Turbo Technics S280

[zumakid70cc]

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go s280 after I grab a lsd and accesstuner software this next tax season.

 

[MagnetiseST]

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go s280 after I grab a lsd and accesstuner software this next tax season.

why? Just get a reputable tuner.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Hey everyone! Over the summer I was thinking about upgrading my turbo, but I'm torn between this and the Whoosh Hybrid. I would still need to purchase the 11psi waste gate and TS Plumb Back shorties. I'm keeping stock downpipe (until I need a new one, then high flow cat) and not particularly planning on Aux fuel. I would like to keep daily drivability, that can sometimes be lost with big turbo. Was just wondering if I could get some opinions?

Honest opinion: The whoosh & other similar hybrids are going to give you more initial "oomph" and more "wow this is fast". They will peak more power (on a stock fuel system), than the S280 will, but they also stress the whole engine / transmission more than a non-hybrid turbo. More heat and initial torque, both not so great things.

The S280 has a bunch more head room than the hybrids, but it will peak lower in hot climates (I make 260-270 whp in Florida, unless its below 60*). You will need aux fuel to attain over those numbers. I love how smooth mine comes on, and I love the power delivery. Its a great turbo and I am very happy with it.

 

[JDG]

Honest opinion: The whoosh & other similar hybrids are going to give you more initial "oomph" and more "wow this is fast". They will peak more power (on a stock fuel system), than the S280 will...

I edited your post above to show the statements I disagree with.

I disagree with these statements. Peak power on a Fiesta ST with stock fueling is a known quantity. Both the whoosh turbos and the S280 can max out the stock fuel system (this has been proven time and time again) so the only things separating the two options are airflow potential and heat generated. We know that the S280 is more efficient because is it larger and can flow more air and those who speak to our tuners (who see multiple turbo options) are able to compare apples to apples datasets. The whoosh unit generates more heat as it flows above 30 lbs/min when compared to the s280.

The initial "oomph" you describe is the initial torque number. Here's an example I pulled on the vdyno in this thread of the whoosh hybrid turbo: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...lls-results-dynos-reviews-thread.19537/page-4



If you compare it to the host of graphs posted here: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...t-dyno-virtual-dyno-and-datalog-thread.22987/

You can see that you wouldn't notice the difference between the turbos if just driving the car between 2k-5k RPM. The additional headroom of the S280 above 5k RPM compared to the whoosh unit is just a bonus.

The fact that you say that the whoosh hybrid may be less reliable to your engine is true, as it becomes less efficient as people try to push them beyond 33 lbs/min of air above 6k RPM and adds additional heat to the system.

I'd ask that you clarify your statements and provide some more insight into why you made these statements. I truly cannot see a reason to get the whoosh unit when the S280 is just $100 more and includes additional components that you otherwise likely upgrade when buying the hybrid (i.e. hotside charge pipe).

 

[zumakid70cc]

why? Just get a reputable tuner.

Because I plan on learning to tune and it's the easiest way to start.

 

[Hypergram]

I edited your post above to show the statements I disagree with.

I disagree with these statements. Peak power on a Fiesta ST with stock fueling is a known quantity. Both the whoosh turbos and the S280 can max out the stock fuel system (this has been proven time and time again) so the only things separating the two options are airflow potential and heat generated. We know that the S280 is more efficient because is it larger and can flow more air and those who speak to our tuners (who see multiple turbo options) are able to compare apples to apples datasets. The whoosh unit generates more heat as it flows above 30 lbs/min when compared to the s280.

The initial "oomph" you describe is the initial torque number. Here's an example I pulled on the vdyno in this thread of the whoosh hybrid turbo: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...lls-results-dynos-reviews-thread.19537/page-4

View attachment 29490

If you compare it to the host of graphs posted here: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...t-dyno-virtual-dyno-and-datalog-thread.22987/

You can see that you wouldn't notice the difference between the turbos if just driving the car between 2k-5k RPM. The additional headroom of the S280 above 5k RPM compared to the whoosh unit is just a bonus.

The fact that you say that the whoosh hybrid may be less reliable to your engine is true, as it becomes less efficient as people try to push them beyond 33 lbs/min of air above 6k RPM and adds additional heat to the system.

I'd ask that you clarify your statements and provide some more insight into why you made these statements. I truly cannot see a reason to get the whoosh unit when the S280 is just $100 more and includes additional components that you otherwise likely upgrade when buying the hybrid (i.e. hotside charge pipe).

Honest opinion: The whoosh & other similar hybrids are going to give you more initial "oomph" and more "wow this is fast". They will peak more power (on a stock fuel system), than the S280 will, but they also stress the whole engine / transmission more than a non-hybrid turbo. More heat and initial torque, both not so great things.

The S280 has a bunch more head room than the hybrids, but it will peak lower in hot climates (I make 260-270 whp in Florida, unless its below 60*). You will need aux fuel to attain over those numbers. I love how smooth mine comes on, and I love the power delivery. Its a great turbo and I am very happy with it.

You've both given me a lot to think about. I'll go with the S280 then when the time comes since it seems to make the most sense from a cost and reliability perspective. Also I believe it needs the TS S280 14psi wastegate correct? It's in the drop down menu on whoosh and I think I read it's specific to the turbo. Also, this post got me to 1000!

 

[JDG]

You've both given me a lot to think about. I'll go with the S280 then when the time comes since it seems to make the most sense from a cost and reliability perspective. Also I believe it needs the TS S280 14psi wastegate correct? It's in the drop down menu on whoosh and I think I read it's specific to the turbo. Also, this post got me to 1000!

I’m still running the Turbo Technics wastegate that came on the turbo. No need to upgrade and over spin the turbo just yet. There may be a point where that happens, but I’m not there yet.


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[Se7eN]

Because I plan on learning to tune and it's the easiest way to start.

the Cobb software is not a good starting point for learning how to tune. just FYI

 

[zumakid70cc]

I understand that but considering I didn't grab a civic and toss a hondata ecu into it best I can do

 

[Hypergram]

I’m still running the Turbo Technics wastegate that came on the turbo. No need to upgrade and over spin the turbo just yet. There may be a point where that happens, but I’m not there yet.


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Wait, so a waste gate comes with the turbo when purchased from whoosh? I take it I need the Shortie BOV right?

 

[CarFanatic]

No a wastegate comes with s280 kit

 

[wetwea33]

No a wastegate comes with s280 kit

Yes it does... But I wouldint bother with the factory gate I have heard of people having issues with them and it won't hold boost up top as well. You typically want a spring that is around half of the amount of boost you are gonna run. You can use any bov that you want with this kit. It has a stock location adapter so all stock turbo bovs work. I switched to a symposer delete kit today.

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[MagnetiseST]

I’m still running the Turbo Technics wastegate that came on the turbo. No need to upgrade and over spin the turbo just yet. There may be a point where that happens, but I’m not there yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with this as well, I haven't changed mine either and see no need to without the aux fuel.

I edited your post above to show the statements I disagree with.

I disagree with these statements. Peak power on a Fiesta ST with stock fueling is a known quantity. Both the whoosh turbos and the S280 can max out the stock fuel system (this has been proven time and time again) so the only things separating the two options are airflow potential and heat generated. We know that the S280 is more efficient because is it larger and can flow more air and those who speak to our tuners (who see multiple turbo options) are able to compare apples to apples datasets. The whoosh unit generates more heat as it flows above 30 lbs/min when compared to the s280.

I am happy to discuss On the dyno graph you posted, it peaks at 298whp. Thats a good 30whp more than my S280. I have no idea what the climate was or the altitude, but I'd say its a good measure that most of us end up around 270whp with the bigger turbos since they flow more air and thus require more fuel at the same RPMs.

The initial "oomph" you describe is the initial torque number. Here's an example I pulled on the vdyno in this thread of the whoosh hybrid turbo:
You can see that you wouldn't notice the difference between the turbos if just driving the car between 2k-5k RPM. The additional headroom of the S280 above 5k RPM compared to the whoosh unit is just a bonus.

Also agreed, however from personal experiences I can tell you that my car does not pull as hard as the hybrid cars in that RPM range. I have raced a C39 car and an X47R car and both have pulled away from me fairly easily. Maybe its in the tune, maybe I'm not the best driver, but either way practical experience > dyno numbers. The additional headroom was also a selling point for me because I know I'll want more eventually.

The fact that you say that the whoosh hybrid may be less reliable to your engine is true, as it becomes less efficient as people try to push them beyond 33 lbs/min of air above 6k RPM and adds additional heat to the system.

If not properly managed with a good / great intercooler (CPE, BA, DHM Race etc) the heat levels will just cause more knock / detonation on repetitive pulls. Charge air temps exponentially increase on the hybrids where they do not on the S280 / other "big turbos". Plus the fact that a lot of sellers like to advertise their "depo" intercooler supporting 300+whp, it can't.

I'd ask that you clarify your statements and provide some more insight into why you made these statements. I truly cannot see a reason to get the whoosh unit when the S280 is just $100 more and includes additional components that you otherwise likely upgrade when buying the hybrid (i.e. hotside charge pipe).

I'd like to point out that I was not advocating for the whoosh or other hybrids in any way. I don't think they are worth the price when you can get an S280 for nearly the same price. I agree with that wholeheartedly and it is the main reason why I have the S280 vs a hybrid.

 

[JDG]

I agree with this as well, I haven't changed mine either and see no need to without the aux fuel.



I am happy to discuss On the dyno graph you posted, it peaks at 298whp. Thats a good 30whp more than my S280. I have no idea what the climate was or the altitude, but I'd say its a good measure that most of us end up around 270whp with the bigger turbos since they flow more air and thus require more fuel at the same RPMs.



Also agreed, however from personal experiences I can tell you that my car does not pull as hard as the hybrid cars in that RPM range. I have raced a C39 car and an X47R car and both have pulled away from me fairly easily. Maybe its in the tune, maybe I'm not the best driver, but either way practical experience > dyno numbers. The additional headroom was also a selling point for me because I know I'll want more eventually.



If not properly managed with a good / great intercooler (CPE, BA, DHM Race etc) the heat levels will just cause more knock / detonation on repetitive pulls. Charge air temps exponentially increase on the hybrids where they do not on the S280 / other "big turbos". Plus the fact that a lot of sellers like to advertise their "depo" intercooler supporting 300+whp, it can't.



I'd like to point out that I was not advocating for the whoosh or other hybrids in any way. I don't think they are worth the price when you can get an S280 for nearly the same price. I agree with that wholeheartedly and it is the main reason why I have the S280 vs a hybrid.

Point #1: I posted multiple dynographs earlier in this thread in the 290-298WHP range w/o aux fuel. Especially when it is cold out and the air density is good. Air mass is effectively another way of measuring horsepower. If a turbo flows more air, it won't make less horsepower. What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Point #2: Practical experience that introduces 100's of additional variables does certainly not trump real data. So yes, driver mod and other variables like traction and your tune are definitely factors here.

Point #3: We are saying the same thing.

Point #4: Understood, just wanted to provide a counter argument to many of your points since I disagree with them.

 

[wetwea33]

I agree with this as well, I haven't changed mine either and see no need to without the aux fuel.



I am happy to discuss On the dyno graph you posted, it peaks at 298whp. Thats a good 30whp more than my S280. I have no idea what the climate was or the altitude, but I'd say its a good measure that most of us end up around 270whp with the bigger turbos since they flow more air and thus require more fuel at the same RPMs.



Also agreed, however from personal experiences I can tell you that my car does not pull as hard as the hybrid cars in that RPM range. I have raced a C39 car and an X47R car and both have pulled away from me fairly easily. Maybe its in the tune, maybe I'm not the best driver, but either way practical experience > dyno numbers. The additional headroom was also a selling point for me because I know I'll want more eventually.



If not properly managed with a good / great intercooler (CPE, BA, DHM Race etc) the heat levels will just cause more knock / detonation on repetitive pulls. Charge air temps exponentially increase on the hybrids where they do not on the S280 / other "big turbos". Plus the fact that a lot of sellers like to advertise their "depo" intercooler supporting 300+whp, it can't.



I'd like to point out that I was not advocating for the whoosh or other hybrids in any way. I don't think they are worth the price when you can get an S280 for nearly the same price. I agree with that wholeheartedly and it is the main reason why I have the S280 vs a hybrid.

Coming from a c39, my car on 93 without aux felt faster then that did on e30... The hybrid on e50/aux has more tq then the s280 on 93/aux but didn't have the smae top end. The s280 on ethanol will be much faster. It also spools faster then my c39 did...

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[MagnetiseST]

Point #1: I posted multiple dynographs earlier in this thread in the 290-298WHP range w/o aux fuel. Especially when it is cold out and the air density is good. Air mass is effectively another way of measuring horsepower. If a turbo flows more air, it won't make less horsepower. What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Does this not imply that it would therefore require more fuel? I'm totally fine with being wrong. I am far and away from 290whp on 93oct. Sea level, but high temps.

This was one of my last logs, airflow maxes out at 29.44lb/min at the end of the log.

https://datazap.me/u/magnetisest/s280-revision-7?log=0&data=4-7

 

[wetwea33]

Does this not imply that it would therefore require more fuel? I'm totally fine with being wrong. I am far and away from 290whp on 93oct. Sea level, but high temps.

This was one of my last logs, airflow maxes out at 29.44lb/min at the end of the log.

https://datazap.me/u/magnetisest/s280-revision-7?log=0&data=4-7

Your almost 100 degree charge temps are the culprit for the lower numbers. Thats gonna make a huge difference in charge density. i remember with my hybrid that in the summer I would get significantly lower numbers and how the car felt 100% reflected it. Humidity will also hurt power. get better fuel or run meth to deal with the problem. This is a low compression small displacement motor with a pretty terrible head design. They dont like our low quality fuel and they dont like heat.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Your almost 100 degree charge temps are the culprit for the lower numbers. Thats gonna make a huge difference in charge density. i remember with my hybrid that in the summer I would get significantly lower numbers and how the car felt 100% reflected it. Humidity will also hurt power. get better fuel or run meth to deal with the problem. This is a low compression small displacement motor with a pretty terrible head design. They dont like our low quality fuel and they dont like heat.

Welp I better jump on installing my meth with my government money lol, I have it sitting in the garage. Waiting on some parts. No way around those charge temps here, it was probably around 80 degrees during the pull.

 

[Hypergram]

With the S280 on stock fuel system, how much of a difference does ethanol (e30) make? Trying to save a bit of cash on a tune so if e30 doesn't make much of a difference over 93 I can save the $80-100

 

[wetwea33]

With the S280 on stock fuel system, how much of a difference does ethanol (e30) make? Trying to save a bit of cash on a tune so if e30 doesn't make much of a difference over 93 I can save the $80-100

You wont see any difference. Would have to run less boost and you could make more timing as you will run out of fuel pretty fast.