SCCA STX Legal tune

[awwwww_shift]

Are you running the 215/45x17? I wish that the RE-71R's where available in shorter sizes...

depends on the course. I have square 205/50-16's on some sparco asettas, and a pair of 215/45-17's for those longer courses(on some kosei wheels). I've noticed that short gearing doesn't hurt me, it's getting to the limiter in 2nd that hurts me. taller is your friend.

Keep in mind, I'm still in HS. I'm planning on making the jump to stx after a season or 2, and i'm starting to collect parts to do so. But, for the sake of conversation, everything I reference, is in the context of HS SCCA autox. fwiw

 

[M-Sport fan]

also, don't get your hopes up, as they have never been a leading tire in any street tire class. they're good at a lot of things, but they tend to get greezy when overworked. I'll stick with my re-71's or rs-4's...

^^^I'm guessing this is directed at Jeff (and others autocrossing), since I would be using them for STREET duty only, and wanted a wider tire (albeit possibly too TALL once the car is lowered at all) on the ST, and am NOT worried about having the 'latest and greatest' ultimate compound, cone dodging rubber on the car.

That being said, IF B-stone or Hankook, made those in a 215/40-17, (or even a 'unicorn' 225/40-17 size), I would use them as well as long as they were not too much narrower in tread width than the Star Specs/RSR RRs, since that means more to me right now than a stickier compound does.

 

[Cligedy]

OTS but not custom? That's a little arbitrary, even for the SCCA.

Custom tunes would be OK too. The difference is that right now only custom works for boosted cars since any OTS tune fiddles with boost.

...also, don't get your hopes up, as they have never been a leading tire in any street tire class.

My only national trophy was on Z2s. They are not better than the Bridgestones, but they are good.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

The issue here is that if you are not breaking the rules you are at least bending them with a tune. There are many tables that deal with boost directly and indirectly. And it's not just boost, it's load and torque targets. So for example you can bump up the torque targets and leave boost limits the same as OEM. This will give you a performance increase by raising boost but staying within the pressure limits in the OEM map. Those pressure limits are there for extreme conditions such as running on a very hot day.

So you can see, raising torque targets while not touching a "boost" table will still result in higher performance and it will result in the car running more boost more of the time to achieve those torque targets.

Does that break the rules?

 

[Cligedy]

The rules state:
These allowances also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly prohibited.

To me that says that if the boost table is untouched, then indirect boost changes are ok. But because I don't have a full understanding of the ECU, I want the feedback of people more knowledgeable than me.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, if I can get a redline bump and legally remove the 2nd gear torque reduction I'd probably call that good enough.

 

[awwwww_shift]

^^^I'm guessing this is directed at Jeff (and others autocrossing), since I would be using them for STREET duty only, and wanted a wider tire (albeit possibly too TALL once the car is lowered at all) on the ST, and am NOT worried about having the 'latest and greatest' ultimate compound, cone dodging rubber on the car.

That being said, IF B-stone or Hankook, made those in a 215/40-17, (or even a 'unicorn' 225/40-17 size), I would use them as well as long as they were not too much narrower in tread width than the Star Specs/RSR RRs, since that means more to me right now than a stickier compound does.

IF you're not concerned with a STICKY tire, then why bother with something that will wear out quicker. For a daily driven tire, the indy 500 or a potenza s-04 will do just fine. Concern yourself LESS with the PERFORMANCE of the tire, and MORE about the LOOKS, since that's what you're obviously after....

 

[M-Sport fan]

IF you're not concerned with a STICKY tire, then why bother with something that will wear out quicker. For a daily driven tire, the indy 500 or a potenza s-04 will do just fine. Concern yourself LESS with the PERFORMANCE of the tire, and MORE about the LOOKS, since that's what you're obviously after....

Because those are NOT made in the SIZES I want (215/40-17, NOT a 215/45-17! <-).
(IF I were willing to go to a 45 series, it would be the Pilot Super Sports anyway.)

Before you throw the S.Drive/PS31/etc. out there as an alternative, I just cannot stand the tread pattern aesthetics on those, (reminds me of a mild, pedestrian, all season tire), and most of them have a narrower tread width than either the Star Specs or the max performance Federal offerings.

The Neo Gen (since that is what you will suggest next in line) IS an all season tire, which I will use for an 'in-between' (cold DRY winter use) option on the factory wheels when the Pilot Sport AS/3s wear out.

I still want a MAX/EXTREME performance, PURE summer tire on my 1.2s, it just does NOT have to be the ultimate, optimized, 'go-to' Nationals winning autocross setup.

I did not see it written in ANY rules or laws anywhere that one MUST DO autocrossing/open tracking ONLY when using a 140-200 tread wear tire (IF I am ready, willing, and able to deal with the accelerated tread wear).
SO WHY NOT have BOTH performance AND "looks"??

 

[awwwww_shift]

Because those are NOT made in the SIZES I want (215/40-17, NOT a 215/45-17! <-).
(IF I were willing to go to a 45 series, it would be the Pilot Super Sports anyway.)

Before you throw the S.Drive/PS31/etc. out there as an alternative, I just cannot stand the tread pattern aesthetics on those, (reminds me of a mild, pedestrian, all season tire), and most of them have a narrower tread width than either the Star Specs or the max performance Federal offerings.

The Neo Gen (since that is what you will suggest next in line) IS an all season tire, which I will use for an 'in-between' (cold DRY winter use) option on the factory wheels when the Pilot Sport AS/3s wear out.

I still want a MAX/EXTREME performance, PURE summer tire on my 1.2s, it just does NOT have to be the ultimate, optimized, 'go-to' Nationals winning autocross setup.

I did not see it written in ANY rules or laws anywhere that one MUST DO autocrossing/open tracking ONLY when using a 140-200 tread wear tire (IF I am ready, willing, and able to deal with the accelerated tread wear).
SO WHY NOT have BOTH performance AND "looks"??

I think you're getting ahead of yourself a bit on the tire research. I've driven and ridden in many cars on some "less-than-super-ultra-uber-high-performance-summer-only-or-you-die" tires and have been pleasantly surprised on overall grip levels.

My advice, and this is coming from someone who sold and installed tires for a living for almost a decade. Ask yourself what you plan on doing 75-80% of the time with the car, then whatever fills the rest to 100% is just fluff. I used to daily AD-08's, RE-11's, RE-01R's, Falken 215's, 615's, a brief stint on some r888's, nt01's.... you wear out the funnest part of the tire before you can use it. And you wind up wasting a lot of money on tires that you don't need to.

If all you're worried about is looks, then have at and buy the most pointless tire for what you're doing with it. But if you're actually considering what the purpose of your car is(99% road use), then do yourself, your bank account, and the people that are trying to steer you in the best direction possible, that favor, and don't worry about having "the tire"....

 

[Kazz]

Random STX question: are aftermarket intercoolers, shifter bushings and plates legal?

 

[Plainrt]

Intercoolers no shifter stuff yes.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

The rules state:
These allowances also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly prohibited.

To me that says that if the boost table is untouched, then indirect boost changes are ok. But because I don't have a full understanding of the ECU, I want the feedback of people more knowledgeable than me.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, if I can get a redline bump and legally remove the 2nd gear torque reduction I'd probably call that good enough.

No modern car has a "boost" table so it is not so simpler. There are 10s of tables that control torque and the torque is primarily generated via boost from the turbocharger. So if I was to take that word for word it would mean free range. I am guessing that is not what they intend and the language is just simplified.

 

[Cligedy]

The language worked better 10 years ago. That's why the SCCA has proposed changing it and opening up boost adjustments for next year. I'm trying to figure out what is permissible now. If you tell me almost nothing, I can accept that, but I had to ask.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I think you're getting ahead of yourself a bit on the tire research. I've driven and ridden in many cars on some "less-than-super-ultra-uber-high-performance-summer-only-or-you-die" tires and have been pleasantly surprised on overall grip levels.

My advice, and this is coming from someone who sold and installed tires for a living for almost a decade. Ask yourself what you plan on doing 75-80% of the time with the car, then whatever fills the rest to 100% is just fluff. I used to daily AD-08's, RE-11's, RE-01R's, Falken 215's, 615's, a brief stint on some r888's, nt01's.... you wear out the funnest part of the tire before you can use it. And you wind up wasting a lot of money on tires that you don't need to.

If all you're worried about is looks, then have at and buy the most pointless tire for what you're doing with it. But if you're actually considering what the purpose of your car is(99% road use), then do yourself, your bank account, and the people that are trying to steer you in the best direction possible, that favor, and don't worry about having "the tire"....

About the only tire available in the size I want/need, and which also meets YOUR 'guidelines', is the 595 Evo, at 240 tread wear, and IS a full 8" wide at the tread.

IF it is available when I take delivery of my TD 1.2s, I will definitely consider them.

I have also driven around on the streets with 100 tread wear donuts as well (you're not the ONLY one with any experience, despite working as an installer), Nitto NT-555R2s, AND Toyo RA1s, on a MUCH more powerful, heavier, MUCH harder on (larger than the FiST's, and therefore more expensive) tires than all but the most modded of these cars could ever be, RWD car, so I DO know just what is involved.

 

[Cligedy]

Hey guys, can we try to stick to autocross tunes here? There are better places to debate tires. Thanks all.

 

[awwwww_shift]

Hey guys, can we try to stick to autocross tunes here? There are better places to debate tires. Thanks all.

I agree. M-sport needs to stop clogging up threads with his hopes and dreams for his over-thought dreams....

I'm all for finding a way to get a STX tune, but without knowing what tables are available in the accessport, and what tables directly effect boost levels(and which ones dont "directly" effect them), I'm waiting for someone more versed in the tables than I.

 

[Cligedy]

Re-reading your response, are you saying that your ecoboost tunes do not directly alter boost targets for engine operation?

 

[Kazz]

Intercoolers no shifter stuff yes.

Thank you and thanks to all for indulging the question!

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Re-reading your response, are you saying that your ecoboost tunes do not directly alter boost targets for engine operation?

I am saying that modern ECUs target torque. This results in a boost target but boost targeting is not direct.