The Best High Performance AS Tires

[Jerickson88]

I am failing to see why all seasons are an issue on these cars, because many shipped from Ford with them.

 

[Ford ST]

I am failing to see why all seasons are an issue on these cars, because many shipped from Ford with them.

They are not a issue at all. The car would be more enjoyable/entertaining with a summer tire. Example people will spend gobs of money to do all sorts of mods but they won't upgrade the tire. Engineering explained on YouTube great channel if you haven't seen it did a video or what is the best modification you can ever make to your car the answer tires.

It's not an issue all season tires work in my opinion just fine. Summer tires far superior handling if you can push it hard and I do.



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[danbfree]

Ok, let’s unpack this here.

Temperature is an extremely important consideration to consider when it comes to a tires ability to perform, in fact if you are seeing snow in a large amount the general recommendation isn’t to run a winter tire, it’s to run a studded tire or to use chains. Bare winter tires are for use on clean/wet or lightly snowy asphalt in below 50 degree F temperature ranges. Any driving surface with more than an inch of standing snow and it is strongly recommended to use chains/studded tires. The moment the word ice is in the equation all season tires are simply not up to the task. Ice is a completely different ball game and even the best all season tires are a death sentence at anything over a crawling speed. I’m the end even on non-snowy road conditions once you’re below about 50 degrees a winter tire is preferable to an all season wet or dry. That’s a result of the rubber compounds in the tire and their flexibility at a given temp.

I have the AS 3+ on my car and I absolutely think they are an OK tire. The only reason they are on my car is because they were on the car when i bought it and I can’t bring myself to throw out a usable tire that I already paid for. I think a lot of people are glossing over the fact that all season can do ok but are never as good as a winter tire or summer tire in their respective optimal temperature ranges. Even if the butt dyno doesn’t notice a difference in grip, it’s there because very few of us can actually drive the car at 10 tenths reliably.

So it all comes back to why you bought the car. If you weren’t trying to get as much performance as your dollar could get, why not go with an ST line? Why spend money on an average product if there are better ones available for not much more money? I understand that’s a compromise some are willing to make, but why even ask about it if you know that it inherently is a compromise?

So you just gloss over the fact that for many of us we can use the power without going to the track.... AGAIN, since you just IGNORE the point I made, good all season tires work fine and provide plenty of grip, they haven't let me down, I have NEVER had understeer pushing my car hard in the turns and coming out and hitting the throttle hard on e30/e50 tunes, so to say why not get an ST Line has to be the most mind blowing conceited and ignorant comments I have EVER seen on here. It's flat out insulting and borderline trolling to suggest this. So, yeah I bought the car to enjoy the power and carve up turns, that doesn't mean I need a 10/10 tire for grip, an 8/10 tire is just fine for my needs, thank you very much. You might want to try actually understanding how people use their cars before just hammering down with the tire elitist bashing for those of us who don't track.It's NOT a compromise when we have all the tire we need while also enjoy having the power. If you can't wrap your mind around that, you might just want to stay out of all season tire threads if literally EVERY post from you is some variation of "you are all idiots for buying them", it doesn't help!

I can provide my own example: People will drop thousands and thousands on mods but still keep the factory reflector headlights. To ME, I find it strange why people don't upgrade the headlights as one their first mods, kind of like brakes, if you make a lot more power then you need better brakes... but you also need to be able to see better than the factory headlights that are officially rated as "poor".. BUT I don't just spew elitist crap at people who choose not to, I keep that to myself because that's MY opinion. At a certain point you have to just keep your opinions to yourself. Make your point and move on dude!

 

[danbfree]

I am failing to see why all seasons are an issue on these cars, because many shipped from Ford with them.

I know, I drive hard and I've barely ever even gotten the front tires to squeal in corners at all, they do just fine and can put the power down just fine, IN FACT, the rear end comes around before the front tires give out, that's how this car is supposed to handle, I'm not losing out on anything... but if racing then summer performance tires are obviously better, the ass end may come around a little later, but you can still enjoy this car and it's power, even modified, with all seasons too.

 

[Ford ST]

Can't we all be friends with different opinions?
I have fantastic night vision headlights aren't a concern of mine.
I like summer tires as I feel they are better. I stated my opinion I did no name calling, and no capitalization like I'm yelling at somebody.
Michelin for example long ago didn't want to make an all season tire they wanted to make a winter tire, and a summer tire.
There is zero elitism or snobbery in that statement.

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[DoomsdayMelody]

So you just gloss over the fact that for many of us we can use the power without going to the track.... AGAIN, since you just IGNORE the point I made, good all season tires work fine and provide plenty of grip, they haven't let me down, I have NEVER had understeer pushing my car hard in the turns and coming out and hitting the throttle hard on e30/e50 tunes, so to say why not get an ST Line has to be the most mind blowing conceited and ignorant comments I have EVER seen on here. It's flat out insulting and borderline trolling to suggest this. So, yeah I bought the car to enjoy the power and carve up turns, that doesn't mean I need a 10/10 tire for grip, an 8/10 tire is just fine for my needs, thank you very much. You might want to try actually understanding how people use their cars before just hammering down with the tire elitist bashing for those of us who don't track.It's NOT a compromise when we have all the tire we need while also enjoy having the power. If you can't wrap your mind around that, you might just want to stay out of all season tire threads if literally EVERY post from you is some variation of "you are all idiots for buying them", it doesn't help!

I can provide my own example: People will drop thousands and thousands on mods but still keep the factory reflector headlights. To ME, I find it strange why people don't upgrade the headlights as one their first mods, kind of like brakes, if you make a lot more power then you need better brakes... but you also need to be able to see better than the factory headlights that are officially rated as "poor".. BUT I don't just spew elitist crap at people who choose not to, I keep that to myself because that's MY opinion. At a certain point you have to just keep your opinions to yourself. Make your point and move on dude!

All seasons handle fine but it doesn’t change the fact that if you wanted middling performance you wouldn’t have bought the sport version of the car, I don’t understand how this doesn’t translate. All seasons are middling in performance. Not good. Not bad. Putting all seasons on the car is putting the car in a situation that makes it under-tire’d. If you want to limit performance, for the purpose of saving a couple bucks, that’s fine it’s your car. But again, at that point you may as well not have bought the ST. It’s not intended as a conceited statement, it would be the same as putting a tune on the engine that limits your power so that you can save a bit on fuel. It’s just not the purpose of your car, but you are allowed to do it.

You aren’t going to see understeer with all season tires. The chassis is going to behave at a lower limit with lower grip on each corner just as it would if you had a higher peak grip tire on each corner. So it’ll feel very similar but your limits are going to be lower, and that’s a fact since you aren’t significantly altering the balance of grip ratio on either axle. I’m not telling you not to run all seasons, I’m telling you that it’s a waste and THAT is an opinion.

Additionally, I find it funny that you see importance in upgrading brakes but not tires. We could have 15” rotors with a 4 pot caliper but it wouldn’t significantly improve your ability to stop unless you upgrade the tires. This is, a form of the argument I have been trying to present: tires help with EVERYTHING except top speed. so on a performance car, it doesn’t make sense to me to get something that will limit the performance of the car regardless of how much power or how many handling mods you have. Without the right tire you can’t put down power as efficiently, and you won’t be able to stop as quickly, or carry as much speed through a turn. This is all fact and I’m not trying to sound elitist, I’m countering your argument that all seasons are enough. You believe them to be enough because you are used to the lower limits that the tires provide. Which again, I ask why buy an ST if you are just going to limit it?


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[DoomsdayMelody]

Additionally, this isn’t an elitist argument. Most of the summer tires are cheaper than the AS tire everyone is endorsing: the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3+.

Cheapest I can find them is at my local Costco for about $136 per corner plus taxes and install.

The Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 summer tires that will outperform them in every conceivable way? $99 per corner.

For just the cost of the tires you would be able to buy a Pilot Sport AS 3+ and go buy yourself lunch with the money you save on 4 summer tires, but I suppose that’s elitist to you?


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[Ford ST]

To add to that people are constantly selling wheels for cheap for your colder climate tires. If you don't want to do that you can order yourself a set of steel wheels with cold season tires already mounted from tire rack shipped to your door.
To me that's a win-win chicken dinner.

Like I said before I couldn't care less what y'all do. Just sharing a opinion nothing more.


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[LargeRubberFist]

Just to throw another opinion in the mix since it seems both the summer tire and all season proponents agree on our car not understeering, this does not vibe with my experiences at all.
I'm a rather hamfisted driver and the stock re050a summers will understeer for me all day, it's easy to fix with a bit of lift on the throttle or angle correction in the steering but I've run into plenty of understeer on both concrete and asphalt surfaces. You just have to be a little worse at driving and you can experience it too.
Different driving styles, weather, budgets, and even how we view the car will make the best tire for one of us different from the next. Even if you're considering as narrow a judgment as dry grip in the heat at the expense of all else there is no one best tire option for everyone.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Just to throw another opinion in the mix since it seems both the summer tire and all season proponents agree on our car not understeering, this does not vibe with my experiences at all.
I'm a rather hamfisted driver and the stock re050a summers will understeer for me all day, it's easy to fix with a bit of lift on the throttle or angle correction in the steering but I've run into plenty of understeer on both concrete and asphalt surfaces. You just have to be a little worse at driving and you can experience it too.
Different driving styles, weather, budgets, and even how we view the car will make the best tire for one of us different from the next. Even if you're considering as narrow a judgment as dry grip in the heat at the expense of all else there is no one best tire option for everyone.

This 1000%

As you get familiar with a tire you start to get a feel for how hard you can push it before grip is lost. As a result you kind of get a muscle memory for how hard you can push the car and then from there you can learn to exploit the tire to the peak of its grip. If you get used to all seasons you may decide that it’s enough grip. If you try out summer tires on the same car/chassis setup you’ll never be happy with peak grip on an AS tire ever again. My dad used to refuse to buy anything but the cheapest tires for his F150, he says whatever Chinese brand he buys does fine. I talked him into buying a mid tier tire. Nothing crazy expensive but I convinced him to get some Yokohama Geo-Landers to replace his previous set of Kenda or Ling Long or whatever garbage he had on there and he was beside himself with the difference. Quieter, less vague, and in his words “worlds better in the rain”. I expect the jump in overall stability and grip to be similar going from the Pilot AS3+ to the Firestone Firehawks on this car.


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[Phishy]

For me in ND any All Season wont cut it in the winter up here so snows are a must. I have been on the 2 set system of dedicated snows and summers forever. You pay a bit more up front but get the best of both seasons out of the car.

I still say for a fall road trip with a few possible mountain passes I would run what ya brung and try to avoid the snow, hope for luck, and buy a set of cable chains for relatively cheap vs a full set of compromised tires, mounting balancing etc.

 

[DoomsdayMelody]

Additionally, you could give these a shot: https://autosock.us/

Speed is limited to about 25 mph if memory serves, but that’s about as fast as you’d want to go if you had chains on anyways.


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[averyislost]

As another example, the main reason I went with all seasons is due to mild winters. If it only gets to around 30 degree weather, and snow shuts down the city, there's not much of a reason to have a second dedicated set of winter tires. One week it's 30 degrees here, and the next it could be in the 60's. Good ol' NC weather. Summer tires are not acceptable to me in 30 degree weather, but it's not worth it to have to swap back and forth sets of wheels every two weeks due to temperature fluctuations.

So in my case, I figured a good set of all seasons would provide me the performance I need (no tune, no aftermarket air intake, etc.) while allowing me to not swap wheel sets constantly in winter/spring and still be able to grip the road when it gets to around freezing temperatures (and also not tear up the summer tires quickly).

 

[Ford ST]

I live in North Carolina the Triad. The last set of tires I got for my daily driver were actually all-weather tires, because sometimes I still have to go to work in really bad weather snow, ice ect.
I definitely wouldn't put those tires on the fiesta though unless I had to for a short time. I guess you don't have to go to work in the snow? I live in the country and regular all season tires on the fiesta especially with the torque output nope would not work at all in snow/ice especially on my road.
Oh I see you are in Charlotte not nearly as much snow as we get here.
If it was my daily driver I would have my set of summer tires I currently have, and a separate set of wheels with snow tires due to me having to get to work.
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[Ford ST]

These tires are pretty darn good in the snow and bad weather, but you can still drive them when it's hot out just fine they're meant for it. Now they are not good for high-performance driving though.
I have them for my daily driver.

View: https://youtu.be/mxBQsUq1-bo


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[averyislost]

I live in North Carolina the Triad. The last set of tires I got for my daily driver were actually all-weather tires, because sometimes I still have to go to work in really bad weather snow, ice ect.
I definitely wouldn't put those tires on the fiesta though unless I had to for a short time. I guess you don't have to go to work in the snow? I live in the country and regular all season tires on the fiesta especially with the torque output nope would not work at all in snow/ice especially on my road.
Oh I see you are in Charlotte not nearly as much snow as we get here.
If it was my daily driver I would have my set of summer tires I currently have, and a separate set of wheels with snow tires due to me having to get to work.
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Yeah they don't do the best job about clearing the roads here, so typically they let us work from home as a safety precaution. However, if I need to get in when there is ice/snow on the road I'll take my old 4runner. You're right though, seems like some winter tires are better about being able to drive on warmer roads for those weeks its unseasonably warm.
Either way, it's such a boring drive to work (I'm usually going a max of 35mph) that I'm not really getting the performance out of any tire I'm running. I really need to get out on some backroads more, lol

 

[danbfree]

All seasons handle fine but it doesn’t change the fact that if you wanted middling performance you wouldn’t have bought the sport version of the car, I don’t understand how this doesn’t translate. All seasons are middling in performance. Not good. Not bad. Putting all seasons on the car is putting the car in a situation that makes it under-tire’d. If you want to limit performance, for the purpose of saving a couple bucks, that’s fine it’s your car. But again, at that point you may as well not have bought the ST. It’s not intended as a conceited statement, it would be the same as putting a tune on the engine that limits your power so that you can save a bit on fuel. It’s just not the purpose of your car, but you are allowed to do it.

You aren’t going to see understeer with all season tires. The chassis is going to behave at a lower limit with lower grip on each corner just as it would if you had a higher peak grip tire on each corner. So it’ll feel very similar but your limits are going to be lower, and that’s a fact since you aren’t significantly altering the balance of grip ratio on either axle. I’m not telling you not to run all seasons, I’m telling you that it’s a waste and THAT is an opinion.

Additionally, I find it funny that you see importance in upgrading brakes but not tires. We could have 15” rotors with a 4 pot caliper but it wouldn’t significantly improve your ability to stop unless you upgrade the tires. This is, a form of the argument I have been trying to present: tires help with EVERYTHING except top speed. so on a performance car, it doesn’t make sense to me to get something that will limit the performance of the car regardless of how much power or how many handling mods you have. Without the right tire you can’t put down power as efficiently, and you won’t be able to stop as quickly, or carry as much speed through a turn. This is all fact and I’m not trying to sound elitist, I’m countering your argument that all seasons are enough. You believe them to be enough because you are used to the lower limits that the tires provide. Which again, I ask why buy an ST if you are just going to limit it?

And again, doesn't matter if the tires are slightly limited, the whole entire car is far superior still over some base model... do you buy $400 tires because they are slightly better than $150 tires? We drive a fucking Fiesta, not a god damn Ferrari here, since you apparently don't realize this. Where do we draw that line? Do you have $2000 coilovers? No? well, you're just limiting the car, so why did you buy an ST? Have you bought every brace possible? Should I go on? And just like someone else said, where I like the weather could be 40 one day and 60 the next with very little snow and ice, I would literally be swapping them out constantly. It's just stupid to think that UHP all seasons just *cripple* the car to the point that you think you have to question why we bought an ST. And regardless, if someone is asking *which* all season tire to use, it *is* trolling to continue to just bash on all of us trying to have a conversation about it, you need to learn some forum etiquette. I have had to un-sub from threads when I realized I wasn't welcome any more, happens to all of us.

 

[danbfree]

Can't we all be friends with different opinions?
I have fantastic night vision headlights aren't a concern of mine.
I like summer tires as I feel they are better. I stated my opinion I did no name calling, and no capitalization like I'm yelling at somebody.
Michelin for example long ago didn't want to make an all season tire they wanted to make a winter tire, and a summer tire.
There is zero elitism or snobbery in that statement.

So your eyesight *adds* visibility huh? LOL, wow, I won't even go there but that's fine we all have our priorities, and that helps make my point, I'm not gonna *bash* on for that... but it's been explained to you before man, occasionally capitalized words are for EMPHASIS, every word capitalized is shouting, come on... But now I'm doing those little *stars* just for you, OK? LOL

And no, you didn't name call, you have kept things within check, but for the other guy to say why just buy an ST Line if we run all season's absolutely *is* insulting and elitist.

 

[jfisch822]

You're right that putting performance all season tires on your St is a compromise but it's ridiculous to say you might as well have bought an ST line instead. Buying a Fiesta ST is a compromise in and of itself. It's not a track car, its a sporty hatchback that gets me to work and has fun on twisty roads and isn't out of place at an autocross. It's got room to put crap in the back and a nice enough stereo, AC etc. If true performance was all that mattered then for the same price I could buy something rear wheel drive, put in a cage, track suspension, rip out the interior, and go nuts with the stickiest tire I could find. But that's not the goal for most of us. You talk about compromises but you're compromising performance by hauling around back seats, and a passenger seat, and a spare tire, and a radio, and on and on.

I also come back to the fact that AS3+ last twice as long as my Super Sports did. So if I buy tires half as often i'm saving a significant amount of money, as least a few hundred. I'll happily sacrifice a second or two on my favorite mountain road a few times a year for twice the tread life. But interestingly I never have trouble keeping up with friends in similar cars with summer tires on those days anyway.

 

[MotorboatMcGoat]

I'm new to fun cars, the fist is my first, but I've been riding motorcycles for a decade. Are A/S car tires that big of a compromise? Using A/S on a bike you can drag a knee moving like a bat outta hell with no traction issues, and can outperform the strictly summer tires in the early spring and late fall due to being able to heat up faster in colder temps. I'd think having four tires would give that much more grip, even if the composition has been changed to suit all climates, but I have no clue.

If it is a compromise having a/s vs summer, how much of one? On super tight twisty's do you get understeer? Too much oversteer? Are the sidewalls not up to the task?

I live in UT, so we get temps ranging from below 0°F to around 105°F, & weather is sporadic. Occasionally we'll hit high fifties or low sixties in Dec even though it's snowed a bunch, and then have low teens in March when all the snow's gone. I like to throw around the fist whenever I can, & want to have the best tires for the job during the majority of the year. The G-Force Sport Comp-2's don't do so well in colder temps. Would the A/S's fair better in slightly colder temps, like moto tires?

Maybe the ultimate would be to have summer tires for summer, and roll with some A/S late fall through early spring...