Should I really be launching the FiST?

[FearTheSnail]

Hey guys! Would like to weigh in on this. Upgrade your rear motor mount, and launch that little race car all day long! The rear motor mount is the first part I replaced on both my fiesta and my wife's right as we bought them.

My white car has over 100 passes at the track on the stock clutch, stock trans, and stock axles. The clutch is still holding strong!

 

[Based]

Well really the only reason I was launching my car was to try to get a before and after 0-60 time from when the car was stock to when I have the stratified tune on. I am just gonna do a 20-60 pull in second gear to do performance comparisons. Less stress and less room for driver error.

 

[Truth in Ruin]

^^^ There could be torque limitations in second gear. A 3rd gear pull might be a more accurate measurement.

 

[Truth in Ruin]

HiJinx, you missed the the part of my statement that the CAR was not designed for that......I said nothing about the drive train.

I do not believe any FiST will run an 11.7 on stock tires, suspension, motor mounts....blah, blah, blah! A car that does that will have a long list of mods NOT including the driveline, maybe. I would think they added positraction to the driveline and a racing clutch. Do you really want to promote driving a stock car like that? I think you are doing a disservice to those that interpret your comments to suggest that this is OK to do this on a stock car. How many posts have I seen on broken/new motor mounts just this week? Again, Ford did not design the Fiesta ST CAR as a drag car.

I am all for horsepower when you can use it, but on the mountain roads of East TN my Mountune ST has all the power it takes to scare the &%#$ out of me on some of our no guard rail cliftside curves. And after a 4500 mile trip I can say it also has all the acceleration I need for passing on two-lane highways and cruises nicely at 85. So we all love our FiSTs but we need to keep it real. Winding it up and dropping the clutch on a stock ST is not a good idea for long term reliability.

I think a FiST could run 11.7 with stock suspension. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this cat had stock suspension on his 11.7 run.

 

[Based]

^^^ There could be torque limitations in second gear. A 3rd gear pull might be a more accurate measurement.

Is it ok to floor it when going 20mph in 3rd?

 

[Truth in Ruin]

Start at a higher speed, but do it at the exact same spot, and same day for accuracy.

 

[boyracer]

based, I have a reworked lower engine mount. I took the stock mount and replaced the big end bushing.
...... not sure whether it was at brainerd or airstrip attack in Colorado but my engine shifted on the top mounts. it was banging all over the place. the mount under the battery was loose, the one under the rad fill was missing an ear.
...... both mounts did not fit the holes properly in my mind. big open slots or oversized round ones. I made some changes on hardware, created some shoulder spacers and added some hardened washers. seems to be staying put now.....bob


I just notice your question about flooring it at 20 in third. I am really careful not to floor my car while cruising in any gear if it is not turning at least 3000 rpm. at twenty flooring it would be more appropriate in first or sec gear not third. jmho.

 

[Zormecteon]

Is it ok to floor it when going 20mph in 3rd?

Without going down and diving the car to check, I'll go ahead and reply in ignorance..

Have a look at the tach when doing 20 mph in 3rd gear. If it is above 1500 rpm, you "should" be fine. ..

I arrive at this figure after having tested the upshift light. At the lowest possible throttle opening (that I could do) I watched when that light went on. It was at about 1800 rpm, BUT after the shift the rpms dropped to 1500 every time. This tells me that that is the lowest rpm that Ford considers to be in the engines operating range, and below which they consider it to be lugging...

My 2?

 

[BoostBumps]

ECU (stock) - Upshift Indicator Threshold (for fuel eco) RPM Values (gear vs requested torque)

^^

 

[Zormecteon]

I'm confused.. the graphic says maximum engine speed allowed before upshift light displays. .. .. so in 5th the max is at 6000 rpm? {38 f/lbs}? .. whereas I was talking about the minimum speed you could get the car do display the upshift light. and the resultant rpms after shifting.... still interesting chart... thanx

 

[BoostBumps]

I'm confused.. the graphic says maximum engine speed allowed before upshift light displays. .. .. so in 5th the max is at 6000 rpm? {38 f/lbs}? .. whereas I was talking about the minimum speed you could get the car do display the upshift light. and the resultant rpms after shifting.... still interesting chart... thanx

Those rpms in the table I previously attached are the corresponding set rpm values which when reached will illuminate the upshift indicator light for "optimal" fuel economy based on the current "gear" your in and referenced to "requested torque" where "requested torque" is established in other lookup tables which is derived as a function of "current gear" / "rpm" / "throttle position" / and "load %"....

If you have COBB's AccessTunerRace program all these tables can be modified to suit individual needs....

My apologies for going a bit off topic regarding OP launching topic but since you mentioned upshift indicator rpm thresholds I thought it might be of interest to post some additional info regarding the upshift indicator OE setpoints...

 

[Joker328]

Those rpms in the table I previously attached are the corresponding set rpm values which when reached will illuminate the upshift indicator light for "optimal" fuel economy based on the current "gear" your in and referenced to "requested torque" where "requested torque" is established in other lookup tables which is derived as a function of "current gear" / "rpm" / "throttle position" / and "load %"....

If you have COBB's AccessTunerRace program all these tables can be modified to suit individual needs....

My apologies for going a bit off topic regarding OP launching topic but since you mentioned upshift indicator rpm thresholds I thought it might be of interest to post some additional info regarding the upshift indicator OE setpoints...

Thanks for sharing. That stock table is bonkers if I am reading it right. So if you are in first gear and flooring it (i.e. greater than 215 requested torque), it will tell you to upshift at 1700 RPM? I guess I have just been on Cobb maps for so long I never noticed how absurd it was.

 

[BoostBumps]

Thanks for sharing. That stock table is bonkers if I am reading it right. So if you are in first gear and flooring it (i.e. greater than 215 requested torque), it will tell you to upshift at 1700 RPM? I guess I have just been on Cobb maps for so long I never noticed how absurd it was.

That shift indicator arrow is basically just a visual aid for the driver which illuminates the up-shift arrow once the rpm value in that table is exceeded to tell the driver to shift to achieve optimal mpgs....thats all it is...I set all mine in that table to 7000rpm so I don't have to see that annoying up-shift arrow appear...LOL

 

[neeqness]

Thanks for sharing. That stock table is bonkers if I am reading it right. So if you are in first gear and flooring it (i.e. greater than 215 requested torque), it will tell you to upshift at 1700 RPM? I guess I have just been on Cobb maps for so long I never noticed how absurd it was.

My upshift arrow delays to higher rpms when I'm pushing it. On the other hand, if I'm cruising it in traffic, it comes on earlier than normal too. I think it depends how hard you are driving, but maybe it is a setting and mine just happened to be set like this from the dealer/factory.



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[Zormecteon]

My upshift arrow delays to higher rpms when I'm pushing it. On the other hand, if I'm cruising it in traffic, it comes on earlier than normal too. I think it depends how hard you are driving, but maybe it is a setting and mine just happened to be set like this from the dealer/factory.

Yes, if your are mashing the throttle, the light will come on later. It assumes that you need/want the extra power. Also.... It is more economical to mash the pedal WOT to redline and shift than it is to ease into the pedal to redline, then shift. .. (this will be reflected by the upshift light) BEST is to mash the pedal and shift at 2000 rpms. ... Wide open to redline is even more effecient than easing into it and shifting at 2000 rpm. Road and Track did a really good study of this. All the literature and writings that have been publicized that show you should ease the pedal for best fuel economy are WRONG. .. to get their empirical results they over accelerate for conditions then wind up mashing the brakes... .

Engines are most effecient at wide open throttle (well .. there is the factor of fuel injection which adds richness at WOT so with a FI car 9 [like the FiST] about 2/3 throttle opening) because the intake runners and air intake .. everything is optimized for that condition. To use less is not to optimize power delivery. ... BMW's were used for the testing, and as a result they actually made the 325e to take advantage of what they learned.

 

[Capri to ST]

I'm still breaking the car in at 600 miles, so not going too high in the rev range. I realize the upshift light is trying to maximize gas mileage, but it still seems to come on ridiculously early. I have been driving manuals all my life, and generally like to go high enough in each gear so that the revs don't drop below 2000rpm or so after an upshift.
Just for fun, here are the Recommended Shift Speeds from the ST Supp. Manual:
1-2- 12mph
2-3- 23 "
3-4- 32 "
4-5- 41 "
5-6- 42 "

These seem really low in the higher gears, I think being in 6th at 42 would be lugging the engine. Fifth is kind of the Rodney Dangerfield on this chart, the gear of no respect. It only gets 1 mph.

 

[Zormecteon]

Off topic, .. but while you're breaking in the engine, don't NOT go to redline... .. in other words you should take it all the way up.. ONLY AFTER the car is thoroughly warmed up (15 to 20 minutes of running). If you don't take it all the way during break in, it won't want to go aferwards...

my 2?

 

[FLORIDAST]

Off topic, .. but while you're breaking in the engine, don't NOT go to redline... .. in other words you should take it all the way up.. ONLY AFTER the car is thoroughly warmed up (15 to 20 minutes of running). If you don't take it all the way during break in, it won't want to go aferwards...

my 2?

You just said that during break in to not go to redline and then say if you don't take it to redline it won't want to go afterwards. It's a little confusing.

 

[Zormecteon]

I guess I wasn't clear enough... the car should be taken to redline during the break in period (first 1000 miles) BUT ONLY after the car is thoroughly warmed up.