Track Battery

[Pete]

On my previous car Porsche 944 I removed the mechanic water pump and installed a davis craig electric water pump. In the process I removed the balance shafts, and ended up using a honda accord timing belt. After the fact it only cost my $17 to change the timing belt and 30 minutes instead of $400 for 2 belts and all the pullies, and 4 hours. I have been contemplating on doing the same thing to the fiesta when it comes time to change the belts. Although space is a bit more cramped. What is cool about the electric water pump is that you can set it for what temperature you like for better mpg or better performance. Another trick I did was change the direction of water flow so the head would be cooled first resulting in being able to add more timing. With our cars it would mean more boost and timing throttle response was amazing on that car after I did this upgrade.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Pete,
Great post!

I have not used the Davis Craig pump, yet, and not considered reversing the flow but not used an electric pump on a boosted engine before either but it would work the same on NA as well if the water flow was as the 944.

I love the changes to the Porsche away from the $400 belt change cost
------

I love the 944, turbo version 928, Cayman, cars with engines in the right places, never wanted a high end VWP....

 

[RAAMaudio]

Oops, duplicate post, slow connection here confused me

After considering all I have to take care of, space, weight, high end alarm now installed, a bit more weight in the rear I can live with for better front to rear balance(I have taken out a lot more weight from the rear than the front) and advice from the battery company I decided on this battery.

Deka EXT30L, $97.99, same battery as a the Big Crank but got it for a bit less, more than enough to meet my needs and they recommended it over the 925 Odyssey at $160.

I also ordered a CTEK US 800 tender as a very good brand and better than the Battery Tender in the same price range, just $33.99.

Free shipping as well so just $131.98

For those looking at the Braille batteries, you can do just as well for much less money

Adding 9 lbs to the rear over the 14 series Deka/Big Crank I have been using but taking off another 12 lbs or so with the CF hood helps balance the car better as I have taken far more weight off the rear than the front and added the big turbo, big radiator, oil cooler, etc.....

 

[Siestarider]

Maybe a moderator can move the water pump stuff to the water pump thread.

My internet poking found a lot of myths exposed. like slowing down coolant flow will increase radiator efficiency. No.

Cavitation at high rpm is a major problem. No

Want to loose more heat through existing radiator? pump water faster through it, at least up to some rational pressure/pump loss. Yes, pretty simple physics.

 

[Wimp Lo]

If we can get cogs to run a wider timing belt, we might be able to do a four lobe HPFP drive cam.

I would love to get the power target I want without aux fuel so that I don't have dueling ECUs each controlling half the fuel.

 

[Levi1.0]

Hmm, track batteries to water pumps... Haha. But wait! There is a connection! An electric water pump will put an additional draw on the electrical system, so if you think the system is gonna struggle with a small battery, the electric water pump won't help.
...anyone know how much amperage the normal car draws while running? ...with or without any accessories.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I love this thread and fine if it stays as is and helps spawn new threads on each issue and connections to the other.....but we probably should have a new thread or two

---------------

Idea,'
Track battery permanently installed.
Street battery with quick disconnect for cables and mounts.

Run both on the street or use a disconnect switch for the track battery if needed, if both mounted close together not much added weight.

 

[Levi1.0]

That's a good simple solution to the dilemma.

I would love a high capacity lithium battery and a 100ish watt flexible solar panel on the roof. When the 1.0 drops to 12.5v mode, basically turning the alternator off, it makes a huge difference in performance and fuel mileage. So the longer I can get it to stay in that mode, the better.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have been looking at flexible panels for the RV for aero and weight reasons and best quality for the cost inverter/charger but have not found what I would invest in at this time as the marketing departments add so much BS is takes some effort to sift and find the truth.

I have also looked into a flex panel for the FiST to keep the battery charged while also powering fans to keep the big doggies cool when we have to leave them in the car.

 

[Siestarider]

Whatever caused the "clicking" in dash quit. PC680 still working like OEM far as I can tell, yesterday rain all day so wipers and light on at every start, still all short trips, none over 3 miles in past week.

I tried to find real #'s on current draw to start. Best I can tell, starting begins with a surge that draws full amperage from battery (ie battery itself limits amps for milliseconds) and once starter begins spinning flywheel its drawing between 150-200 amps in our cars. Definitely at the limits of a 170 CCA battery, but still working for me.

But not exactly any extra capacity in it, thus water pump questions in separate thread. I checked out electric options and dropped that line of inquiry because I want the battery to at least have a fair chance of working.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was going to install the 680 I have but when hooked up to top it up a fault light lit up on the CTEK US 3300 charger, I will try the CTEK US 800 on it when it arrives as it is rated for AGM batteries and the 3300 is only for lead acid but it charged up the 925 just fine and I disconnected it as soon as charged. The rating on the 680 is pretty similar to the Deka 14 series batteries.

The 14 series Deka(Big Crank label, same battery) started the car in 8 degree weather but it was a bit slow to turn over, PC 680 should do the same as I have known many that have used them year round in cold climates.

I will soon have WMI, HID projectors and a low weight modular easy to remove for the track audiophile sound system so had to go to a bigger battery and pretty sure the 30 series Deka will do the job but I will have to take care not to run it to low when engine off and audio on for demo use.
I used to have a 3800 watt ultra high end audio install in my old demo Tacoma that did fine on a 120 alt and single Optima battery that lasted for many years. It had two big capacitors engineered for car audio use and 1/0 power cables.

 

[PhoenixM3]

When I autocrossed my E46 M3 in San Diego, I used this exact battery. Of course the weather never got cold enough to be concerned. I imagine it will do just fine in the ST.

 

[Levi1.0]

RAAM: what's a WMI? ...is there a thread on here that I can learn all these abbreviations? Haha.

When your car is running, the alternator handles all of the electrical needs. So you just need a battery that can reliably start your car. If it can do that, you'll be ok, even for a DD.

...trying to run your radio and things with the car off is another story.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Sorry, 20 years in the Navy, acronyms are part of how I communicate at times.

WMI: water/meth injection

With all the circuits in a modern car, adding a likely high current draw WMI pump(have not read the specs) etc.......best to not skimp to much on the battery or rely on just the alternator, more so since I have heard some stories of failed factory alts.

I meant to test the output of my alt today but been time, will do it tomorrow.

 

[McRib 1s Back]

Hey, RAAM, all! The Pegasus LiFePO4 battery has done well in my track car (only 8.4 pounds, in a custom battery box). It held a strong charge after several months without being used. Slow discharge is a defining characteristic of this chemistry type. It reliably cranks every time and is battle proven in many race cars.


http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Ford-Fiesta-ST/i-VQ2GqtM/0/L/IMG_8236-L.jpg

 

[Wimp Lo]

I wasn't driving my car for a while and the battery went flat. I'm going to be driving it regularly now so instead of replace a heavy old battery I went for an Odyssey PC535 as I mentioned earlier.

The battery compares pretty well to the PC680 which is the Fiesta R2 rally car battery, higher rated in one category, lower in another but very close numbers and it weighs less.

There is another one that is taller and beats the PC680 in all categories but the polarity is the same as the PC680. The PC535 polarity is flipped.

Since its a sealed battery they say they can be mounted in any orientation. I choose flat on its back so the CG is as low as possible and with terminal adapters to make the posts vertical when the battery is laid down like that.

The problem is our battery tray is much larger than the PC535 so I had to make a spacer.

I will make a modified battery tray in the future but for now it is in there with an easy to make spacer.

The battery needs 3/4" of space on the passenger side, 1.5" front, 1.5" back and 3" vertical.

Wanting to make something fast, I decided to lift the battery toward the cables which goes against my low CG but this is temporary.

What I did was go to the home improvement store, I found some wood that was actually 1.5" square (dimensional lumber is rarely cut to round numbers) and then I cut four lengths 7" long, two lengths 9" long and I got a piece of 3/4" thick board 5" by 6". Also required are six 3" wood screws and two 2" wood screws.

The spacer is built in three layers.

The bottom layer is two 7" pieces running right to left in the car.

The middle layer is two 9" pieces running front to back over the top of the lower pieces (with the passenger side piece inset 3/4" toward the driver side.

Assemble those two layers outside the car using four 3" screws that go from the bottom side of the 7" pieces up through the 9" pieces to create sort of a Jenga parallelogram (with the passenger side inset and everything else aligned along the edges).

The top layer is another two 7" pieces. One piece will float behind the battery in the battery box, the front piece needs to be screwed in along the front edge of the spacer, directly above the front piece on the bottom layer. Assemble this outside the car with two 3" screws. I angled my screws toward the rear of the car for this connection to avoid hitting the first set of screws.

Finally take the 3/4" sheet and screw it with two 2" screws to the inset 9" piece making it flush with the 7" board edges.

With all that done, the spacer fits tightly side to side in the battery box with a little forward and back play. Once the battery is in place with the floating spacer behind it, everything is very snug and the stock battery hold down will clamp it securely.

The bad news is after that it is a real pain to get the positive battery cable connected to the terminal. It is possible but I wound up having to detach the adapter terminal from the battery, attach the cable to the terminal (with the clamp pointing about 45° toward the rear) and then with the battery hold down strap off I was able to tweak everything enough to line up the terminal adapter and screw it down to the battery. The negative terminal was a piece of cake after that, then I replaced the hold down strap and everything is very secure.

So that is my temporary race battery install. It took me about 1.5 hours to design/build/install the spacer system and race battery. That could be cut down a lot with my lessons learned and the spacer already designed.

I hope this was helpful and I'll update with any additional info or good/bad experiences.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Cool, I had not looked at that battery before, good find and use

I went back up in size, just got a new Deka EXT30L which is pretty close to the specs of the 925 Odyssey but lower weight and nearly half the cost, they sold both and recommended it over the Odyssey though I would of bought either one. I have a high end alarm in the car now, installing two small 12 volt fans to help keep the dogs cool(controlled by the alarm remote) when I have to leave them in the car when a bit warm out and it will have a efficient, low weight, audiophile sound system someday in the future.

Since mine is in the rear of the car and I need more rear weight bias it will help out a bit, that and the Li battery I wanted was just too expensive for now or I would of used it and then had to find another way to take more weight out of the front but there is very little left I could do. I am installing a CF hood when I get the time, it is with us in the RV and will have the WMI kit in the rear and use the resv for the window washers so can take the stock one out of the front of the car.

Not sure when I will get to corner weigh the car again, my scales are in storage in NV, no place to work on it there and likely not as we are probably not going to have a house for a few years, just RVing around....last time on the scales it was 2575lbs, it should be close to that, perhaps a bit lower.

Time to pack up the RV and hit the road in an hour or two, next leg of the adventure, will be in Tucson tomorrow, anybody there get in touch, will be around Phoenix after that for awhile as well

 

[Wimp Lo]

A week and a half in and the PC535 battery is doing fine.

It starts strong, I don't notice any ticking noises which others have reported and it acts like stock.

The weather has been a bit warm but there have been a couple mornings with frost on the windshield so a few cold starts. It has turned over fine every time.

 

[RAAMaudio]

You should be just fine with that battery but if it got much colder and you left it parked for days at a time I would recommend a charger designed for AGM batteries, I found one for under $40.

Glad you are having good luck with it)
Rick

 

[Wimp Lo]

It is truly a daily driver so it should not sit for more than two days unless I'm out of town.

I'm thinking of adding a disconnect for those rare times that it does sit a while. A little top up before I put it back in action should make sure it lasts a long time.