Spring Rates, H&R and Others, STH

[AZSP33D]

Did anyone figure out the actual spring rates for the H&R Sport and Super Sport springs, front and rear? They (H&R) write endless paragraphs on useless specs when all I really care about are the spring specs. :-(

 

[Pablo Pistoffo]

My understanding is that they are progressive springs, and thus have increasing rates as they undergo compression.

 

[AZSP33D]

Progressive springs still have rates and it seems only rear springs are progressive

 

[Scotman2]

No. They don't. If the spring is a variable rate spring. It will not have a specific rate. I can say that if you want a comparison of softer to firmer, it can be said that H&R spring's are available in two variants, Sport and Super Sport. The SS version lowers the vehicle a bit more than the Sport version AND is a slightly firmer riding spring. I think that is what you are looking for. You might want to clearly state what handling or ride quality goal you are trying to achieve. There is a huge number of people here that have done almost every imaginable trick that exists to their Fiesta. The depth of information is impressive!

 

[AZSP33D]

No. They don't. If the spring is a variable rate spring. It will not have a specific rate. I can say that if you want a comparison of softer to firmer, it can be said that H&R spring's are available in two variants, Sport and Super Sport. The SS version lowers the vehicle a bit more than the Sport version AND is a slightly firmer riding spring. I think that is what you are looking for. You might want to clearly state what handling or ride quality goal you are trying to achieve. There is a huge number of people here that have done almost every imaginable trick that exists to their Fiesta. The depth of information is impressive!

I'm not new to this... but anyway, please explain how Eibach can list the progressive rates and H&R can't? If you have such a great depth of information, perhaps list the wire and winding specs? That would be impressive. I can do the math.

 

[Scotman2]

I'm not new to this... but anyway, please explain how Eibach can list the progressive rates and H&R can't? If you have such a great depth of information, perhaps list the wire and winding specs? That would be impressive. I can do the math.

Do you know HOW a spring rate is measured? I have to ask! I guess a range could be stated. But that's not a rate. I'm not trying to be contrary. My experience with the way spring rate is measured is what makes me question this. If linear means one thing and variable means something else. Are we even speaking the same language? Maybe I am confused.

 

[SteveS]

For a progressive spring they give the rate for the soft end of the spring and the stiff end of the spring. It's two numbers.

 

[AZSP33D]

Do you know HOW a spring rate is measured? I have to ask! I guess a range could be stated. But that's not a rate. I'm not trying to be contrary. My experience with the way spring rate is measured is what makes me question this. If linear means one thing and variable means something else. Are we even speaking the same language? Maybe I am confused.

Google it or start your own thread, you can argue with people there.

 

[AZSP33D]

I agree SteveS, and there’s a lot more to it than just a number, but it’s better than nothing. If anyone has rates for the two H&R options available that would be great.

 

[kevinatfms]

Here are some rates ive found:

Stock 2014-2015 rates - 171F/143R
Stock 2016-2019 rates - 154F/131R

Swift - 212F/212R

Eibach - 109-172F/58-143R

Mountune - 181F/144R

Suspension Techniques - 245F/250R Confirmed 288F/144R

Whiteline - 222F/165R

Bilstein B14(S/SE/Titanium) 47-167490 - 274F/228R

Bilstein B14(ST) 47-242043 - 274F/228R(Bilstein confirmed the only difference between the two kits is the front dampers)

Fortune Auto 500 - 392F/196R

ISC Street Kit - 336F/224R

Silvers Neomax - 336F/280R

Yellowspeed Dynamic Pro - 336F/168R

BC Racing BR - 280F/168R

BC Racing DS - 280F/224R

Megan Racing EZII - 280F/224R

Ksport Control Pro - 280F/168R

Meister R Zeta CRD - 280F/168R

HSD Dualtech - 280F/224R

HSD MonoPro "Street Spring" - 280F/224R

HSD MonoPro "Track Spring" - 336F/280R

Ford Racing B-Spec Suspension Kit - M-FR3-FAEB - 450F/500R

Ford Racing Autocross Kit - M-FR3-FAAC - 274F/228R(pretty sure this is the same as B14 kit 47-242043)

Vmaxx Coilover Kit - 180F/209-240R

 

[AZSP33D]

Thanks Kevin... I may play around with different rate springs from different manufacturers. Have the Whiteline currently but may need to soften up the front for 200 wear tires.

 

[kevinatfms]

Thanks Kevin... I may play around with different rate springs from different manufacturers. Have the Whiteline currently but may need to soften up the front for 200 wear tires.

I would not soften the front. The Eibach springs are a good indication as to a terrible design on softening the front. It completely kills the car in any competitive form(extremely soft initial rate that dead ends at factory rate abruptly) and only makes them good for comfort.

Surprisingly for me the Swift springs are about perfect. I thought i would have them be too soft but with the Bilstein B8's they feel very composed. I know everyone keeps saying the Bilstein B6s due to the length of the Swift springs at rest but i have found no issues. 212/212 feels good and isnt jarring. It also lends to a bit of rotation when i want it.

I will say though that i did drive a car with the B-spec suspension kit in a regular Fiesta and the rates were higher(450ish front/550ish rear) and the damn car felt so planted on track. Driving it around to get a burger during lunch hour was brutal on my back though. It makes it even worse that they are not a divorced setup(spring is part of the damper assembly).

 

[texaspaul]

I would not soften the front. The Eibach springs are a good indication as to a terrible design on softening the front. It completely kills the car in any competitive form(extremely soft initial rate that dead ends at factory rate abruptly) and only makes them good for comfort.

Surprisingly for me the Swift springs are about perfect. I thought i would have them be too soft but with the Bilstein B8's they feel very composed. I know everyone keeps saying the Bilstein B6s due to the length of the Swift springs at rest but i have found no issues. 212/212 feels good and isnt jarring. It also lends to a bit of rotation when i want it.

I will say though that i did drive a car with the B-spec suspension kit in a regular Fiesta and the rates were higher(450ish front/550ish rear) and the damn car felt so planted on track. Driving it around to get a burger during lunch hour was brutal on my back though. It makes it even worse that they are not a divorced setup(spring is part of the damper assembly).

For me the next step is a set of Fortune Auto 500's with custom rate up front and try to find a solution for the rear(they still use a divorced setup).

This is great feedback, thanks for putting it out there. Did you run the Swift springs on the stock shocks at all? I'm trying to keep costs low but still find some improvements to be more competitive locally in STH.

Just curious, what do you improvements do you see the Fortune Auto 500s helping with? (I'm relatively a noob, trying to learn what I can!)

 

[kevinatfms]

This is great feedback, thanks for putting it out there. Did you run the Swift springs on the stock shocks at all? I'm trying to keep costs low but still find some improvements to be more competitive locally in STH.

Just curious, what do you improvements do you see the Fortune Auto 500s helping with? (I'm relatively a noob, trying to learn what I can!)

Nope, i went from OE to Eibach springs to Bilstein B8's and Eibach springs. Now im Bilstein B8's with Swift springs since the Eibach was WAY too soft in inital rate. It caused the car to roll significantly more than even the OE springs.

Right now im good with the B8/Swift combo. Car works wonders on track with the 15x7s and 205/50's and if i have to bitch about something its that the initial turn in response is "muffled" with the 15s versus the OE size 17s. My strut/spring combo is not limiting me right now so the plan is to stick with what i have for at least another year.

Fortune Auto 500's have a larger shock body than the Bilstein B8 dampers. Single tube versus twin tube. Are rebuildable locally to me while Bilstein needs to be sent away. They are height adjustable versus just springs. The front rates can easily be changed. The rears are still a divorced setup and use a lowering spring but the rate is already at or over 350lbs/in. So its over 100lbs/in more than my Swift setup right now. The fronts are even higher. But again, im not having trouble right now. The car is compliant but still a capable track/autocross car.

My next move is going from 15's to 16's. I bought some 16x7.5 Konigs on black friday(under $350 shipped) and will pair them up with 215/45 BFG Rivals. Ill still keep my 15's around though but im hoping to get back some turn in feel going up to a 16" wheel. That is my biggest gripe right now - loss of turn in steering.

 

[texaspaul]

Nope, i went from OE to Eibach springs to Bilstein B8's and Eibach springs. Now im Bilstein B8's with Swift springs since the Eibach was WAY too soft in inital rate. It caused the car to roll significantly more than even the OE springs.

Right now im good with the B8/Swift combo. Car works wonders on track with the 15x7s and 205/50's and if i have to bitch about something its that the initial turn in response is "muffled" with the 15s versus the OE size 17s. My strut/spring combo is not limiting me right now so the plan is to stick with what i have for at least another year.

Fortune Auto 500's have a larger shock body than the Bilstein. Single tube versus twin tube. Are rebuildable locally to me while Bilstein needs to be sent away. They are height adjustable versus just springs. The front rates can easily be changed. The rears are still a divorced setup and use a lowering spring but the rate is already at or over 350lbs/in. So its over 100lbs/in more than my Swift setup right now. The fronts are even higher. But again, im not having trouble right now. The car is compliant but still a capable track/autocross car.

My next move is going from 15's to 16's. I bought some 16x7.5 Konigs on black friday(under $350 shipped) and will pair them up with 215/45 BFG Rivals. Ill still keep my 15's around though but im hoping to get back some turn in feel going up to a 16" wheel. That is my biggest gripe right now - loss of turn in steering.

Thanks again for all this info! Hopefully I'm not thread jacking too much, as I'm in the same boat trying to decide on suspension for STH.

I was able to get in touch with the current HS and STH national champ and he told me about YCW Suspension. They are owned by MFactory and actually are forum vendors here! They seem to be made incredibly well and have come highly recommended. Compared to Fortune they seem to compete with the Fortune 510 and but has a special forum pricing offer. They are rebuildable from their California location. Their website kinda sucks, but they have good info here on the forum too. Honestly shocked they aren't more well known.
http://www.ycwsuspension.com/catalog/ycw

 

[kevinatfms]

I updated the spring rates above with some B14 spring rates as i called Bilstein trying to figure out the difference between the 47-167490 and 47-242043 B14 coilover kits. The spring rates are listed the same, the dampers are the same but he said there is some more shock body threading added to the 47-242043 kit that the other one doesnt have.

 

[kevinatfms]

There is a facebook group and in that group is a rep from Fortune Auto. He posted photos of a set of coilovers for the Fiesta ST with new spring rates and damping. They are being tested now by another group member and i assume they will be a more hardcore setup of the Fortune Auto 500's.

If i find out anything else ill post up.

 

[CFRmotorsports]

There is a facebook group and in that group is a rep from Fortune Auto. He posted photos of a set of coilovers for the Fiesta ST with new spring rates and damping. They are being tested now by another group member and i assume they will be a more hardcore setup of the Fortune Auto 500's.

If i find out anything else ill post up.

I can chime in that they are the new a Fortune Auto 510 series. Big upgrade over the 500 series. They have internal blow off valves for hitting curbing and not over gassing the coil, use amsoil fluids with higher heat resistance, you can order them with light weight aluminum rear damper bodies, locking collars and uprgaded low bind heim joints. They are currently being tested to fine tune the dampers and spring rates.

 

[kevinatfms]

I can chime in that they are the new a Fortune Auto 510 series. Big upgrade over the 500 series. They have internal blow off valves for hitting curbing and not over gassing the coil, use amsoil fluids with higher heat resistance, you can order them with light weight aluminum rear damper bodies, locking collars and uprgaded low bind heim joints. They are currently being tested to fine tune the dampers and spring rates.

Nick, i assume? Im on the same ST/RS track page on facespace i believe. Im the one that was asking Devin about a non-divorced setup.

 

[kevinatfms]

Vmaxx coilover rates are as follows:

180lb/in - Front
165lb/in - Rear

So not very much higher than OE springs.