving performance cars? No, I think the ST was the first car I've owned that could be called a performance car—aside from a Triumph TR-3 I briefly owned back in the 1970s. I didn't buy the ST for performance. I bought it for its small size, its stick shift, and a few extra features; the performance came extra. My first car in fact was a low-performance car, a Renault Dauphine. It could barely make 50 mph against a headwind. But it could make a U-turn in a two-lane street by sliding the rear end. Marvelous oversteer—at an airport car rental when the last car available was a Chevy Corvair ("Unsafe at Any Speed") and the customer ahead of me refused it, I gladly accepted it.

Or maybe I misunderstood. Maybe insisting on a manual transmission is by itself performance driving. I have been doing that ever since I learned to drive.