Track Toy -- Keep Fiesta ST or Move to Mustang?

[weazsel]

Ah I wish I had this problem! I envy your "tough" decision!

I did a track day on my motorcycle back when I was into bikes and it literally is the most fun thing to do with your clothes on... or even off some might argue (less headaches!).

I'd absolutely have a dedicated track bike and car if there was a track that I didn't have to cross bridges and drive 4-8 hours to get to depending on traffic.

That being said I have one or two or three or seven or twelve days planned for the FiST this Spring! You know how it goes...

My buddy has a 2016 GT PP with Recaros that is sublime to drive. It's such a treat whenever I get behind the wheel. Perfect for a DD (sans NE snow!) AND a track toy but I wouldn't get it just for a dedicated track toy like everyone is saying.

 

[TheSixtyFive]

I'm looking for some thoughts on keeping my Fiesta ST vs getting a used Mustang GT as a streetable track toy and weekend fun car.

I currently have a 2018 Fiesta ST. When I bought it it was serving dual purpose as my DD and a track car. I'm now in a position where the FiST is no longer a DD, which got me thinking if I was going to have a dedicated toy, would I pick the FiST again? I've looked at many different cars, but don't fit with a helmet in the typical Miata or BRZ suggestions. I've narrow things down to keeping my FiST or going with a 2005-2009 Mustang GT. The value of my FiST and the Mustangs of that generation are about the same.



I've been doing HPDE for a year now and will be adding autox to the mix this year. I plan to do 6-10 HPDE this year and as many autox as I can squeeze in. In addition I'm looking for a "project" of sorts. Something I can work on and tinker with to improve the car as I get better. One of my concerns is will I outgrow the FiST and its front wheel drive when doing HPDE events.

So, has anyone gone for a FiST to Mustang or vice versa? What are you thoughts on keeping the FiST vs moving to a Mustang? If you've been running a FiST for a while do you ever feel like you are outgrowing the car on the tracK?

Thanks.
Paul

Keep the FiST forever!...

 

[M-Sport fan]

I'd absolutely have a dedicated track bike and car if there was a track that I didn't have to cross bridges and drive 4-8 hours to get to depending on traffic.

You can thank the greedy asshole land developers, and the snooty local neighbors' noise complaints for Bridgehampton being now long gone.
Shame too, since it was one of the sweetest road courses on the planet with some long straights, and nice elevation changes.

Given the single road out to there, and depending on how far west you are located in Suffolk Co., it could STILL have taken you 4+ hours of stop and go to get there in the summer with all of the East End vacay traffic.

 

[kevinatfms]

At this point Mustang is out of the picture. I'm down to keep the Fiesta or move to a Miata.

Good choice. I used to track a 2005 Mustang GT that was prepped. Terrible car in every way, shape and form. The 3 link is a disaster and only with a proper Watts Link(not the garbage on sale now) would the car behave properly. NVH is bad on a track only car, on the 05-09 Mustang its 1000x worse. Noise from every orifice, nook and cranny.

Transmission, even when built, was garbage. The 3 valve motor had some pull but was outclassed in every way by the 5.0L only a few years later. Even with C&L intake manifold, FRPP heads and cams it was a slug and put down just south of 400whp.
The factory 12" brakes were junk, the 14" Brembo setup from a GT500 was nice but expensive on the consumables. Tires in 275/40R18 werent cheap at all and with as much camber and weight on the car it ate them apart.

I went to the Fist for a daily and havent looked back. Everything is cheaper and easier on the car(minus the brakes). Once i find a happy medium on the pads/fluid combo i think the Fist will be a perfect long term toy. I can also trailer my Fist easier with my Colorado than the Mustang since it fits on a smaller/lighter trailer.

 

[Paul_H]

Good choice. I used to track a 2005 Mustang GT that was prepped. Terrible car in every way, shape and form. The 3 link is a disaster and only with a proper Watts Link(not the garbage on sale now) would the car behave properly. NVH is bad on a track only car, on the 05-09 Mustang its 1000x worse. Noise from every orifice, nook and cranny.

Transmission, even when built, was garbage. The 3 valve motor had some pull but was outclassed in every way by the 5.0L only a few years later. Even with C&L intake manifold, FRPP heads and cams it was a slug and put down just south of 400whp.
The factory 12" brakes were junk, the 14" Brembo setup from a GT500 was nice but expensive on the consumables. Tires in 275/40R18 werent cheap at all and with as much camber and weight on the car it ate them apart.

I went to the Fist for a daily and havent looked back. Everything is cheaper and easier on the car(minus the brakes). Once i find a happy medium on the pads/fluid combo i think the Fist will be a perfect long term toy. I can also trailer my Fist easier with my Colorado than the Mustang since it fits on a smaller/lighter trailer.

For the track I'm running dedicated rotors and Carbotech XP10s up front and XP8s in the rear with stock calipers. Was very happy with their performance at VIR this past year. Only issue was I melted the dust boots on the stock front calipers. Otherwise no fade that I could detect. Going to try removing the dust shields and trying some Boomba brake air deflectors to see if that keeps the dust seals intact.

After some other offline conversations, I think the FiST is going to be the car I go with. It seems to be the best compromise between pure fun and still comfortable to drive to track events. I think I was overestimating outgrowing the FiST because of its FWD. With my $8k play budget I can get a lot of seat time and do some serious mods if I want, but that's for another thread.

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate them!
Paul

 

[theblue]

one thing to watch for is that you might be cooking the seals not while on track, but once you come in from your session and temps have not come down enough.

Removing the dust shields is pretty much as must with those levels of pads and heat transfer.

 

[alexrex20]

Tires
Brakes
Radiator
LSD
6pt brace

Done.

And well under $8k

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[tyhackman15]

Tires
Brakes
Radiator
LSD
6pt brace

Done.

And well under $8k

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I'd add oil cooler to the top of the last, personally.

 

[alexrex20]

With an upgraded radiator, most folks can't get their oil temperature to overheat.

But the more fluid cooling, the better. I would make sure it's on a thermostat though, especially in colder climates.

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[theblue]

Alex, a little off topic, but do these cars have a history of problems with oil starvation on track once setup and able to pull some good Gs ?

 

[GotVic]

Stock, these little FiSTs punch way above their weight class. With a few mods, I think our little cars could be absolutely fantastic. What's been said about these lighter cars being easier on the expendables like tires and brakes is no joke.

My recent experience: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/12628-Vic-s-16-FiST?p=327309&viewfull=1#post327309

On the big end, the Mustang will be a better track car: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7806
Fair was able to get some really good times out of the s197 chassis. It's not cheap though.

I'm sticking with my little FiST for the time being. Maybe I'll do an LS swapped E36 or pick up a used C6/Z06 in a few years.

 

[alexrex20]

Alex, a little off topic, but do these cars have a history of problems with oil starvation on track once setup and able to pull some good Gs ?

I'm probably not the best person to be asking but I've never heard of it.

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[tyhackman15]

The one thing I will say about miata vs Fiesta, is that if I was going to get more serious about tracking my Fiesta, I'd add some rollover protection asap. I can't imagine an off track spin into some dirt, grass, or sand ending well in one of these little things. They are pretty dang narrow. I know the group B fits and mazda 2s roll over quite often lol.

Some proper race seats would do a lot of lowering the COG, since you sit about a foot off the floor with the factory seats. But still, tall and narrow, comparatively.

Edit, B spec not group B

 

[maestromaestro]

Well, as someone who came off the track last week a couple of times (with the third one being when I lost the brakes all of a sudden), I can assure you that FiSTs are not inherently prone to rollovers.

That said, you can roll any car under certain circumstances. I have seen 911s flipped when they went sideways into soaked dirt and one of the wheels caught.

So - installation of a roll cage is a very worthy safety measure, but not because it's the FiST.

The one thing I will say about miata vs Fiesta, is that if I was going to get more serious about tracking my Fiesta, I'd add some rollover protection asap. I can't imagine an off track spin into some dirt, grass, or sand ending well in one of these little things. They are pretty dang narrow. I know the group B fits and mazda 2s roll over quite often lol.

Some proper race seats would do a lot of lowering the COG, since you sit about a foot off the floor with the factory seats. But still, tall and narrow, comparatively.

 

[tyhackman15]

Well, as someone who came off the track last week a couple of times (with the third one being when I lost the brakes all of a sudden), I can assure you that FiSTs are not inherently prone to rollovers.

That said, you can roll any car under certain circumstances. I have seen 911s flipped when they went sideways into soaked dirt and one of the wheels caught.

So - installation of a roll cage is a very worthy safety measure, but not because it's the FiST.

I've seen a few photos of them on 2 wheels in autox. They have a higher COG than most "sports" cars, that's all I'm saying.

Any car can definitely roll, but it's common sense that some are at a higher risk than others.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/07/barks-bites-fist-rollover-risk-people-dont-want-know/

But, not trying to get off topic. I track my fiesta and will continue to. But I wouldn't throw hoosiers on it lol.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I know the group B fits and mazda 2s roll over quite often lol.

You do mean B-Spec class Fits above, correct?
(There were no Group B Fits, since that was WAY BEFORE their 'time', nor were there any other Nippon marques in the old Group B class, albeit Toyota was developing a first gen MR2 for the stillborn Group S class. )

 

[M-Sport fan]

The one thing I will say about miata vs Fiesta, is that if I was going to get more serious about tracking my Fiesta, I'd add some rollover protection asap. I can't imagine an off track spin into some dirt, grass, or sand ending well in one of these little things. They are pretty dang narrow. I know the group B fits and mazda 2s roll over quite often lol.

Some proper race seats would do a lot of lowering the COG, since you sit about a foot off the floor with the factory seats. But still, tall and narrow, comparatively.

A fully tied-in, triangulated, multi-point cage would also negate the need for all of the aftermarket add on chassis/unibody/subframe braces everyone on here touts as absolutely a requisite for great handling/response/traction.

But then, of course, the FiST ceases to be a 'streetable' ride.

 

[tyhackman15]

You do mean B-Spec class Fits above, correct?
(There were no Group B Fits, since that was WAY BEFORE their 'time', nor were there any other Nippon marques in the old Group B class, albeit Toyota was developing a first gen MR2 for the stillborn Group S class. )

haha yes B spec. Too many group B videos lately has rally on the mind.

 

[Bizzareo]

So one thing you also have to ask yourself. Whatever car you decide to use, are you comfortable with completely writing it off and eating the cost?

You might be able to get something a bit older, and modify it without feeling guilt if you throw the car into a wall.

And at the price range you are at, you could get into a legends racer etc.

 

[Dpro]

Well in terms of all out track car Miata’s are pretty much on it. Though it depends on what you want your track car to be.
BRZ awesome handling really poor on power. Sad kind of Toyota and Suburu so could have done the car right but chickened out in the engine department. Miata wins in this as its lighter in track form.

FiST is a corner monster and a great dual purpose car. In the end its up to you.
Like others have said if you are going full track car I would be looking at something that is not a new or three year vehicle unless money is no issue and you don’t mind swallowing a new car an the mods to make it a track machine.
My FiST was bought first off as the fun daily that takes me out of driving my more serious sports cars and at the same time delivers the spirited driving I appreciate.
The added benefit was it can be the drive to the track or autocross weekend warrior car. Of course again the Miata falls into that as well. Difference is I am not a convertable fan. Lol