TPMS problem with NEW wheels and tires...

[Blindeye_03]

I bought a set of 16" wheels and all season tires recently and today installed them since its getting colder out.

Everything went fine (there isnt much to screw up..) but after I put the tires on I tried to program the TPMS with the Ford tool that Tire Rack sells (they also sold me the wheels/tires). Before anyone asks, I followed the procedure in the manual and it asked me to program the drivers side front tire first. Nothing from the tool. Well okay..it does say to drive 20mph for 2 minutes. I drove 30mph sustained for about 3 minutes. It was pretty tough with the twisty backroads and loads of traffic at this time of day.

I got back home and tried it again wiht the sensor and it wouldnt program. I then tried to let air out of the tire like I did when I rotated the stock tires at 5k miles. I know I am doing this right... Letting air out isnt rocket science. I had to stop when the tire got down to 20 psi from 40psi. I did this twice (filled it up again..) and it still wont program.

So I am looking at three possibilities:

1. TPMS are faulty
2. Tirerack didnt put TPMS in the tires
3. I didnt drive enough to trigger the car to be programmed <-- is this even possible??

I dont want to call tirerack and take the car somewhere if this is just me doing something wrong..

Thanks for the help.


Edit: I just saw this sticky at the top of the forum and will try it after a bit of a break and report back.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...sta-ST-TPMS-Sensor-Training-Motorcraft-TPMS19

 

[KKaWing]

To address #3, you can enter programming mode even if you don't drive the 20 minutes.

I find it easiest to point the arrow right to the bottom of the stem, and click the button there. Should give you a honk and tell you to go to the next wheel... driver front > passenger front > passenger rear > driver rear should be the order.

 

[BRGT350]

Did you put the car into TPMS learn mode? I have used the same Tire Rack trigger on dozens of different wheels without a problem. I have had a lazy sensor that needed to be woken up, which is done by driving for 20 minutes and then trying to program it. That only happened once to one sensor. You can usually tell if the sensors are installed because the opposite side of the wheel has a lot of weight installed to get it to balance.

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

^^^ last statement is false about wheel weights. I work in this business and never heard that lol


But yeah make sure the car is in relearn mode

 

[pirite]

^^^ last statement is false about wheel weights. I work in this business and never heard that lol

x2
balanced tires today at work with TPMS in them. neither wheel took more than .75 oz total.

 

[KKaWing]

Hmmm... well just to throw more stuff to see what sticks.

The 6x hazard is just for repositioning sensors for the already programmed sensors (tire rotation). Pretty useless for the FiST as we don't have individual monitoring.

Here is my "procedure" to get it into learn mode:

From ignition off:

Brake > ign. on > off> on > off> on (you're at 5 presses of the start button)
Brake > off > on > off > on > off > on (HONK!!! and that was 6 presses of the start button)
Train front left (HONK!!!), front right (HONK!!!), rear right (HONK!!!), rear left (DOUBLE HONK!!!)

You should be done after that. Needless to say, not something you wanna do at night or early in the morning. Oh and kinda do 1 mississipi between start button presses. Enjoy the weird stink-eyes from the neighbours

 

[Blindeye_03]

It took a few tries this morning but I was able to enter the learn mode and program the TPMS with the tool.

Thanks for the replies! I had intended to do it yesterday late afternoon but fell asleep and it was too late late to have my car honking.

Can I use the tool when I rotate my tires?

 

[BRGT350]

^^^ last statement is false about wheel weights. I work in this business and never heard that lol


But yeah make sure the car is in relearn mode

Umm, how to you counteract the TPMS sensor weight on the wheels? If I add weight to one side of the wheel without any counteracting weight on the opposite side, the wheel will not be in balance. If you balance a wheel without the TPMS sensor and then install the sensor, wouldn't the wheel require additional weight to balance? If you can 100% prove that the addition of the TPMS sensor requires no additional weight added to balance, I will accept that I was wrong. Every wheel that I have with TPMS has more weights placed opposite of the sensor than in other parts of the wheel. I also have had the same set of wheels used with and without TPMS and there has been consistently more weights added to the wheel since the addition of TPMS. It is pretty easy to tell since the marks from the old weight tape was still able to be seen on the wheels.

 

[BRGT350]

It took a few tries this morning but I was able to enter the learn mode and program the TPMS with the tool.

Thanks for the replies! I had intended to do it yesterday late afternoon but fell asleep and it was too late late to have my car honking.

Can I use the tool when I rotate my tires?

You don't need to reprogram the sensors when your rotate the tires. Many cars will provide you the pressure at each tire on a display screen, but the Fiesta doesn't. I have heard rumors of some OBD II add-on systems that will allow you to monitor tire pressure. With those, then you would need to reprogram the sensors when you rotate. To keep the TPMS light off, it just needs to be programmed once. Now, if you use winter tires, those will need to be programmed and then the summer tires reprogrammed when they are installed. My wife's Escape remembers both summer and winter tires, but my ST doesn't.

 

[Blindeye_03]

You don't need to reprogram the sensors when your rotate the tires. Many cars will provide you the pressure at each tire on a display screen, but the Fiesta doesn't. I have heard rumors of some OBD II add-on systems that will allow you to monitor tire pressure. With those, then you would need to reprogram the sensors when you rotate. To keep the TPMS light off, it just needs to be programmed once. Now, if you use winter tires, those will need to be programmed and then the summer tires reprogrammed when they are installed. My wife's Escape remembers both summer and winter tires, but my ST doesn't.

Oh I see so I have to do the same procedure again when it warms up again and I put the summers back on?

So following the procedure in the manual for tire rotation is unnecessary?

 

[BRGT350]

Oh I see so I have to do the same procedure again when it warms up again and I put the summers back on?

So following the procedure in the manual for tire rotation is unnecessary?

yep, same procedure in the spring time. While I am shouldn't say it isn't necessary since the manual suggests it, but I have never reprogrammed tires after rotation. If the light gets triggered, you won't have a way to check which tire it is. You would need to take it to the dealership or have a reader to determine which sensor is saying low pressure. I find it easier to just check the tire pressure with a gauge than go to the dealership and pay them to tell me which tire is low.

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

Sorry I forgot the internet knows everything.


Not the guy who has been doing aftermarket wheels and tires for years. TPMS have nothing to do with wheel weights. It's all tire and wheel. The sensor is a constant in the wheel so the machine knows no different if it has them or not. If you take it off yeah it will make a difference

But if you leave them in but move the tire. Notice the location of weight changes. TPMS is constant, to say you need weight 180 degrees from it is completely false

 

[BRGT350]

Sorry I forgot the internet knows everything.


Not the guy who has been doing aftermarket wheels and tires for years. TPMS have nothing to do with wheel weights. It's all tire and wheel. The sensor is a constant in the wheel so the machine knows no different if it has them or not. If you take it off yeah it will make a difference

But if you leave them in but move the tire. Notice the location of weight changes. TPMS is constant, to say you need weight 180 degrees from it is completely false

Actually, you proved my point. If you remove the sensor, it will make a difference. Therefore, adding the sensor alters the weight needed to balance just as removing the sensor changes the weight. If you have driven on a track or in the winter and get bits of rubber stuck on the inside of the wheel or snow packed in the wheel, it creates a shift in balance. These are extreme cases since the sensor doesn't weigh nearly as much. As an engineer, I used to design lathe tooling that spun at high RPM. Balance was very important to prevent damage to the part or machine. I have also balanced crankshafts, which is a process of removing or adding mass to create balance. Oh, I also balance propellers which also spin and need weight added to counter a heavier blade. While I have never balanced a wheel and tire before, I am very familiar with balancing things that spin. Also spend a great deal of time balancing things that don't spin. To create equilibrium across a beam, mass needs to be balanced. If I add weight forward of the CG and need to maintain the CG location, I need an equal amount of weight added equal distance from the opposite mass or less mass further away or more mass closer. It is force x distance. A TPMS sensor is a mass with gravity acting on it, so it is a force and it is located a distance away from the axis. To maintain balance, equal amount of force is needed opposite of the initial force. Of course, things like variation in the wheel and tire mean that the weights are never exactly the same in terms of what is added to create balance. You would need a perfect wheel and tire that didn't require any weights to balance or a matched wheel and tire in which the lightest part of the wheel is matched to the heaviest part of the tire and those masses were equal. In the end, physics dictates the addition of the sensor mass must be accounted for in order to achieve an equilibrium, which is balance.

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

God. Can't save the world. Whatever you say Batman

 

[BRGT350]

sorry, I am just asking for a counterpoint to prove how my statement was incorrect. If I am wrong, then I am more than happy to accept it. I just don't see where my statement was wrong. Where I could be wrong is on wheels that have been specifically designed for the sensor and have a counterweight already in the surface. I have seen some OEM wheels with this done. If that was the case, the additional weight may not be across from the sensors since the mass has already been added. Due to variation in the wheel and tire, it is not for sure that the weights will be added 180 degrees from the sensor, but in the general area is probably realistic.

 

[Intuit]

For the 2016 Fiesta ST, the method of programming seems to infer that the system monitors each sensor individually, perhaps based upon serial. It just doesn't display that... or really, any specific information for the user. The 2005 Toyota Solara by contrast has TPMS, but with no pressure sensors. It compares rotational differences between wheels over time and will warn with significant differences. (the overall circumference decreases as a tire goes flat; requiring additional rotation over a given distance) The 2012 GMC Terrain does have TPMS sensors but the only reason it requires a relearn with rotation, is *only* due to the fact that it attempts to display pressure information back to the user while linking that reading to a specific wheel. It will still display pressures after rotation, it's just that the pressure will be displayed at the wrong wheel. The pressure recommendations generally aren't significant enough between front and rear to trigger TPMS warnings after a rotation.

I had picked up a set of wheels & tires and following the procedures, the system malfunction indicator would disappear... until well into the next drive. Several weeks later, using the Autel TS401 MaxiTPMS Activation Tool (do NOT buy anything Autel) purchased via Amazon, (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AERMVYC) I found that all four sensors were reading precise temperatures, but zero on the pressure. (a prior owner used sealant?) So I had to purchase a new set of sensors and have them installed.

From the standpoint of physics, BRGT350 makes sense. What HardBoiledEgg & Pirite might be trying to say is, that the sensor + battery weight isn't significant enough to warrant adding weight(s) to counter-balance? Don't know for 100%, but would assume a likelihood that wheel balancing machines from different manufacturers, models, may have different sensitivities for wheel balancing?

 

[pirite]

From the standpoint of physics, BRGT350 makes sense. What HardBoiledEgg & Pirite might be trying to say is, that the sensor + battery weight isn't significant enough to warrant adding weight(s) to counter-balance? Don't know for 100%, but would assume a likelihood that wheel balancing machines from different manufacturers, models, may have different sensitivities for wheel balancing?

Theres a lot that goes into it.
For one, you're adding weight to a point of the wheel that has a hole in it and is lighter than the rest of the wheel. Counter acting out the fact that the sensor has minimal weight to it.
For two, you know those little red and yellow dots on new tires on the side wall? That's where the tire itself has the most weight as for as a balancing point is taken. on cars without sensors you line the red up to the valve stem because that part of the wheel weighs less as mentioned above. The yellow dot is also a marking but red is always the go to (just remember red rules).
So lets think here. If you have sensors in the wheel, they place that mounts the new tire onto the wheel with the red aligned to the valve stem, its meant to be aligned when there is no sensor to make up the weight missing from the hole for the valve stem. Add the sensor, throw lining up the red dot out of the window because the sensor is taking up that extra weight.
Lets also add into does the person balancing the wheel/tire assembly know what they're doing? Did they set the balancer up properly? Ever see a wheel with weights spread out on the wheel, not just in one spot? They don't know what they're doing. Add in even more the brand of tire, the build quality of the tire.

There's just so many different factors into it, but coming from my experiences, the past 8 years in the auto industry, I have not noticed that weights end up across from sensors if the tire is installed properly and the balancer is set up correctly.

Another note, this is just my two cents on the subject.

 

[Intuit]

........... Ever see a wheel with weights spread out on the wheel, not just in one spot? They don't know what they're doing. .................

Both sets of OEM black painted wheels with stock Bridgestones . (they got a sh* ton of weights on'em LoL) I don't mean to imply that there are any gaps between those weights though.

 

[Blindeye_03]

My Rado Grey OEM wheels (I only looked at two of them tonight) have a wheel weight 180 degrees from the valve stem and the other has it 90 degrees from the stem. They dont have sticky weights but have clamp on weights on the inside of the wheel. If I remember to do it ill check the other two wheels.

 

[pirite]

Both sets of OEM black painted wheels with stock Bridgestones . (they got a sh* ton of weights on'em LoL) I don't mean to imply that there are any gaps between those weights though.

let me clarify what i meant there.i was talking about split weights.