Schroth Rallye Quick Fit 4 point ASM - not compatible with any HANS?? Is this a new thing?

[maestromaestro]

I bought one of these a couple of years back for the driver side, and wanted to add another one for the passenger side. Upon reading the descriptions on the Schroth page, I found that these are supposedly not compatible with a HANS device. I have used the one that I had with a HANS device, so it's not the question of a fit.

So - firstly, is this a new development (I don't recall seeing it when I bought the first one)?
If so, what is the issue here - why are these "incompatible"??

 

[KKaWing]

Doesn't the quick fit have a fold on one of the shoulder strap that gives way in a crash to twist your torso like a 3 point belt so you don't end up in the footwell? Maybe that is why its not compatible with hans as your shoulder straps no longer strap down the shoulder portion of the hans device at all times?

 

[maestromaestro]

Doesn't the quick fit have a fold on one of the shoulder strap that gives way in a crash to twist your torso like a 3 point belt so you don't end up in the footwell? Maybe that is why its not compatible with hans as your shoulder straps no longer strap down the shoulder portion of the hans device at all times?

I have no idea. I am also curious if this warning has always been there or this is a new development. The BF sales have a deal on another 4 point harness, but it requires bolting rather than seatbelt clips the Rallye uses (I think).

Maybe the clips is what makes it incompatible? That is the clips aren't going to hold you in as much as the harness?

It may also a matter of "speed rating" - if you are in a harness and a HANS device, you are likely to be traveling at a higher speed? I may be reaching here...

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[Plainrt]

I have bolt in version and when not used the rear section folds up nice in crack of rear seat and front part under front seat out of site. Simple install also.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Maybe they feel it is not safe to be using a HANS device with a NON-FIA/SFI approved, not a center cam/latch and link type harness?

(IF you're going fast enough to need a HANS, possibly they think that you should have a FULL 5/6 point, wider strap, totally FIA homologated harness? )

 

[maestromaestro]

I really would like to understand what's behind this. They are not obligated to sell FIA rated harnesses, and they do say that the 4 point ASM one is for "track days".

I mean - they make the point to say that you don't need to be concerned about sliding underneath, so - what's the concern about the incompatibility?

As I said, it's not the matter of a fit - the belts work fine with a HANS 20 one I have.

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[M-Sport fan]

I would call up/email HMS Motorsport (www.hmsmotorsport.com/1(800) 884-2358), and ask them for an explanation (they are avid Bimmer open trackers/pro road racers in multiple series, and Schroth's most major USA distributor).

Or call Schroth USA in Florida, directly, and ask their tech dept. (1 (954) 784-3178) for any technical safety rationales for their no HANS use with these belts text.

 

[maestromaestro]

I would call up/email HMS Motorsport (www.hmsmotorsport.com/1(800) 884-2358), and ask them for an explanation (they are avid Bimmer open trackers/pro road racers in multiple series, and Schroth's most major USA distributor).

Or call Schroth USA in Florida, directly, and ask their tech dept. (1 (954) 784-3178) for any technical safety rationales for their no HANS use with these belts text.

Thanks - will ping them. I have a nagging suspicion that this is a new disclaimer; I would have paused on buying the one I did if something like that came into view.

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[Spacegary]

The HANS Device uses the forces generated by the shoulder straps to hold the device in place during an impact. The ASM belt system uses a partially sewn area in one shoulder strap that releases during an impact so the occupant will rotate down and away from other parts (steering wheel, roof etc.) that may injure you. Therefore the ASM cannot be used with HANS because releasing the force on one shoulder belt also stops the HANS being held in its correct position. ASM has always worked this way, it's not new.
CAVEAT: I work for HANS Performance Products. You can contact me directly at info (at) hansdevice (dot) com. Gary Milgrom, VP. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^There you go!

It seems it was an oversight on Schroth's part to NOT have had that disclaimer right from the very start/existence of possible HANS devices being used in conjunction with their harnesses.

I wonder if someone from HANS actually caught the potential problems and alerted Schroth about it, prompting the additional warning in the product description text.

 

[maestromaestro]

Well, it's a bummer, that's what it is. The bottom line is that the Schroth ASM harness is no better than the 3-point basic belt, it would appear.

So, it's pointless to have this one installed - beyond, I suppose, achieving a more "belted-in" sensation and have your butt receive more messages from the car's chassis.

Disappointing.

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[Woods247]

I bought one of these a couple of years back for the driver side, and wanted to add another one for the passenger side. Upon reading the descriptions on the Schroth page, I found that these are supposedly not compatible with a HANS device. I have used the one that I had with a HANS device, so it's not the question of a fit.

So - firstly, is this a new development (I don't recall seeing it when I bought the first one)?
If so, what is the issue here - why are these "incompatible"??

There are two versions. I use the QuickFit Pro and it is definitely compatible with a HANS. I had the less expensive version before and it doesn’t work with a HANS because the lap belt is too wide. Check their website. The Pro’s shoulder straps pull diagonally inward which supports the HANS. It also has anti-sub technology.

FYI, every time someone posts anything about a Schroth QF harness on the internet, people with no experience or knowledge of it will start shitting fear everywhere. Just ignore it and do your research. If you’re still uncomfortable with it, buy a Simpson Hybrid S. They work with 3 points and cost around $1000. You can also use a CG-Lock on your seatbelt to keep your hips stable. You’ll still have to hold your upper body stable with your arms but the CG-Lock is better than nothing.

 

[Woods247]

Well, it's a bummer, that's what it is. The bottom line is that the Schroth ASM harness is no better than the 3-point basic belt, it would appear.

So, it's pointless to have this one installed - beyond, I suppose, achieving a more "belted-in" sensation and have your butt receive more messages from the car's chassis.

Disappointing.

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I kind of disagree, however I won’t go on track anymore without a HANS. With a harness, I experience far less fatigue and I’m more focused on inputs and less distracted by maintaining body position. A harness makes me more consistent, comfortable and confident.

 

[maestromaestro]

There are two versions. I use the QuickFit Pro and it is definitely compatible with a HANS. I had the less expensive version before and it doesn’t work with a HANS because the lap belt is too wide. Check their website. The Pro’s shoulder straps pull diagonally inward which supports the HANS. It also has anti-sub technology.

FYI, every time someone posts anything about a Schroth QF harness on the internet, people with no experience or knowledge of it will start shitting fear everywhere. Just ignore it and do your research. If you’re still uncomfortable with it, buy a Simpson Hybrid S. They work with 3 points and cost around $1000. You can also use a CG-Lock on your seatbelt to keep your hips stable. You’ll still have to hold your upper body stable with your arms but the CG-Lock is better than nothing.

The QF ASM harness belt is not "too wide" - it works fine with a HANS device, as I noted. The argument brought forth, if you noticed, is that the QF ASM harness is apparently designed to "break" to create body rotation. This clearly defeats the purpose of having a HANS device. And, many clubs demand that if you go with a harness, a "HANS" device is a must. Now, the Simpson Hybrid is a different animal from a "HANS" design, and it should be fine (as it is OK for a 3-point belt), but, given that I already have a HANS 20, I'd rather replace the QF harness with a one that is meant to work with a head and neck safety device.

I do have a CG lock - which I use for daily driving. I do want a harness for a track tho.

 

[Woods247]

The QF ASM harness belt is not "too wide" - it works fine with a HANS device, as I noted. The argument brought forth, if you noticed, is that the QF ASM harness is apparently designed to "break" to create body rotation. This clearly defeats the purpose of having a HANS device. And, many clubs demand that if you go with a harness, a "HANS" device is a must. Now, the Simpson Hybrid is a different animal from a "HANS" design, and it should be fine (as it is OK for a 3-point belt), but, given that I already have a HANS 20, I'd rather replace the QF harness with a one that is meant to work with a head and neck safety device.

I do have a CG lock - which I use for daily driving. I do want a harness for a track tho.

Okay cool. https://www.schrothracing.com/products/quickfit#3317

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^That, or just go with one of their Competition setups purposely made for HANS use, since so many say that using ANY harness without a full cage/seat back brace setup is a dangerous proposition anyway (I am NOT saying that I fully agree with that, Woods 247 ).

 

[Woods247]

The QF ASM harness belt is not "too wide" - it works fine with a HANS device, as I noted. The argument brought forth, if you noticed, is that the QF ASM harness is apparently designed to "break" to create body rotation. This clearly defeats the purpose of having a HANS device. And, many clubs demand that if you go with a harness, a "HANS" device is a must. Now, the Simpson Hybrid is a different animal from a "HANS" design, and it should be fine (as it is OK for a 3-point belt), but, given that I already have a HANS 20, I'd rather replace the QF harness with a one that is meant to work with a head and neck safety device.

I do have a CG lock - which I use for daily driving. I do want a harness for a track tho.

The ASM Lapbelt is too wide dude. Not the actual material, the section between the harness belts.. Read their website. I really am trying to help you haha. Just click the link above to the Pro, then look at the ASM.

 

[Woods247]

^^^That, or just go with one of their Competition setups purposely made for HANS use, since so many say that using ANY harness without a full cage/seat back brace setup is a dangerous proposition anyway (I am NOT saying that I fully agree with that, Woods 247 ).

Please post data that proves them wrong. I really want to know if the QF Pro is more dangerous in an accident than a 3-point with a helmet and no HANS. I am buying a Hybrid S for instructing, so I could use it while driving as well, but I’m not convinced the QF Pro will injure me and I appreciate the stability it provides. If you have links to documented cases where a Scroth harnesses caused a driver physical damage, please share them. I cannot find anything reputable.

I know text can be misinterpreted. Please know that I’m serious. I’m not trying to be an ass. I just want an end to this debate and you seem knowledgeable. Thank you.

 

[M-Sport fan]

No actual data points, but I hear this from many car prep people/fabricators, NOT about those QF Pro belts specifically, but just about using ANY type of harness in a car not equipped with at least a semi-cage, if not a full, multi-point certified cage, used at high speeds on a track, even if the 'tail strap' brackets/plates are properly mounted at the less than 45* angle required to prevent spinal compression in an 'incident'.

Now, this could all be bogus, and it might just be that these prep companies and fabricators want everyone to hand them many thousands of bucks for a fully built cage, and shell seats/mounts/back braces/etc. (I am asking this SERIOUSLY, and without ANY snideness, or snark whatsoever.)

Of course, these same prep/fabricators also do not care that the car becomes NOT street legal/usable at that point either.

Look, I am STILL trying to determine, and decide if even using one piece, composite material, shell racing seats in a street driven car with the factory 3 points, without ANY type of back bracing at all, is actually unsafe/deadly in a street accident or not (and I don't mean because of getting rid of the seat air bag either).

 

[maestromaestro]

Alrighty then

The ASM Lapbelt is too wide dude. Not the actual material, the section between the harness belts.. Read their website. I really am trying to help you haha. Just click the link above to the Pro, then look at the ASM.

Even though it has become a moot point given the built in “weak link” in th e QF ASM harness, which is what makes it incompatible with the HANS, I’d like to understand the “too wide” issue with the lap belt. Either side is adjustable, and I am curious as to what the beef is - is it because it has a lap belt clasp rather than a 4/5/6 point harness hub?