In my honest experience, I think there is something that is not being considered here. The Focus is a 2.0 liter engine. The Fiesta is a 1.6 liter engine. the focus has a Different turbo than the Fiesta. While the fiesta system is good, more air is more air. Thus your comments about the 2J are correct, but are correct for all bigger intakes. Some may be hotter than others, and the computer obviously corrects for that. The stock computer is not static in its programming. It is dynamic. This computer is capable of handling 5 lbs of boost without any tuning what so ever and correcting the fuel to match it. THIS IS A FACT NOT FICTION. While the tuners may not want you to know that, it is an absolute fact. I would absolutely expect installing a CAI on a Focus to not show as much of a difference versus installing the same intake on a Fiesta because the Fiesta has a smaller engine. Both are restrictive, but the changes that have to be made to get the same results between the two cars is different using the same intake because of more displacement. In other words, on the Fiesta if you used lets say 3 inch plumbing, on a 1.6 liter, you would need a 3.5" or 4" to get the exact same gains because you have more space to fill. I would expect gains on each setup, with the exact same CAI, but more on the fiesta. This is simple science no guessing here. I am certain with enough research on your part you can come to the same conclusion. I am not trying to disparage you, your just wrong.
What is not being considered here is the tune, not the parts. I keep bringing it up because it's applicable. I see the math you're trying to do and want to support it, but you're just not correct in how the tune works and obviously unaware that the programming uses the same framework between both the FoST and the FiST. And the Mustang. And the Fusion. And the normally-aspirated counterparts. Different functions are turned on or off on some of the different platforms, but the underlying framework is exactly the same.
Anything you do to this engine to make it breathe better, will improve the performance of this engine. Air in, Air out as efficiently as possible without tuning anything and I will prove that as soon as I find a dyno. Now with all of that said, having driven this car for the equivalent of 13 years as the insurance industry says, the average driver drives 12,000 miles a year. I am an expert on how this car felt before any modifications were done and I am telling you that this car is making more power without a tune than it was before anything was upgraded. Now while I may not be an expert on access port yet, I am an expert on HP TUNERS, and know engine management and know what this stock computer can and cannot do own its on. If bolting on a CP-E intake or any other intake for that matter increases horsepower and torque by 1. it is in increase. Is it worth what people are asking? that is for each individual to decide. But even if the computer makes the adjustment on its own because it saw cooler temps, or more air, it made an adjustment to accommodate and thus more power was created.
In theory, I unequivocally agree that more air in should equal more air out, which would be an increase in mass air flow resulting in more fueling and more power. But again, you're not taking into account the tune. You speak towards what the tune 'can and cannot do on its own', but you actually don't know anything about it and I will give you some examples why in a bit. And this doesn't even take into account your statements in other threads towards MAF tuning, despite this being a MAP tuned platform.
I've already shown you a datalog of stage 3 parts on a stage 0 tune, along with some brief tips on what to compare and what's pertinent, in your other thread. Either you understand it and are completely off-base with your thoughts of your own car or you don't understand it and think what you're saying is correct.
One last thing, the be completely fair, the conversation needs to include the aspect of price vs performance. if you are not changing the turbo, and keeping the stock turbo, not going with a cyborg, or the likes, I would surmise the stock intake is adequate. As for the Big Mouth intake. Its a cool piece, and I like having it. I am going with a bigger turbo, so being able to get more air in the car for the turbo is a plus.
And this is exactly what I continually say. If you're on the OEM turbo you can max out it's capabilities with an FMIC, DP/CBE (depending on whom you talk to), and a good custom tune.
If you are going with a bigger turbo, or any turbo including the cyborg, then a CAI with the ability to intake more air than the factory would be recommended.
That's solely dependent on the intake and turbo. @Hijinx has already shown us that an upgraded intake on an upgraded turbo is still a very high cost-per-hp modification that amounts to nearly nothing, but the 2J may have faired a bit better.
With the CP-E and Big Mouth installed, I have better throttle response, and longer turbo spinup holding ability. I don't know what else to call this effect. When I downshift the RPM is holding out longer, so I am not getting the feeling of the jerkiness where the turbo is having to start from scratch. That all sounds dumb but that is the best way I can explain it. I definitely do not feel like I have to justify anything to anyone, but I do feel it is necessary to report my findings for those who might be interested and to dispel those who are just wrong in their assessment.
I'm not going to bag on you for how all of this is worded but I will definitely comment on the fact that I will question your tuning claims above due to it. And there's nothing wrong with reporting your findings (which is something that I highly encourage, recommend, and ask of members), but you have the capability of producing legitimate, objective information yet you don't. You take the one element that can confirm or deny your subjective opinion, exclude it from the conversation, then blame others for being wrong in their assessment.
Basically, you have the ability to prove people wrong but, just like Jeff, would rather not use it and would prefer that we just take you on your word.
Jeff and I are on the same page here as I have said in many other posts. There is something to be said about usable power. making 376 hp on this car is so cool it is dumb crazy. I applaud anyone and everyone that goes there. I would say why not? But that doesn't take away from what Jeff is saying. If I was making 375 in my car, and having to deal with it every day, it would piss me off. The fun in driving this car is being able to fully use all 6 gears pedal to the floor at any given time. That is why I have said that this car, this chassis, something between 250/250 and less than 300/300 is the sweet spot for this car. I am not saying you cant have more, I am saying for real daily drivability (sorry Hijinx, I still love you man), that is it. If I am blowing my tires off in first and second and not hooking up until I hit 3rd, party is already over.
You're not getting 250 whp without a big turbo. Furthermore, the correct BT choice would actually make this car even more drivable because it would eliminate blowing the tires off in low rpm and give more breathing room in the high rpm. Again, this makes sense to those that are already familiar with power curves, tuning, and reading compressor maps.
For Jeff, and the others, 2nd stage is the sweet spot , which is not far from where I am and where I am going at the time. Look at Jeffs numbers, I said 250/250, hes making 200 and 280. The reason for the turbo swap is the factory turbo makes great torque quickly, but cant sustain it because its a smaller turbo. That's what a bigger turbo gives you, it allows you to sustain the power a little longer across the band.
Your guess of 250/250 shows that you are completely unaware of what the OEM turbo can do. Your car isn't going to hit it without a BT upgrade, Jeff's car isn't, mine won't either. What a bigger turbo gives you is more traction (by limiting the low-rpm boost spike), a wider power band, better fuel mileage (if you can stay out of the GO pedal), and the ability to hit 250 whp or more.
I was like you, completely not expecting any of these bolt ons to do anything without a tune and I feel because of the 1.6 displacement of the smaller motor, I have been pleasantly surprised.
Just collect a datalog on the stage 0 tune and post it up. I already posted mine to help show you but I don't think you're going to understand until you see it actually happen on your own car. Like I've told you and others, it's time to get familiar with torque-based tuning because it's significantly more different than what you are thinking.
