Track day tire thread

[RAAMaudio]

When you get used to it and know what the temps should feel like you can do a quick check for pressure with a touch of your hand on the outside, middle and inside of the contact patch plus look to see if they are rolling over.

For autocross and a quick run on a back road the cheap infrared meter from Harbor Freight works great as the heat does not penetrate as deep as it does not a road race course where a regular pyrometer is best. I have a little pocket infrared unit I got a Sears years ago that I use for quick measurements.

Temps even and not rolling over leave as is.

Hot on the outside, more camber or more air or might need less toe inn.

Hot on the middle, less air.

Hot on the inside, less camber or more toe in.

Hot on outside and middle, likely air and camber or toe and air or a bit of all three.

Hot in middle and inside, likely air, camber, toe, etc....a combination of two or three.

Over driving the tires will cause heat issues as well of course.

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Make sure to find the real specs on the tires, you cannot use the sidewall markings, they are very arbitrary.

The Advan A048 in that size mentioned has an 8.0 section and 7.8 tread width, as wide as some 225 tires and would work even better on an 8" wide wheel.

The Yoko is a great tire but pretty expensive, for those wanting to save a bit take a look at the R888 in that size, 7.3" tread width, $40 less per tire, they last a long time as do not heat cycle out so can use them down to the cords.

Thats if for today, off the work on the car before it hits 113 degrees today, ouch!

 

[BronxBomber]

Had a track day 5/29/16 at Streets of Willow In California. Temps were 94 degrees at its hottest. I ran the Yokohama Advan A048 tires in 195/50/16 on 16x7 wheels. This is in comparison to the Re71R I was running last time in 205/45/16.

The yokohama's took one lap to get warmed up and two laps to be really sticky. The grip was incredible for a 195 tire. I was absolutely blown away by it. Corner exit was improved greatly as I was able to put the power down without any of the wheels spinning. Before I felt like I needed an lsd with the stock turbo but now with an R compound I do not think it is necessary until one upgrades their turbo. I got the tires heat cycled by tire rack before using them and they seem to have a much better lifespan then the re71r. running the bridgstone it looked like one could get 3-4 track days (if that is all they were used for) out of them. I only got 2 track days since I also used them as a daily tire. So they lasted me 7k miles in total. The Yokohama still has great life and upon further inspection of the tire wear and studying the photos taken at the track the tread wear is actually pretty spot on at the front. In the back the outside is worn a little more but there isn't much wear compared to the front (running -3.3 degrees of camber in the front). The tires have great grip that you can see the sidewalls flexing in the photos (I still need to purchase them and I will post later). The Re71r did not flex as much thus causing more slide. Also when comparing photos of the car in action, with the Re71r it doesn't look like my car has any body roll. With the Yokohama's you can clearly see the body roll. Also I ran 28 psi front and 30 psi rear cold temps. When hot I was getting 38 front and 38 rear with nitrogen in the tires (bleed out multiple times to reduce the amount of oxygen in the tires).

I feel the Yokohama will last at least 6 track days with tread life. So it will be a matter of how many heat cycles they can take. It is a great upgrade for a track only tire without going to an 8 inch rim. Keeps everything light weight on the rotating mass. As you can see from the pictures the 195 fills up the 7 inch wide wheel pretty good. I honestly thought there was going to be some stretch but there wasn't.

car looks really good with those slipstreams in white and those tires. I like how you painted the ADVAN on them. I know this thread is not about looks, rather performance of tires for track, but looks good none the less.

 

[Siestarider]

I second Bombers post, those tires just look cool. Especially the tread. Serious cool.

 

[RAAMaudio]

They are bad ass tires no doubt, my post was about other options to consider but I would not be unhappy on track with these tire"_

 

[Phreak]

Your choices are not right for a dedicated set of track tires, if that is what you want.

Hoosier A6/7 for Autox or R6/7 for extended track day use. Kuhmo V710's are also a very nice option. Every tire you listed will be slower than a true slick by a lot.

End of thread...

Just wanted to add something here. I respectfully disagree with an A6 being the best tire for AutoX, but not for the reason you might think. Yes, there is no doubt it would be faster... but the problem is it would bump you out of the H-Street class and into something where the Fiesta wouldn't be as competitive. If you want to be competitive with the Fiesta, the best tire for AutoX is the Bridgestone RE-71R.

The Dunlop is a good option, but on a 60 second course the Bridgestone is about a second quicker. Toyo is also working on something apparently that will rival it, but I still haven't seen anything launched yet. It was kind of sad at the Canadian Nationals last year, Toyo sponsored it and virtually nobody ran their tire, lol.

 

[RAAMaudio]

It all depends on what you are doing with the car, the stickiest tires may not be what you can run for the class you are in and they cost considerably more.

I choose to run the RA1 as very fast, no sudden break away like stickier tires can do, last a great deal longer and I get take offs barely used from race teams for $400 a set shipped. When I start doing Time Trials I will run the A7 most likely, it is not the best HPDE tire as will overheat if used lap after lap going all out, it is an autocross tire as is the V710 and both work for TT events buy not road racing or HPDE as well.

 

[Pete]

Thanks everyone! Here are a few pictures of the tires in action

 

[Phreak]

Great pictures, car looks like it is just flying!

 

[RAAMaudio]

PB help.
1) take off the mud flaps
2) raise the wing a couple of inches so enough air goes under it to help it function better.

It is a cosmetic more than functional wing so running without it might be best but is has a somewhat proper shape but needs more air under it to create usable downforce, at least that is how it looks in the pictures and I have seen the profile of the wing design. Also the end plates are not perpendicular to the wind which is creating drag.

 

[Pete]

PB help.
1) take off the mud flaps
2) raise the wing a couple of inches so enough air goes under it to help it function better.

It is a cosmetic more than functional wing so running without it might be best but is has a somewhat proper shape but needs more air under it to create usable downforce, at least that is how it looks in the pictures and I have seen the profile of the wing design. Also the end plates are not perpendicular to the wind which is creating drag.

The mudflaps help prevent tons of rock chips on the side. I ran without them on my last two track days and noticed all the stuff on the sides (lots of melted rubber too). The wing I plan on raising if and when I get a carbon fiber hatch. I've been playing around with making new endplates already

 

[RAAMaudio]

Did not mean to sound quite like I did, intention is to help you out if I can


Painters tape works great for rock chip prevention and will let you be a bit faster.

I believe it is 3M that has a spray on coating that is pretty good and will peel off if needed but designed to leave on for quite a while, I might get some and try it.

You could make some temp risers out of sheet aluminum, paint black, get more wing effect, barely any cost or time involved and you can then tell if any improvements or not.

CF hatch sounds cool, looks cool saves weight but for the money you would benefit more by taking weight off the front of the car, CF hood, battery to the rear, misc stuff you can take off and not need like engine cover, engine pulling hooks, DHM crash bar and IC only weigh around 4lbs more than stock IC and bumper beam.

CF hatches I have had and seen all ended up being a problem with sealing, warping, etc.....but perhaps better now.

Just some random thoughts, ideas, experience, etc...

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I do appreciate your posts and sharing the track fun with us, that is the all time best place to really enjoy a car all out the safest way possible and to me the most fun compared to any other events (love dirt but hard on cars and much more dangerous, done lots of that as well)

 

[M-Sport fan]

Just out of curiosity, WHAT is it about his mud flaps, functionally, that slows him down, aero drag???

 

[MS67]

3M paint defender "spray on clear bra" is no longer on the market. It was such a pain in the ass to use that average Joe just couldn't get decent results, so they pulled it. Just FYI.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Too bad about the paint defender, it would of been a fairly easy track day mod from waht I have read, not really caring about looks as much as sure better than blue tape

Clear bra stuff would be next in line to help and more permanent.

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Take a look at the vast majority of very fast race cars where purposely stop the fender flares high behind the tires on a great deal of them, it is a big drag at speed.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Take a look at the vast majority of very fast race cars where purposely stop the fender flares high behind the tires on a great deal of them, it is a big drag at speed.

OK, fair enough.

I'm guessing it will not hurt at street and autocross speeds?

That way IF I ever do track days/HPDEs/open tracking with this thing, I can take them off.

As fugly as they may be, they are a REQUIREMENT (MINE) for; SCCA Rallycross, and for working/marshalling on stage roads at Rally America events.

 

[M-Sport fan]

CF hatch sounds cool, looks cool saves weight but for the money you would benefit more by taking weight off the front of the car, CF hood, battery to the rear, misc stuff you can take off and not need like engine cover, engine pulling hooks, DHM crash bar and IC only weigh around 4lbs more than stock IC and bumper beam.

I CANNOT STAND engine covers, but I have heard from some that on certain cars/apps they actually DO serve some kind of purposeful/necessary function, besides just 'dumbing down' an engine compartment for those who are afraid of them.

IF that (the functionality factor) is NOT the case on these cars, mine will be GONE as soon as i take delivery of the car.

 

[RAAMaudio]

DI fuel injection is a bit noisy but I live with it to save the weight of the cover and now hood liner after I installed the CF hood. This is my project car, track car, use it on the road here and there, I can accept some noises that others night not but I still insist on none or barely any exhaust drone

Engine covers, especially on this car, help hide an ugly engine, which this car has, I would rather see it than carry around weight up front.

I absolutely understand the flaps for rallycross and marshalling, of course, some of the most crazy racing and at times working racing of all time!

 

[mister2dood]

What kind of experience to people have with daily driving + occasional autocross and track days on the RE-71R? I'm wondering if I'd be able to get 4000 - 5000 miles of street driving plus a few autocross events and 1 or 2 track days out of a set...

 

[Pete]

What kind of experience to people have with daily driving + occasional autocross and track days on the RE-71R? I'm wondering if I'd be able to get 4000 - 5000 miles of street driving plus a few autocross events and 1 or 2 track days out of a set...

I was able to get 6,000 miles with the re71r's with two track days and daily driving, with a good amount of canyon drives.

 

[Siestarider]

Pete started this with good direction, but not a lot of posts about good street to track tires yet. So I will add my experience with BFG SC-2's in 205/45/16 and 17. I run as hard as the car will let me on track, and a little easier on street than most of us.

My 16" SC-2's heat cycled out before street legal tread was worn away. By that I mean they became too slippery on track to get within 2 secs of PB on same tires when they were young. Roughly 10 track days (less than 1000 miles on track) and 10,000 street miles on street. Good wear for value tire, and good stick on track, these are the tires I started learning on.

Couple weeks ago I ran 17" SC-2, although focus for me was experimenting with damper adjustments, the tires were just as good in 17" as 16". This set has 15,000 street miles and at least one track day by prior owner. They have about the same remaining tread as the 16's that heat cycled out, but are still sticky once hot.

Now trying to decide whether its better to just pick a good inexpensive street/track tire (like Firestone 500, Federal 595 or BGF SC) stick with it and focus on the rest of the car.

Or keep chasing tires/PB's while focusing on the rest of the car, which costs more but is fun in its own right.

Or keep OEM wheels on street tires, 17" Kosei's on a street/track tire, and 16" OZ on track/street tires. Ok, door #3 it is. Now just need some hot shoes to post about their experience with track/street tires.

Edit: I changed terminology from street/track to track/street because the quickest track tires that are still street usable seem a different animal and not fair to directly compare to street tires that handle track duty well. In this terminology street/track would be BFG SC-2' and track/street BFG Rival S.